Home Forums Friends of FOC Little Blackie takes a dirt nap

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    • kingwouldbe
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      Shot was about 15-18 yards, 63# hybrid longbow, 665grain arrow tipped with a tuffhead 225grain with 100grain steel insert.

      Arrow hit in the soft part of the pocket, behind the right front leg, cut the rib and pierced the heart exiting the off foreleg about 8-9 inches.

      He was dead on his feet, spun to his left after the hit, ran about 30 yards then staggered and walked about 80 yards like a drunkard, he was fighting the effects of the broadhead, spinning & bucking, falling down then get back up.

      Finally flipping over backwards doing the High-o-Silver.

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    • kingwouldbe
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      The arrow had backed out after he snapped it off, I got about 24 inches of penetration, yet I did not want to touch the arrow, as thats the way he died.

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    • kingwouldbe
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      ” S ” in his heart…… brought to you by TUFFHEAD.

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    • kingwouldbe
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      This is a pic I took from the video I shot of him, as he was staggering down hill.

      You can see the arrow & Tuffhead on his exit side.

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    • kingwouldbe
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      I shot a sow also, what do you think I hit / cut?

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    • jpcjpc
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      Post count: 170

      Congratulations fantastic moment I’m sure

      Your bow looks very nice recurve, who’s the boyer ?

    • Bruce Smithhammer
      Post count: 2514

      One helluva hog, King. And a great story. Thanks for sharing the detail pics.

      I can’t help but laugh thinking about what a 125 gr. head with 12% FOC, which is supposedly “all you need,” would have done on that bad boy… 🙄

    • kingwouldbe
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      Hi JPC,

      It is a hybrid longbow trad-tec pinnacle 19″ riser with Morison carbon/foam limbs,it is an ILF set up.

    • kingwouldbe
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      Smithhammer, um……… it usually ends with a story like this, ” I shot this monster boar right in the lungs…… he ran forever…….. lost the blood trail….. must of been a poor shot.

      I believe this is what Doctor Ashby was trying to convey to us….. with an enhanced set up, you can breach heavy bone consistently.

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    • kingwouldbe
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      This is the back side of the leg bone, it blew off a big chunk of bone.

      NOT ALL BROADHEADS ARE EQUAL: Having the requisite qualities, such as strength or ability, for a task or situation:

      Thank God we have lot’s to choose from, careful though, “some only catch hunters” I’m glad I had one that was up to the task.

      The Tuffhead not only went through the humerus leg bone, it also cut the near rib in two, cut both lungs ( yes, that’s a double lung shot ) and cut the off side rib and exited with a 3 inch wide wound.

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    • kingwouldbe
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      This is whats behind the humerus leg bone….. double lungs.

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    • kingwouldbe
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      Right at the tip of the arrow you can see where the tip of the broadhead hit the bone, I think it “POPPED” the leg-bone in the first quarter inch, then blew a big chunk off the back side of the leg-bone as it passed through.

      The broadhead was still sharp with “ZERO” roll over on the edges, I could of washed it off and hunted with it, however I would not, I like a finely honed edge, but the edge durability was outstanding.

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    • Toehead
      Post count: 34

      But…but…but…if your hitting heavy bone than…but…but…but… Lol!

      Just pure poetic beauty! Awesome hunt!

    • tailfeather
      Post count: 417

      I’ve monkeyed around with hogs enough to know how tough that bone is. Quite impressive.

    • Bruce Smithhammer
      Post count: 2514

      Holy cow – the devastation from that shot is unreal!

    • David Petersen
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      Post count: 2762

      King — you’ve kilt elk and many hogzillas. I am of the uneducated (no experience with hogs) impression that huge hogs are even tougher than elk. You agree? For a recent example, the last elk I killed, a young cow, the wood shaft broke off an inch behind the Toughhead 300 yet the heavy head had enough momentum to make it into if not through the heart. That animal barely make 25 yards … as opposed to yours, above, harder hit yet went so much farther. Those who have done both enough to make an informed decision say that elk are tougher to kill fast than moose or bear. I’m thinking that giant hogs are tougher than elk, thus the toughest NA animal to kill, thus the ultimate test of an arrow setup short of water buffalo. Your thoughts?

    • Vintage Archer
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      Post count: 276

      David Petersen wrote: I’m thinking that giant hogs are tougher than elk, thus the toughest NA animal to kill, thus the ultimate test of an arrow setup short of water buffalo. Your thoughts?

      DAVID PETERSEN You comparing a hog to a water buffalo reminds me of a story.

      When I started to manufacture the TuffHead I sent a broad head to Dr. Ed Ashby for him to critique 8). He said (paraphrasing) that the broadhead really needed to be tested on a large animal like Asian Buffalo or a large bore hog which he considered to be as tough. He new David (KING) and thought maybe I could convince him to test the TuffHead on those California Giant Hogs

      I did not know David and really wondered about some one with a nick name King Wouldbe😀 but I called him and being the sport he is he agreed…….He killed a giant and got it all an video. The TuffHead preformed beyond my expectations and my thoughts of not pre judging a guy with a name of King also proved correct:D:D

      KWB is the KING of hog slayers.

      KING thanks for posting this kill.The pictures are great as well as the story of the hunt.Thanks for your help in the original TuffHead test and your continued support and loyalty to the TuffHead. I wanted to say that in public as that story has never been told to others. King “You are da man “:lol:

    • Stephen Graf
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      Post count: 2330

      What, no cigar?

    • kingwouldbe
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      Thanks Guy’s..

      Well, I see my friend Troy has developed a speech impediment…..lol, that’s what happens when you try to reason, with the unreasonable….. it gets tiring some times. That’s why I’m putting Doc Ashby’s name in the hat for ” Saint Ashby” …….. oops way to much sin for Saint hood……lol

      King — you’ve kilt elk and many hogzillas. I am of the uneducated (no experience with hogs) impression that huge hogs are even tougher than elk. You agree? That’s a Tuffhead…. I mean tough one………. I think we need to define TOUGH, are we talking the will to keep going and not give up….. are we talking the ability to inflict a wound……or are we talking the ability to take a boat-load of punishment and keep going……etc.

      For a recent example, the last elk I killed, a young cow, the wood shaft broke off an inch behind the Toughhead 300 yet the heavy head had enough momentum to make it into if not through the heart. That animal barely make 25 yards … That is amazing, but if you think about it, your broadhead, the tuffhead 300 was as heavy as a lot of compound shooters whole arrow, ( my first thought was that the arrow my have went in then bounced back out, was there any blood on the shaft? if no blood on the shaft, then I think your right, the broadhead drove it’s self through……… That my friend is a mind blower!!!!!!!!!!

      as opposed to yours, above, harder hit yet went so much farther. This falls into the category of taking punishment and keep on going, both Bull Elk & Big Boars can take a lot of punishment, A big Bull can weigh 2-3 times the weight of a big boar, so the amount of punishment, pound for pound, has to go to the big boar, however because of there greater size, the big bull can also take a boat-load of punishment.

      Those who have done both enough to make an informed decision say that elk are tougher to kill fast than moose or bear. I’m thinking that giant hogs are tougher than elk, thus the toughest NA animal to kill, thus the ultimate test of an arrow setup short of water buffalo. Your thoughts?

      My opinion wouldbe, big boars are tougher to inflict a killing wound in, easier to penetrate shooting from behind, on a non vital shot, you’ll loose both…. both have an incredible ability to take punishment and keep going. The biggest difference is, big boars grow tougher and tougher, not just size, but actually harder and harder structure, the more they fight the tougher they become, they can become one big scar. Big bulls on the other hand really just grow bigger, same hide thickness, little if any scar tissue.

      Both shot into the lung area, in my opinion, Elk are easier to get enough penetration into the vitals, both can take a lot of punishment, Bull Elk because of his size and his muscle structure, Big Boars, because of his shield and dense muscle structure, and some times just his angry attitude.

      Joe, I don’t know if you ever heard how I got the nickname “kingwouldbe” my good friend Ron Murry and I, and a bunch of other guys were hunting Santa Catalina Island circa 1980, there was about 30 bowhunters and a mountain of gear being stowed below deck.

      The deck hands were just shoving all of the gear down below, they said to put your name on your stuff, my friend Ron had a marking pen, I asked him to put my name on my arrow box’s, yes arrow box’s, we would take 3 dozen arrows and some times you would run out, and pick up one you found, Bowhunting Paradise, ten kill days where not uncommon.

      As we got to the dock on the island, the deck hands started calling out your name to pick up your gear so it did not just pile up, the guy said; “kingwouldbe”…… “kingwouldbe”…… he stared yelling “kingwouldbe” no one moved…… then my friend elbowed me, said; that’s you! everyone laughed as I walked up to get my ” kingwouldbe” arrows…. it stuck, the whole trip guys called me kingwouldbe for laughs.

      Steve look at the pic with the sow…… it’s just a stub.

      It’s good to be the king…….

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    • Bruce Smithhammer
      Post count: 2514

      King – as I read back through this thread (and pick my jaw up off the floor after looking through the pics again) one thing jumps out at me – your arrow weight is just over the magic “650gr. bone-breaking” threshhold, but not by much. And yet the damage is obviously huge.

      I’m assuming you’ve probably experimented with some arrow setups that are significantly heavier at some point, and I know that there are other variables to take into consideration as well, but I’m curious – did you find that the gains were negligible beyond 665 gr, and that there wasn’t much need for an arrow a lot heavier than that? That sure seems to be what the pics suggest…

      Awesome “King” pic, btw.

    • Ed Ashby
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      Post count: 816

      vintage archer wrote: When I started to manufacture the TuffHead I sent a broad head to Dr. Ed Ashby for him to critique 8). He said (paraphrasing) that the broadhead really needed to be tested on a large animal like Asian Buffalo or a large bore hog which he considered to be as tough. He new David (KING) and thought maybe I could convince him to test the TuffHead on those California Giant Hogs :

      And I will stand by all of that! King IS truly the King of BIG hog hunters … and, while the heavy bones of elk, moose and big bears would be good test targets, as would those of bison, no one gets to shoot enough of those for them to be possible test subjects. I have no doubt that the Cape and Asian buffalo are the king of test animals but I doubt that anyone will ever again have access to the number of buffalo that I had to test on, so that leaves the BIG boars as the best available test animals and King has more access to BIG boars than anyone I know.

      Dave, there’s a recent report of a large, bull elephant shot with a 1200 grain arrow on which the broadhead, insert and steel internal footing detached from the shaft at the point where the entrance rib was breached. The 600+ grain ‘point’ (point plus insert and steel IF) carried on to traverse the entire thorax, coming to a stop against the bone of the off-side shoulder; that’s better than 5 feet of penetration for the ‘point’ alone. The shot was quickly fatal. I was amazed by that result.

      King, man you have come a long way in documenting your shot results. Those are great dissection photos. Well done, my friend!

      Ed

    • Ed Ashby
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      Post count: 816

      Smithhammer wrote: King – as I read back through this thread (and pick my jaw up off the floor after looking through the pics again) one thing jumps out at me – your arrow weight is just over the magic “650gr. bone-breaking” threshhold, but not by much. And yet the damage is obviously huge.

      I’m assuming you’ve probably experimented with some arrow setups that are significantly heavier at some point, and I know that there are other variables to take into consideration as well, but I’m curious – did you find that the gains were negligible beyond 665 gr, and that there wasn’t much need for an arrow a lot heavier than that? That sure seems to be what the pics suggest…

      Awesome “King” pic, btw.

      Smith, I shot my last Asian buffalo with an UEFOC, 655 grain arrow having 31.4% FOC. It broke ribs in and out and stuck 26″ of arrow out the off-side. He was a really big bodied bull and I got the best penetration I’ve ever had when using that particular longbow on a BIG, trophy-class buffalo bull. That’s only a single shot so can’t be used as a ‘consistent outcome’ indicator but I used that arrow setup because, in it’s testing on freshly downed buffalo, it equaled the Minimum, Maximum, Average and Median penetration test-shot results of the very best arrow setup I had previously tested (from that longbow) … which was and EFOC (20%) arrow 312 grains heavier. (Please note that several other EFOC arrows, at higher FOC but lighter weight, also came very, very close to equaling that 967 grain, 20% FOC arrow, but did not FULLY equal it in the testing.)

      Ed

    • Bruce Smithhammer
      Post count: 2514

      Thanks – that’s great info, Dr. Ed. While of course individual results will differ, it’s this sort of information that helps inform our choices in an educated way.

    • kingwouldbe
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      I’m just the test dummy 😯 Doc figures it out, tells everyone what he thinks, I go & try it, come back with info……

      I try to remember what I’m suppose-ta do, and always forget what I’m suppose-ta do…..lol

      I keep saying I need to wright a cheat sheet that I can pull out and see what I’m suppose-ta do….. never happens.

      I’m just like you guys, I’m so jacked up over the kill, I get lost in the moment.

      Thank God, I sometimes remember, I should maybe take a picture of this.

      I did get little blackie on a head camera, the kill shot and everything, then I pulled out my video camera and got him fighting the arrow, just have to figure out how to edit it.

      Dave Peterson, this is my all time mind blown experience. This Boar I shot a few years ago, went about 400 yards with this hole in his heart….. how…. you can’t…… it’s not possible… he even went about 150 up hill following his sows.

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    • kingwouldbe
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      Check this out, I love it……

      ” Phil,

      Hi Kingwouldbe

      I’ll try and explain why I was so impressed with your photographs, but first a little bit of skeletal anatomy and osseous pyhsiology if I may. The “knuckle” or Epiphysis you mention is the rounded head which fits into a socket (acetabulum) that forms a joint in the leg of your hog. The honeycomb you mention is the trabeculea of the cancellous bone, a softer type of bone structure which is inside the harder outer cortical hard bone. (Now the biomechanics part).

      You have to remember that your hog was standing up and fully weight bearing when the arrow the arrow hit, so the bone was under compresson and all the leg joints were in a congruent loaded position, essentially making the structure stronger. Your arrow hit the leg just below the transition part of the bone shaft and the epiphysial condyle, possibly the stronest part of the bone. When your arrow hit the bone, it set up a classic 3 point bending moment within the bone. Both ends of the bone were fixed in their joints and the force of your arrow bent the bone like a bent bow. In 3 point bending fractures, the force generated at a single point on one side of the bone is greater than the reaction force on the opposite side of the stable ends of the bone, so the bone begins to bend. Just like a bow bending, the bending bone on the inside curve is under compression and the bone on the outside of the curve is in extension. When the extension force experienced on the outside curve of the bone exceeded it’s elastic modulus, a crack propogates from the internal application of the force, which in your case was your arrow. So the bone on the opposite side of the point of impact essentially explodes.

      So why was I so impressed with your photographs …. well … you hit the bone in possibly the strongest area. The bone is quite short where you hit with thick cortical walls , so the bending moments generated will be small, but the force required to bend the bone will be very high. To apply a force to propogate a butterfly comminuted fracture of that quality is no mean feat.

      Hope this helps …. and my background ? .. I’m head of research for a European medical research company.

      Small mistake … when I said “a crack propogates from the internal application of the force,” I should have typed a crack propogates TO the internal application of the force,…. sorry guys my mistake.”

      Phil, That was so outstanding, I had to read it a few times, I think I’ll read it again just for fun.

      Thank you, Thank you, Thank you,

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    • smiley1
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      Post count: 102

      KING, your pictures say a thousand words. Just more reinforcement on why proper arrow-broadhead selection is so important for ethical bowhunting. The information contained in this thread is nothing short of amazing!!!! Thanks.

      Steve

    • Col MikeCol Mike
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      Post count: 910

      King

      Great thread and the pictures and anatomy lesson were priceless. Thanks to Joe and Doc Ed for the “rest of the story”. 😀

      Mike

    • David Bartlett
      Post count: 75

      King,

      Outstanding documentation! Just seeing this devastation and trying to imagine an expandable head shredding itself on contact with that bone sure gives one food for thought.

    • David CoulterDavid Coulter
      Member
      Post count: 2257

      King, It was all said, but I have to say it again. Thanks for the excellent documentation and evidence of outstanding performance. Congratulations on your hunt and also on the proof of your method. best, dwc

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