[David Petersen]

in reply to: New heavyweight Tuffhead is here #58773

Rick and Troy (and welcome back, Rick!) — I have vowed to avoid 23/64 shafts forevermore. My reasons may suck — for one thing they expand the rubber grips in my bow quivert to the point that smaller shafts rattle around, and too, many glue-on heads are sized for 11/32. Anyhow and no matter, 23/64 are out for me. My bows are a 50# osage selfbow that pulls 55# on my scale, a 52# Bear K-Mag, and primarily, first and foremost, a #53 Shrew Classic Hunter (short r/d longbow). I draw 28″ and like arrows measuring 29.5″ nock to back of head, and the Tuffheads will glue on deep since they’re sized to take 23/64 and smaller with a very long ferule. I’m guessing a starting point of around 65# spine in shafts that weigh 350-400, if that’s possible. Rick — are you actively back in the arrowsmithing trade? Sure hope so. Dave

[David Petersen]

in reply to: New heavyweight Tuffhead is here #57695

Yes, it’s time I give Sitka Spruce a try, thanks.

[David Petersen]

in reply to: Coues kill — arrow set-up #57680

Well shucks. I just wrote a long detailed reply to J’s post, above and got TIMED OUT AGAIN with no warning. We simply must get this fixed and I know Robin struggles with it constantly.

So, the very much shortened version is this: The views and experiences of J and others who feel as he does that multi-blade heads, flat-sharpened, even with low-poundage bows are consistently lethal on game including elk and moose … that’s absolutely a personal choice and no criticism if it works for yuou. We who employ and preach the Ashby set-up also have our bases in experience and, having given heavy arrows with high FOC and very sharp single-bevel two-blades a fair trial, know precisely why we feel as we do. There is really no place for argument or defensiveness between the two views: you go your way and I’ll go mine. My personal reason for helping to get this site going and volunteering as a moderator was and is to escape the constant and often rude and uninformed harping by anti-Ashby troops we experienced on other sites. The very polite and opinion- rather than personality-based tone of your post, J., is very much appreciated and appropriater to the tone and mood of this site. But in any event I don’t care to argue about which is best. With the old ways I very rarely got fast, in-sight kills on elk. With the Ashby way all that has changed much for the better, whether with perfect arrow placement or just the opposite. That’s my goal — the most consistent possible near-instant kills and hundred-percent recovery. While I would never claim it can’t be done with other arrow set-ups, I’ve proven to myself, over and over, that it happens far more often by using the results of Dr. Ashby’s studies: science vs. anecdote. More ways than one to skin a cat and so long as we’re killing game fast and humanely, I don’t really care what others do, but will continue honestly analyzing what works and what doesn’t in my hunts, which requires a degree is admission of failure and error that’s unsettling to some but I feel is good for the cause. Now, if I could only shoot as well as an Olympic champion archer, things would be a lot easier. 😀 Dave

[David Petersen]

in reply to: New heavyweight Tuffhead is here #56678

Joe – Yes, I have a dozen, aka Douglas fir. But they’re pretty heavy since I asked the supplier to select the heaviest dozen he could match up. Maybe I can find some lighter. Love that wood — hard and straight and tough, superior to POC in every way except aroma, IMHO

[David Petersen]

in reply to: How were your Coues' deer hunts,Mr. Petersen? #56569

Steve — Happily, I had cell coverage at camp, so was able to call my doctor — Dave Sigurslid, my other half in the Campfire Philosopher column — and he ran me through various movement tests to determine nothing, probably, was broken. But I was unsure, barely able to move, and feared I’d have to canx the hunt and go for x-rays. That nite I told Caroline “I’m tired and sore from the day, going to hit the sack early.” Didn’t want to worry her. Each day as I improved I revealed a little more about how banged up I really was and how lucky to be alive. So she knows all. Ironically, I had the current issue of TBM along and the day after the fall read Clay Hayes’ article on tree stand safety. 😛

[David Petersen]

in reply to: New heavyweight Tuffhead is here #55931

Troy — You using those 300 field points with screw-in adapters, or glued onto wood? I have some surewood shafts I can’t wait to try them on. The search is now on for a very light strong wood in 11/32 in hopes the 300 grain points will put me over 20% FOC with wood. Notwithstanding all the conveniences of carbon shafts and screw-in heads, the only reason I temporarily left wood was to get EFOC. I’m not sure 300 will do it, but if the shaft is light enough, and maybe a couple inches over length, it could happen. I welcome suggestions for light strong woods, so long as it’s not POC. I’ll start testing and playing with them as soon as my failed flying lesson wounds heal up. 🙄

[David Petersen]

in reply to: Coues kill — arrow set-up #55884

Ed, indeed there was plenty of blood-shot tissue. I just finished the butchering the morning and more meat than I would like went to the dogs because it was full of black blood clots. And obviously this head was sharp. Not only did Ron Swartz sharpen the head, he basically created it by grinding all the correct angles from a blank. Sorry, I neglected to investigate the extent and location of the spine hit … I was concentrating on trying to trace the path of the arrow after it hit the spine and turned downward. Only one edge of the head is nicked, and the point slightly dulled. The latter does suggest a direct impact but it must have been below center of the vertebra or it would have stuck in rather than deflecting down.

As a PS to this story, on last year’s Coues I used an even heaver wood arrow and — testing the idea that on a small deer almost any sharp broadhead will do the job — a big 3-blade of considerable fame and popularity. Of course FOC was not high. I wanted to see if all the anecdotes about “massive exit wounds and blood trails” with 3-blades were valid. Never found out, as the shaft got less than half penetration. Part of the problem was that I had some shoulder pain and had unknowingly gotten into the habit of short drawing. But also, I, like most folks, sharpened my 3-blades with a flat file and stone, netting three blades with 60 degrees of bevel each = 180 degrees … as opposed to a two-blade single bevel with 25-degree edges = 50 degrees … in effect, more than three times as “sharp” so far as slicing ability and penetration friction. (If my math is wrong, which it often is, please correct me.) I’d had those heads for years for turkey hunting, but after that experience I threw them all away. I now own nothing but single-bevel two-blades. To each his own. For me, if I’m to continue hunting at this late stage in life, I can’t bear any more wounded animals. While I can only try and try to get everything just right in my shooting, now, thanks to your tenacious and no-BS work, Ed, I know exactly how to built the most lethal possible arrow set-ups. No spine hit on my bull elk this year, just a standard double-lung hit, yet he went only 15 yards. The single-bevel magic works!

[David Petersen]

in reply to: frameable quality Saxton P photo #55870

Well I’ll be darned — never knew that Pope was a lefty.

[David Petersen]

in reply to: Coues kill — arrow set-up #55808

Here’s the other side …

[David Petersen]

in reply to: How were your Coues' deer hunts,Mr. Petersen? #55764

Thanks again for all the kind congrats. Duncan — nope, those woolies I inherited from you are my heaviest so no need on the Mex border with highs in the mid-70s daily. Come this fall they’ll be soaked in elk blood “for sure.” I did wear some thinner woolies a couple of days and what a mistake. That’s all tall-grass cattle country down there, and wool is like Velcro to dead grass. Like so …

The fall — All big trees down there have bifurcate, or double trunks: alligator juniper and oak. And those split trunks lean heavily. So using a safety line while climbing

is a feat of engineering beyond me. I had the tree steps in and was clearing limbs for a shooting lane when a foot slipped off the limb I was standing on — 15′ to ground, so my head was about 21′. I blame this partly on my beloved LL Bean boots which are great for ground hunting but have zip for tree-bark traction. So my foot goes out and the “sturdy” limb I was holding on to with one hand broke. I wound up hitting the ground flat on my back and it took a while before I realized I could move. Then I did something so dumb it makes the fall seem like brilliance — I recalled the old cowboy saying, “Get right back on the horse what throwed you.” Without examining the veracity of that advice, somewhat stunned and with only one operable leg at the time, I — yep 😯 — hobbled back up the tree and finished hanging the stand. Then I found a stick to use for a crutch (sure wish I’d had your staff about then, Steve) and hobbled back up the steep hill, then on back to the truck. Took the next day off to rehab and was back to hunting, with the aid of lots of ibuprofen, the next day. Maybe I can figure a way to crop a pic of my backside to it won’t be too offensive, but really no need — it’s a blue-black bruise/contusion about a foot wide and two feet long. The real lucky part is that I broke no ribs and the rock under my skull apparently was softer than my head.

OK, before I get timed-out I’ll start a new thread to talk about the Ashby arrow set-up performance, which once again was beyond merely remarkable. Call me Mr. Lucky.

[David Petersen]

in reply to: How were your Coues' deer hunts,Mr. Petersen? #55553

Thanks, all. Steve — I have pics of the whole buck, which I’ll post soon in an “Ashby discussion” thread. Reason for the close “crop” is that’s as long as my arm would reach holding the camera. New cam but the time-delay wouldn’t work for some reason … maybe low battery. So no hero shot of me with full-body buck, and I tried and tried but couldn’t fit the entire buck’s head and my own conk into a shot at arm’s length. And accidental as it is, I sort of like the composition with the buck’s eye in the foreground. Also, the muzzle is covered with blood, very messy and not pretty. So, no subterfuge involved but just equipment (or user) malfunction. A 4×5 Coues is uncommon, making him a nice buck. But he’s still quite small compared to a true trophy, probably 2.5 years old. He was the first buck I had seen in 10 days of hard hunting and, already on overtime with my hunting widow back home, I would have shot him had he been a forky, like last year. Luck of the draw.

[David Petersen]

in reply to: Effective Range/Max effective range #55545

Lots of variables here, like how fast your bow is. My elk setup from a 53# longbow (Shrew) currently is 791 grains with about 27% FOC. Maybe because I’ve been doing this for a few years now, but I really don’t consiciously notice having to hold high, out to 20 yards, to compensate for inflated trajectory arc. Beyond that it’s a different story. But no matter arrow weight I have always had to hold high beyond 20; it’s simple physics. So far as speed vs. momentum, once the arrow contacts flesh momentum always wins, no matter shot distance.

With luck, Ed Ashby and other who know way more about this stuff will chime in. For me, it’s a matter of using the most lethal possible arrow set-up first — that’s min. 650 grains total weight with as much FOC as I can manage — then limiting my range to what my bow/arrow combo can handle without consiciously having to think about compensating for trajectory. 20 yards remains as good a guideline today as it always has. IMHO

[David Petersen]

in reply to: A true custom bow #54757

Unless you have extensive experience in bow physics and design, I say that designing a bow of your own is a mistake, and you’ll find few experienced bowyers willing to try it. Rather, as suggested above, post a list of what features you know you want in a bow and chances are good you’ll be flooded with suggestions for bowyers who do that sort of work. Generally, a “custom” stick bow means that you get to select trim items, woods, length, poundage, etc., to put on a standard model. It takes a huge amount of experimentation to develop a good new working design, then fashion the molds, etc. Best luck.

[David Petersen]

in reply to: Carbon to Wood #54752

In general, you’ll likely want to start experimenting with 65-70 or 70-75 spine, depending on head weight. Several mail-order suppliers offer “test kit” field points in a variety of weights. And some shaft makers will do the same with shafts. Lacking a nearby trad shop that’s what I’d do — get a variety of spine shafts and an assortment of head weights and start bare-shafting. If you know roughtly what head weight you want to go with (heavier the better) that would be a jump-start. Lots of info on this sort of thing on the internet. Enjoy …

[David Petersen]

in reply to: New Member #54744

Welcome aboard, Matt. “Maker” Matt … any relation to Maker’s Mark? 😀 😛 Dave

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