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  • David Petersen
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      Post count: 2749

      King — you’ve kilt elk and many hogzillas. I am of the uneducated (no experience with hogs) impression that huge hogs are even tougher than elk. You agree? For a recent example, the last elk I killed, a young cow, the wood shaft broke off an inch behind the Toughhead 300 yet the heavy head had enough momentum to make it into if not through the heart. That animal barely make 25 yards … as opposed to yours, above, harder hit yet went so much farther. Those who have done both enough to make an informed decision say that elk are tougher to kill fast than moose or bear. I’m thinking that giant hogs are tougher than elk, thus the toughest NA animal to kill, thus the ultimate test of an arrow setup short of water buffalo. Your thoughts?

      David Petersen
      Member
        Post count: 2749

        Too funny! I trust others also got the Robin Hood reference to the film “Brave.” Feels so good to laugh, thank you.

        David Petersen
        Member
          Post count: 2749

          Do you shoot the same two arrows each time? Try it with half a dozen of each. Or strip the feathers from the feathered shaft and shoot it bare, and fletch the bare shaft. In other words, it could be something integral to the two shafts, feathers notwithstanding. It’s oddly gratifying that even a space engineer can have such a problem as this. 😛

          David Petersen
          Member
            Post count: 2749

            In fact I invited Mike on this trip because I knew I needed to make the journey to visit an 87-year-old friend before I lose her too, for healing purposes. Yet I was fearful of going alone because it’s a trip Caroline and I made countless times over more than three decades, thus filled with ghosts and insecurity at every night’s camp for me. Mike was here briefly last summer so I knew he could be counted on for an open mind and near nonstop laughter. What I didn’t know was that on a clear night in a fern-carpeted aspen grove atop the Ashley NF above Flaming Gorge, he would keep me up half the night around a campfire detailing with amazing enthusiasm and knowledge the cosmos that is our greater home, yet a mass of flickering confusion to me. Paleo–while our “service” in the Marines overlapped, and he may or may not have risked his life riding in a chopper I was driving, we didn’t know each other until recently. I believe I sent him here to Tradbow, so it was a bit before that. Now I am back to my usual hermit reclusiveness, but healthier in the head (if not the liver) than before the trip. Thanks, Mike. And thanks again to all of you who have been so supportive. I remain a bit bipolar, but am relying on September to straighten me out. (This all feels uncomfortably self-indulgent, and I apologize. Life is weird for those who take it seriously. By comparison, death is easy.)

            David Petersen
            Member
              Post count: 2749

              Joe, I remain unsure of the usefulness of this exercise, as all it tells us is what others are using … when what really matters to assure we recover every animal we shoot at, is how well an arrow performs on big game, especially with less than perfect shots. And as another contributor has noted, bow weight etc. does play in: the slower and lower weight the bow, the more weight and FOC we need to assure enough momentum to get the job done even with heavy bone hits, which arent’ all that rare. But if you want it, my friend, here it is, for now:

              Bow: Java Man “Elkheart” r/d “long”bow, 54″ length, 52lb @ 28” draw.

              Carbon arrows: Carbon Express Heritage 250s, 29-3/4″ long. 4×3″ feathers, 1/2″ high. Plastic nocks. 787 grains total: 75 grain brass inserts, 50 grain steel broadhead adapters, 300 grain Tuffheads. FOC = 28.5%.

              Notes: These are my well-proven go-to elk arrows, having produced several complete pass-throughs–some with major bone hits and others not–at 20 yards and less, with elk always going down within sight (in heavy woods where sight distance is short). Zero animals unrecovered. I have no particular loyalty to CE shafts, but the work well and are cheap.

              Woodies: Sitka spruce, 29-3/4″ long, same fletching as carbons above. 705 grains total weight with 300 grain glue-on Tuffheads. FOC = 23.5%. I’ve shot only one elk with this setup, a yearling cow about 400lbs. Shaft broke an inch behind the head and fell out, yet head had enough momentum to slice the heart in half and the elk ran only 25 yards before down and dead.

              Notes: This is perhaps the last of a long line of experiments with almost every lighter softwood shaft wood, in an effort to get EFOC with woodies. I tried adding a 2″ aluminum collar behind the head for strength and increased FOC a bit (collar weight about 15 grains), but that only transferred the breakage (testing by shooting at an angle into live pine trees). Until someone proves me wrong with well-documented and repeated test and hunt data, I have given up on EFOC with softwood shafts and heavy heads. Hardwoods are the only woods that are strong enough to not break on angled impact with bone … but invariably too heavy to produce EFOC, esp. for me as I prefer to start with a heavy reliable braodhead and work back down the shaft from there. For me, if you want to shoot woods it means working with weight alone, with little to no help from FoC. I’ve done it and it works, but depending on bow weight and speed and ect. you’re looking at a minimum 800 grains total weight, which works against lighter slower bows. On the flip side, part of the multifold magic of EFOC is that you can get great penetration, even on heavy bone, without super-heavy total weight, though I follow Ashby’s advice for minimum weight of 650. All of life is a trade-off and as much as I prefer to shoot wood and still do when I can, I have become convinced via personal experience that if you really put the animal first, and if “most of the time is works” isn’t good enough, it’s carbon shafts for big tough animals like elk, moose and big bears. Successful exceptions are noted, but exceptions are just that … exceptions, not the rule. Ed Ashby has established the rule and after years of testing it, I haven’t been able to find a single fault.

              In the end I must point out, as always, that all of my archery gear is set up to hunt big elk while allowing for the possibility of bad hits, though I do my best to get good hits, as do all of us who holds our shots to our personal max range (long shooters are creeps and slobs, no matter the weapon). If you’re hunting nothing but whitetails, you don’t need the weight and FOC of my arrows … though, for reasons of conscience and because I was a pre-C Boy Scout (“Be prepared”) and at almost age 70 with life’s usual injuries, can only accurately handle low-50s bows these days, I won’t hunt any big mammal with less than 650 grains and 20% FOC.

              David Petersen
              Member
                Post count: 2749

                Joe, will do asap. I’ll have to re-measure and weigh them all, as it’s been a while and after ColMike’s visit the old brain is still awash in Kolsch and gin. Don’t even want to think about the liver. 😯

                David Petersen
                Member
                  Post count: 2749

                  Doc Noc — Simply put, no matter the bow I’m shooting, I see definite and significant improvements in penetration with heavier arrows and higher FOC. I always put total weight first, minimum 650, before working on FOC. I keep waiting for Dr. Ed to criticize this possible oversimplification???

                  Hammer, re your sign-off quote: Methinks old Tom was speaking of the Germans! After all, his piano has been drinking. I’ll take Flaco Jimenez over any mere gentleman any day!

                  David Petersen
                  Member
                    Post count: 2749
                    in reply to: Spring Bear #9637

                    Red, congratulations on a very nice bear taken fair chase … that is, he didn’t come to you via a bait, but you went to him via skill and luck, thus actually hunting. I’ve eaten bear a few times but always fall-fat. Let us know what a big ole spring bear tastes like. And good on you not only for choosing hunting over baiting, but for choosing the unimpeachably proven benefits of an Ashby arrow over speed and luck.

                    David Petersen
                    Member
                      Post count: 2749
                      in reply to: New books #63504

                      Jim, indeed, after my rants earlier in this thread saying I would never do it, I did. Sort of. I used to have readers on darn near every continent, but the international postage got to crazy high that it cost more to ship than the book cost. Plus I hated waiting through the P.O. line to do the customs. And too, the alleged “The Good Hunt Film” will likely go public in Europe later this summer, which might stir some interest. So I took the four books I have control over (most remain with various publishers) and created e-book versions. Those are:

                      Ghost Grizzlies

                      Heartsblood

                      Racks

                      Going Trad.

                      All are $9.95. Thanks for giving me an opening to shamelessly plug my own wares.

                      ColMike has been here for 10 days and leaves today. We did a road trip to Teton NP, seriously lowered the local craft beer, gin and scotch reservoirs, and it has been good medicine for me. Thanks, Mike.

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                      David Petersen
                      Member
                        Post count: 2749

                        Bruce, seems to me that crossgunners DO have rubber suction-cup heads! No matter what they use on their bolts.

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                        David Petersen
                        Member
                          Post count: 2749

                          Another vote for Tung oil as easy to use and to reapply when needed. It also gives wood a soft natural look some like. But most like the shine of lacquer and such. Trouble is, all such hard finishes, aside from shining like glass when hunting, tends to crack and chip off and refinishing evenly is difficult. I’m sold on Tung oil.

                          Ralph, please describe the “new life” a bit more. Does it darken chalky-white antlers in a natural way? The very worst thing you can do to faded antlers, which I see all the time, is to apply wood stain. It goes way too dark and looks nothing like fresh antlers. I have one “European mount” outside on a tree and I would love to be able to preserve it without spoiling the natural look. Oddly, I just noticed last evening, the skull is turning green with mold … in a semi-desert place where 30% is very high humidity and 15% in summer is common. Moisture must be coming from the bone itself, though it’s several years old.

                          David Petersen
                          Member
                          Member
                            Post count: 2749

                            Interpretation, por favor? Not that I’m a literalist 🙄 …

                            David Petersen
                            Member
                              Post count: 2749
                              in reply to: Wood Arrow Advise #36431

                              Wojo — If you use the right spine arrows you can get your FOC up a good deal by going with heavier heads and, yes, tapered shafts. However you’re still well below Ashby recommended minimum arrow weight for assured penetration of heavy bones, 650 grains. If forced to a choice, I’ll go with total weight over FOC any time. But you can get most of the extra 125 you need simply by going to heavier heads and slightly heavier shafts, and likely increase FOC while you’re at it. Eons ago, when I first read Ashby’s early Natal Report, which did not get in to FOC but focused on arrow weight and broadhead design, I immediately started shooting plumb through elk, first time ever. My arrows were hickory and weighed in the 840s and the heads were only 125. My FOC must have been near 0. So right or wrong, my advice is always to get the 650 first, with as much of it up front as possible, then think about improving FOC. As Mike suggests, carbons make arrow lethality thus ethics easy. But I sure understand your wood love and am a victim myself. Experimentation with various arrow shaft materials and point weights is great fun and worth the investment in itself.

                              David Petersen
                              Member
                                Post count: 2749
                                in reply to: bow scale? #36424

                                JB, I enthusiastically second R2 on this scale. It couldn’t be easier to use and I’ve checked mine against other scales and it seems right on. Plus it exactly agrees with the marked poundage of my bows. I think your problem is solved.

                                David Petersen
                                Member
                                  Post count: 2749
                                  in reply to: Teardrops #34987

                                  Paleo — Carolyn always wanted one of these, and I’ve done some looking-around. The smaller ones, like T&B, you can’t stand upright in and are too low-slung to haul on rugged backroads. The only one we found that looked really good was the R-Pod, which has a 4×4 lift kit and a metal frame and is super-strong and roomy inside. But we ultimately decided against any trailer because of our style of camping, which involved a lot of enjoyable exploration down public-lands roads and often up logging roads to their ends. Found some fantastic spots doing that over the years, which we’ve revisited often. And that could not have happened while hauling a trailer, which limits you to fairly good roads and prevents going down an unknown side-road where you may not be able to turn around with a trailer. While they also have disadvantages, a pop-up slide-in truck camper is, in my experience, far superior for the adventurous hunter and vacationer. Of course there are large areas of the country that have no public land and you’re stuck camping in campgrounds, and for that a trailer could be good. I have come full circle and am back to tent camping. The dogs haven’t complained about it so far.

                                Viewing 15 posts - 121 through 135 (of 2,570 total)