[Arne Moe]

in reply to: Coaching app #20753

You might want to check out “Coach’s Eye.” Available for all OS’s. Best $5 I ever spent for my coaching activities.

Arne

[Arne Moe]

in reply to: Bow Tiller #30773

You don’t say what point weight you are using BUT 2219s are really stiff shafts. IF it were me, I’d be experimenting with 2117s.

Arne

[Arne Moe]

in reply to: Apr/May TBM ? #24320

Thanks Robin. Email sent to TJ.

Arne

[Arne Moe]

in reply to: Apr/May TBM ? #24228

Thanks Wexbow. Think I looked everywhere but there:oops:

Arne

[Arne Moe]

in reply to: Trimming tab #37085

Alex, Patience grasshopper!:D

Getting a relaxed finger release is not a one trip to the range thing. It will take some practice and dedication. Your observation is correct, NO human can physically open their hand fast enough to get out of the way of the string!! That is why good shots allow the string to do the work because it CAN flip the fingers out of the way fast enough IF there is no tension in the fingers. Here are some thoughts to try.

First, just take your strung bow and sit down in a comfortable chair. Now take a good hook on the string with your fingers and pull the string back a couple inches. Now look at your hand and mentally relax that hand and watch as the string pushes (flips) the fingers out of the way. You will feel kind of a dull thump in your fingers when you do it right and the string will not scrape along your finger tips. And, IF relaxed, the fingers will still be pretty much curled after the string is gone, like they were when you first made the hook.

Do this frequently over several days!! Get that feel. I demonstrate this in the “release tips” video a little.

Next, when you go to shoot, remember that feel and the thought of relaxing your fingers. Even do the short draw practice a few times before shooting to refresh your memory. Now, when you get to full draw & anchor, as you start to relax your fingers, you must also expand. Expanding is done by just sticking your chest out a little. This is more of a thought movement than a visible movement. Actually, sticking your chest (upper sternum) out a little causes your string side shoulder to pull back a little.

Notice the use of the word “little!” This motion is more felt than seen — important not to make it too large!

This expansion movement is what keeps your hand from moving forward as you relax your fingers. What you will encounter is the combination of two motions. First is the increasing back tension caused by expansion and the second is the relaxing of the fingers/hand. It takes practice to relax one thing (the hand) and increase tension in another (the back). This is not learned in a day. It will take some weeks!!

It’s hard to explain in the written word and it always seems more complicated than it is when you have to read (or write) it out. Check out the videos again for ideas and suggestions on this stuff, you may find visual information that “clicks” for you after reading this.

Hang in there it CAN be done; and keep us posted on progress and questions.

Arne

[Arne Moe]

in reply to: Newbie with an Arrow Question #36251

Ya, I’d say 2117 is pretty stiff for your set up, BUT you can still shoot them. They will probably slap the riser, and fly a little weird but they will still group when you shoot consistently. Not sure what your nock problem is but worst case, you can take a strong knife and cut them off and then glue new ones on. The taper (swagged) end where the nock goes is pretty strong so cutting off the nocks will not hurt the shafts. Just kind of “carve” them off.

Arne

[Arne Moe]

in reply to: Newbie with an Arrow Question #35946

Kellen,

What are the aluminum arrows?? Spine, number, length? What is your bow’s weight & your draw length?

I wouldn’t toss the aluminums yet. Even pretty miss matched arrows can be shot and you can get good groups with them. The groups MIGHT be off the bull’s eye but they will group IF you do your part. That is the time you can start to really tune. Trad shooting and tuning is just the opposite of C bow shooting and tuning.

With trad, just get arrows that are close to what you need and shoot until you are grouping (nearly ANY arrow will do for this). THEN you will start to know when to tune for real. In the beginning, you cannot know if the arrow flight and impact point is because of tune OR form consistency. GET YOUR FORM FIRST!!!!

If you are chasing “tune” without knowing if it is you or the equipment, you will just drive yourself crazy and have nothing to show for it.

Arne

[Arne Moe]

in reply to: Trimming tab #34421

Alex,

It sounds like your grip is OK but would have to see a picture to be sure. If you like it then that is what you should use. I do have some pictures posed on a thread in a different forum but don’t know it that is allowed here. If you’d like to see them, PM me and I’ll tell you how to find them.

Many self taught trad shooters “think” that you want that string as far out toward the tips of your fingers as possible. On the surface, it would “seem” to make sense. In reality though (very counter intuitive!) getting that string back in the first joints of your fingers actually gives you a stronger hook AND the ability to relax your fingers for a much cleaner release. The string “flips” the fingers out of the way much faster than you can ever just “open” them. It also allows you to have a totally relaxed string wrist and forearm. In order to hold a “finger tip” hook, you have so much tension in your hand that you cannot get a good release. One of the videos, “Release tips” shows this and explains it and it might help you “discover” a cleaner release.

I’m here to “have my ear bent.” :D:D:D

Arne

[Arne Moe]

in reply to: Trimming tab #34327

Thanks David. When your fingers start to “burn” it usually is because you are allowing tension back into your hand and wrist and this causes the string to “roll” forward (towards the finger tips) before you release. Try to keep the string in or slightly behind the first joints and keep it there. Then when you relax the fingers, the string simply “pops” the fingers out of the way and — no more “burn.”

It has been a while since I did a video, if anyone wants something on an area of shooting form, I’m open to suggestions.

Arne

[Arne Moe]

in reply to: Trimming tab #33776

Really depends on your release and how relaxed your fingers are. Take your tab and hook the string, and pull it back a few inches. Your tab should be about 1/4 to 3/8 inch SHORT of the tips of your fingers.

If you are getting “finger burn” or have calluses built up then your release technique needs work but that won’t affect the length of the tab.

Arne

[Arne Moe]

in reply to: About to give up. #33767

“I shoot 70 pounds with a compound so I haven’t over-bowed myself.”

UH, YES YOU HAVE! Your are used to pulling through 70# and then holding what(?) 15#? You are now trying to pull a bow that gradually builds up to 45#. That’s about 3 times the holding weight you are used to.

You also mention that you have “spent” a lot of money trying to figure this out. Again, that is a “compound” mentality. I AM NOT bad mouthing C bows!! BUT when you are shooting traditional equipment, you cannot buy results! It is FORM, FORM, FORM!!!! Learning correct alignments is a fairly lengthy process and takes some amount of dedication. C bows give you alignments with peeps, sights, and a mechanical release.

Traditional REQUIRES you to learn alignments without outside aides. Here is what I mean, if you came to me to learn to shoot a recurve or longbow, we’d start with a rubber band pulling about 8#. You would learn the correct motions and techniques to draw, anchor, release and follow through with the rubber band. Once you had that, we’d probably go to a 15# bow and do the same while shooting arrows. Learning the “FEEL” required. All shooting at his time would be at a target butt about 4 feet in front of you. NOT trying to hit a target (bull’s eye) just using it to catch the arrows.

Then, once you “got” that, you could start to shoot at a target but at maybe 5 yards. this is when you will

START to develop a feel for instinctive shooting. As you gain proficiency, we would move the target slowly out, a couple yards at a time.

Starting to get the idea? There is no “magic” in “instinctive” shooting, just hard work AND going at it correctly. Frankly, it doesn’t, hasn’t ever, and never will be a “just pick up the bow and look at the spot, shoot and hit.”

This isn’t as hard as I probably have made it look. But just expecting results too quickly will lead to your self proclaimed frustration. Can you learn on a 45# bow? Certainly! I suggest though that there are easier and safer ways to learn and most likely less frustrating too.

Arne

[Arne Moe]

in reply to: New to bow hunting… entirely #22101

If done correctly, archery should NEVER cause pain! Nature’s way of saying “don’t do that!” NO pain ANYWHERE!! Fingers, arms, shoulders, torso, etc = NO PAIN.

Pain is caused be many things but a couple are too much bow weight and poor form execution. These are the most common.

You see many folks trying to prevent pain by using thicker gloves/tabs, short drawing, snap release to name a few. 99% of these are better fixed by getting the shooter shooting more correctly.

Archery is NOT a strength sport, it is not an aiming sport; IT IS a FORM sport!

FWIW

Arne

[Arne Moe]

in reply to: New to bow hunting… entirely #22072

Matthew,

Yep! 15-20# Here’s why. To really learn the mechanics of the shot, a person will “get it” faster if they are not struggling with bow weight. It also allows them to explore themselves and find areas that can be relaxed because that is not needed for the shot. They also can learn and find the arm/shoulder/torso movements that lead to efficient execution. Just because a person CAN pull a heavy bow does not mean that that is the way to learn.

Many shooters start with heavier bows (sure some are successful) and they frequently get so much of their body very tense just pulling the bow back that they can’t relax any part of it.

We frequently read or hear someone say, “I can only shoot a XX# bow because any lighter and my release gets bad. I submit that it is not the release that is bad, but that that person learned with a very tense string arm, forearm, wrist and hand. So the heavier weight bow “rips” the string out of their hand. It certainly DOES mask errors in shot execution.

On a light bow you can learn to relax that entire string arm all the way out to the string hook. Then learn to get back tension holding the weight of the bow. Then with that relaxed arm they can get perfect relaxed hand releases. Tension in ANY part of the string arm make the release harder to execute than it needs to be.

After getting this down on a light bow it becomes

much easier to move back up in weight and the good execution follows you. It is just VERY hard (nearly impossible) to learn this initially on a heavy bow.

Arne

[Arne Moe]

in reply to: New to bow hunting… entirely #20262

I see that dwyattcarlile the OP, hasn’t posted since the end of July. I do agree that archery is meant to be fun and to have fun with!

Now, here is the spoiler. For a newcomer to archery he will (probably) not have fun nor will he be successful starting with a 65# bow. Even a 45# bow is too much to START with! If he or anyone else came to me for coaching, they would START with 15-20# and learn a correct draw sequence that will lead to success AND more importantly REDUCE the risk of injury.

It would be interesting to know if the lack of any followup posts from dwyattcarlile are because he lost interest, hurt himself or found that he couldn’t shoot that bow??

Just sayin’ and wondering.

Arne

[Arne Moe]

in reply to: need help tuning a new bow #10938

IF you are NEW to traditional, here is what I would suggest to make it as easy as possible.

First, set your brace height to the manufacture’s recommendation. Next set a nocking point at about 1/2″ high (above square). If you want string silencers, fine but you really don’t need them yet.

Now, go shoot. Learn how to shoot the bow and do not stress over arrow flight or noise for a while (month or two). Once you get comfortable with what you have and start to get comfortable with your shooting form; THEN will be the time to start tuning! You will find that you will be able to shoot pretty well with this setup and that how you shoot (form) will have a larger effect on accuracy, arrow flight , etc. than any amount of tuning at this time.

This is much different than setting up a new C bow and your shooting form and style will have a larger effect on your shooting than tuning. To a point where for a while you will NOT be able to determine if the “thing” you want to fix is caused by your form or by tuning. ONE STEP AT A TIME! And the first step should be YOU!

Good luck, have fun! and let us know how it’s going from time to time.

Arne

[Author]

Posts