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in reply to: Dynamic spine #57611
For starters you might check out Ashby’s latest update to the 2008 studies, just posted to the library a few days ago (at the bottom of the contents list). While not specifically addressing the concept, it contains some nice summaries of how tip weight/FoC reduces spine flexing in flight and on impact thus increasing penetration. The Doc seems to be taking another break but I’d hope before long he’ll be back to address this good question and likely point you elsewhere in his studies. dave
in reply to: efoc vs arrow integrity #57608At this point there’s no getting around the fact that carbon shafts offer all the best stuff for EFoC arrows, including integrity with light shafts. But my experience there is limited, having tested and hunted with only ABS GrizzlyStiks and el cheapo Walmart Carbon Express 45-60s. My only “internal footings” are 100 and 125-grain brass inserts. While I’ve never had a shaft break completely, I’ve had a few of the CE shafts split from the insert back an inch or more. And on last year’s elk, the head came out of the shaft at some point after impact (not that it helped the elk any!). I’m currently playing with footed wood shafts, but disappointed with low FoC and while footings strengthen the shafts behind the head, then tend to break farther back so nothing at all gained. Some look at all this “messing around” with arrow system possibilities as unnecessary confusion, expense and hassle. So far, I find it fun. My 2 cents, dave
in reply to: subscription #57600Mark — I think you just did!:D
in reply to: Let's build a selfbow #56877Clay — I’ve only built a few osage selfbows — most have been osage or hickory-backed osage board bows. However one of my selfbows had a rather large worm hole in the middle of the upper limb and didn’t cause any problems whatover. Just as with working around a knot, I left the limb a bit thicker and wider at that point and no problem. I joked that it was a built-in sight window! Certainly a worn hole toward an edge could be more probematic. My favorite selfbows are “character” bows, with holes, snakey limbs, etc. Keep building! dave
in reply to: ABS Ashby single bevel BH #56874Tom — sounds great!
Sapcut — I’ve neither tested nor even seen the new Grizzly 200, because it’s right-wing only (still) and my fletching jig and dozens of arrows are left-wing. But I have heard from folks on this site that it’s a big improvement on an already great head — the overlap in the two sides has been eliminated, making sharpening easier, and apparently some improvement in sharpness from the factory though not yet hunting sharp. Even with the original 190 if you can get ’em really sharp, I believe the El Grande remains at the top of the Doc’s list of super-deadly broadheads and hope he’ll correct me if I’m wrong. If you shoot right-wing and can get ’em sharp, I’d go for it with no qualms.But, big proviso: I have done some minimal testing primarily for my own education and confidence. And I am privileged to have had the opportunity to “dumb down” Ashby’s work for broader and easier digestion in TBM (crash-test dummy, that’s me). Yet I am no expert in this arena and absolutely make no pretense at knowing anything beyond what works for me and what fails. We are blessed today, thanks to Dr. Ashby and a growing number of broadhead manufacturers who listen to him, and to us, because they want to be successful in the marketplace and are not blind to the writing on the wall. So we now have a growing number of excellent, strong, high MA, 2-blade, single-bevel broadheads. Grizzly was the first and still among the best. I just remain among those who are too dumb to get them sharp without filing off half their weight, so I lean more toward the BB and Concord. :roll::oops: Dave
in reply to: subscription #56863Well shucks, at my age and given my many deadly habits — good ice cream every night being most dangerous among them — a 3-year subscription would probably outlive me! 😆 Seriously, the TBM family — in fact two couples — are the most real people you’ll likely every find in a generally impersonal publishing industry. It’s why TBM is the only magazine I’ve worked closely with for several years now. Nobody there is getting rich off us, that’s for sure. dave
in reply to: ABS Ashby single bevel BH #56518Tom — I haven’t done the math, but they’re about as close to the 3:1 “ideal” as we can find today, along with Tusker Concord, Grizzly and STOS gets close. Could be others I’m unaware of. All the heads named above, I have tested and killed game with and come highly recommended. I sound like a hiccup here, but imho, all things considered, the BB is best head for the money, Concord the cheapest great head, and the ABS Ashby the best-built head available. Only thing keeping the El Grande off that list is their relative dullness out of the box.
in reply to: Keepin' It Trad… #56513Sorry fellers. For what little it’s worth, I am 64, going on 18. ‘Nuff said about age divisions. Steady on, dave 8):wink:
in reply to: Is some pickin' okay here? #54676Well getting back on topic — George, what’s your FOC on that Gibson?:wink:
in reply to: Wood Arrow Build Along "Finished" #53373Dude — How essential do you view the spine tester to be for the average guy who may build 2 or 3 dozen arrows a year? As you noted, they usually come fairly close in spine and it’s variations in weight we have to deal with. I’ve never had one and done pretty well, though I’m sure I’d do better with a spine tester.
Re Steve’s question about buyin gross: A professional arrowmaker I know, like most I’m sure, always buys shafts in hundreds, then carefull sorts them by weight and spine, so that he generally ends up being able to provide a dozen arrows of the same spine across a fairly wide array of weights. If I were to do that I’d wind up with a ton of shafts in spines and weights I could never use.
Sorry Dude, back to you. Pics are great.
in reply to: Keepin' It Trad… #53156Bert — I think all of that (except the verbotens, as you say) fit fine right here at the Campfire circle and will make it all the more interesting. Anyhone who’s made the hunting site circuit should easily understand what we are trying to avoid, and accomplish, and why. I am a veteran and sometimes instigator of pointless bickering and negativity myself, elsewhere and long ago. Coming here is and will remain like going to the woods — a happy place of sanity and good humor, where all feel safe to join the conversation. The “other topics” title in inself seemed to invite controvery. So yeah, just consider this Campfire forum open to reasonable extensions of our common interest and friendship. No need to separate it out. We are trying hard! Thanks for doing the same. dave 😀
in reply to: stupin with woodies #53147Cody — while no doubt there are some hard-corps stumpers among us who use prime arrows for roving, for most of us, this is what we do with odds ‘n ends arrows we don’t want to hunt or do serious practice with, yet still are safely shootable. Part of the fun of stump-shooting is the care-free feeling that the arrows are expendable if broken or lost. If you want to make your stump arrows last a lot longer, you can cap the ends, 2-3″ with an aluminum arrow sleeve (then use screw-in heads). One of my favorite things is when an arrow splits or otherwise becomes unusable, but still has one shot left in it. I call it “air burial.” Assuming you have a safe place to do it — aim high and watch it disappear into the clouds. 😀
in reply to: tungsten-footed woodies; considerations #52050Hiram, yep I see it now, thanks. And Mark’s idea sounds solid too. Toward that end, that is what STOS is supposedly doing with it forever-forthcoming new heads, in part: in order to get the weight up and still keep a long/then streamlined (high MA) design, they’re going to a thicker head, which of course increases head strength as well. Other manufacturers are also talking about this. It would seem logical that adding, say, an inch or two of extended ferule that slips over the shaft like a tube — aka the old English bodkin design — would strengthen the shaft at it’s weakest point.But I’m no engineer and it might just transfer the breakage to the back of the sock. Certainly another fun experiment worth playing with … but first the head. dave
in reply to: Is some pickin' okay here? #52038Bert wrote: Hey, George- Sounds great out here in the rainy PNW!- Is it a rendition of ‘I Got the EFOC Blues’ by C. Shaft and the Woodies?!!! I mean, this being a trad bowsite and all.
Keep pickin’-BertBert is right! Next time, hang a bow and a quiver of arrows on the wall behind you and look lovingly at it as you play! 😆 And of course, only traditional tunes, which I think by now “Me and Bobby McGee” qualifies as. 😀 I squandered 5 years of effort and income trying to learn to play guitar, back in the ’70s, before finally admitting the obvious: I have no talent. Today, I find the Native American flute far more suited to my skills. And better yet, my wife points out, with a flute in my mouth I can’t sing. :roll::lol: dave
in reply to: Woodie Weights #51298My experience equals MT Michael’s with alums. As tempting as they are in many ways, if we elect to do our best to “Ashby-up” our arrows systems with arrow integrity (nothing fails or breaks) and EFoC, alums just don’t seem up to the task. 1) their diameter tends to be excessive, 2) as Mr. Ford points out the wall strength of the shafts is lacking on angled hits, and 3) right now at least, it’s hard or impossible to find anything but alum screw-inserts for alum shafts, which the Doc says must be avoided (nor do they add poop to FoC). Alums are cheap and synthetic. Carbons are cheap and synthetic. If a guy is looking for economy and prefers synthetics and yet want a serious Ashby-quality EFoC/reliable arrow system, I don’t see any contest. Go with carbon. If you’re a lifelong woodie addict like me, there will always be that nagging nostalgie to get back to wood, which I’m doing all I can to try and facilitate even now. Yet, at this point, considering nothing but “killing machine” quality, carbons have it down. This is my experience, well tested. I trust that many others have had other experiences. But increasingly as I age, I am less pragmatic and increasingly poetic in my approach to archery and bowhunting. I really enjoy experimenting, testing and proving or disproving it to myself. Beyond that — beyond knowing and reporting what has and has not worked for me — I don’t claim any special knowledge. Many ways to skin a cat! dave
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