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in reply to: Tillering Question. #33315
Steve Graf wrote: [quote=vintage archer]
…I know some will disagree with this statement:D but in a fiberglass bow difference in the limb tillering (top vs bottom ) is not necessary. There are some who “manufacturing” bows ignore differential tillering and make there limbs the same.:D
As you anticipated someone would do Joe, I respectfully disagree. IMHO it matters not what the bow is made from. What matters is that the bow balances in your hand, and is correctly tillered.
Take a bow with even length limbs and hold it horizontally from the string or grip. The bottom limb will drag the ground. Measure the string length from limb tip to nock set on the top and bottom side. Does the difference give you pause? It should.
I am strictly a hobbiest bowyer. For me it is a Budda Exercise (used that phrase twice today 8) ) And I am prone to harsh judgement. But I believe bowyers make limbs the same length because it is easier to tiller and make a good looking bow as it hangs on the wall.
Tillering a bow with a top limb 2 inches longer than the bottom limb is a greater challenge. But when you get it right, you have a superior bow. A real meat maker.
[b]Steve[/b] No real argument from me. I built all my self bows just as you described. My laminated bow forms are set up the same way.:D
Balance in hand is important and this can be attained by different limb lengths. As you state most bows are now built with equal length limbs to facilitate the manufacturing process. A lot of the new bows are tillered evenly.
The point I was making to address the original question is the tillering for split fingers would not make a lot of difference for three fingers under.
There are very few real custom bows being made any more….Most of the basic designs are set up for CNC. machines or sanding jigs to shape risers and limbs. The string nocks are even cut by machine……I speak from experience when I say bowyers were forced into it in order to make a living. I saw this when I built custom bows commercially. When I switched from custom to making kids bows (BLACK RHINO ) I also switched my method from all hand work to jigs for sanding and shaping etc. I no longer called them custom bows but manufactured bows.:D:
in reply to: Noisy Recurve #32257jpc wrote: Try it It works very well
Any material you can glue will do the job
http://www.3riversarchery.com/Calf+Hair+String+Groove+Silencers_i3559_baseitem.html
jpc beat me to the suggestion…a good material for this is mole skin it has it own adhesive, Can be purchased at most drug stores
in reply to: Tillering Question. #32186NZLongBowMan wrote: Hello,
I’ve predominantly been a longbow man but I recently took the chance to buy one of Ron LaClair’s super shrew recurves (secondhand) so I did.
The problem is I shoot 3 fingers under but it seems this bow is tillered for split finger. Is there anything I can do to counter or compensate for this? I’d really love to get some arrows tuned for it and actually have it work 🙂
Thanks!
NZ
I don’t think you will see any difference in the way the bow shoots using a three finger under release. Some times the bow might be a little noisier than if shot with split finger but most do not see/hear any difference.
My experience shooting three under did not make any difference in arrow tuning. You might find that your normal knocking point on the string might have to be changed slightly.
Tillering limbs different is a practice left over from the all wood bow era. Bowyers would make the bottom limb stiffer so as to compensate for the stress put on the bottom limb when drawing. Excess stress on a wood bow limb would distort the limb. This was particularly noticeable on wood bows when un strung or in the relaxed position.
I know some will disagree with this statement:D but in a fiberglass bow difference in the limb tillering (top vs bottom ) is not necessary. There are some who “manufacturing” bows ignore differential tillering and make there limbs the same.:D
in reply to: Carbon Express Heritage 250 too weak? #28330FISH…..I think there is something else going on beside the arrow spine.
I shoot a reflex/deflex long bow, It is 55lb @ 28 inches .My draw is 28 inches on a normal day. I use carbon express 250 arrows cut to 29 !/4 .I have a 100 grn bras insert …75 grain titanium adaptor…..300 grain TH broadhead…..25 grain alum footing for a total weight of 500 grains up front.I use 4inch feathers straight fletch on the rear and threw away the nock collar they provided which eliminated 5 grains at rear of arrow.( any weight reduction on rear is magnified on front foc.) Final arrow is 750 total weight with 32% efoc.
May be some one can shed some light on your problem aa it does not correlate with my experience. I experimented with CE. 350 that were way to stiff for my set up.
This arrow works on bows that I have from 50 to 62 lbs At least I don’t see much difference…….Did I tell you I am a poor shot so I might not notice:D:D
in reply to: P&Y changes mind #26748[size=12 point]There is a argument for lighted knocks…it is a possibility that they would help in recovery of game. I do think this is a valid argument. My reseverations are as stated above when and where does it stop???
In this case or subject some will say that the majority prevailed in the vote so the minority is just out of step with the rest.
I don’t believe this to complete true. I think that most are becoming to passive to fight for their beliefs. It is defiantly a fight as lighted knocks was certainly lobbied for by commercial interest. When we realize this may be we will start fighting for our individual beliefs…………
[i]STAND FOR SOMETHING OR STAND FOR NOTHING[/i]
in reply to: P&Y changes mind #23708J.Wesbrock wrote: Joe:
On a side note, I won’t be at Compton this year. My daughter and I will be in South Bend that weekend for the NFAA outdoor sectionals. .
GOOD LUCK …HAVE FUN
in reply to: P&Y changes mind #23650J.Wesbrock wrote: I’m not the least bit concerned about it. Pope & Young is a private club and as such can include or exclude whatever they want from their record book. Unless I’m concerned about entering an animal into their book, it’s a moot point to me.
Jason you are correct saying the P&Y club is private and the can include or exclude what they want from their by-laws.
But if you look at the big picture P&Y is probably one of the most influential clubs around. State law makers ,conservation departments, etc. look to the club for guidance in their own rule making….
If you are concerned as Mad DOg Mike writes in the original post with lighted knocks used in Montana he is now on the wrong side of the argument as he will be reminded over and over the P&Y approves lighted knocks what is your problem. Like Mad Dog some of us are concerned that this is just the beginning. First 80% let off then lighted knocks…next lighted or laser sites ,than gps tracking arrows.It goes on and on. Some see no harm in these things as there are arguments pro and con on each one.I personal feel that being a traditional archer it changes the sport.I would also go as far to say that traditional and primitive archers should have separate hunting seasons as these high tech bows are akin to shooting a gun.
If You remember in a organization we both belong “the United Bowhunters of Illinois “ our equipment rules followed the P& Y rules down to the letter.That changed when P&Y went to 80% let off on compounds. The discussion at UBI was final resolved through vote not to go along with 80%.
That issue and others later prompted the UBI to become a traditional club only . Existing members were grandfathered in and could use compounds but not with 80% let off
NO compounds would not be allowed for new members….Not all would have bucked the system like UBI most will follow like sheep.
We all should be concerned of the stance that major organizations take ,,,like it or not it does have a effect on our sport.
Jason looking forward to seeing you at Compton 😀
in reply to: P&Y changes mind #22870‘”
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“‘DAVE I really can not argue your points as I agree with most.
I believe that the only way to fight for or better hunting seasons,restrictions on ATV’s ,restrictions on equipment ,etc. is through groups such as Compton,PBS,P&Y and local and state organizations.
It is unfortunate when a club weakens and strays from their core beliefs. All one can do is try to stay active and convince enough people what is right as we see it.
I remember meeting a guy that said he did not contribute to groups to fight for hunting. His thought was to take that money and go on more hunts. He said it was a loosing battle fighting the anti’s and he would put his money to better use.
I am not ready to roll just yet i have grandchildren that want to hunt.:D
in reply to: P&Y changes mind #22708[Dave good to see you posting …nothing like a hot subject to get one. fired up
I have been a P & Y member since 1989 The club has a lot of good qualities. Promoting conservation ,youth archery, and trying to promote hunting standards and ethics.
Glen Saint Charles was instrumental along with others like Fred Bear in the founding and promotion of the club …In the early years P&Y was influential in promoting archery equipment as legal weapons for hunting. With out the club and there members influence we might not have had archery hunting as we know it.
That being said like all organizations they evolve over the years into different organizations taking on different philosophies When I joined the club had a strong traditional influence but now leans more to the mechanical archer.
The young mechanical archer as they become qualified to vote on changes in the P&Y constitution their vote is influenced by their experiences and culture .
I am a “Senior Member ” of the club thus I have voting rights.
I voted against the lighted knock thing twice but it finally passed by a super majority.
Like Dave, I believe that this could be the beginning of a slippery slope of other mechanical/electronic things to come.
There are good arguments about recovery etc. That are made for lighted knocks but that can be made about other devices like crossbows.:x There will not be a end in the proposed changes of equipment as the new hunter is looking for the easy way …
I have friends that left P&Y over the 80% let off .they did not go quietly. Maybe there were not enough that took that route to have influence.
I prefer to follow my wife’s philosophy. She says she will” never give me a divorce as she intends to stick around and make my life miserable ” :D( this is a joke between us for 54 years ) Like Janice I plan to try to continue to influence the P&Y Club or at least to make they membership meetings fun or miserable depending on your point of view:D:D
in reply to: Activities for Kids at the Rendezvous #16206Webmother wrote: That is a good age for them to get started and I think they’ll have a blast at the shot
Robin you covered it well. My grandkids love it and look forward to it every year. They come with their parents who also love it.
Four of my eight grandkids will be there with their bows this year. I am not vending this year but working as a volunteer and playing archer with my grandkids.
Girls and boys love the structured bow lessons for all ages.For those that do not have a bow, bows are aviable.
Compton ,a traditional bowhunters organization ,orients this event for the whole family I do not know any one who has attended this event with kids that has been disappointed. There are great primitive camping facilities for tents and trailers on the same grounds that the activites are held. This is a premier event with a lot of venders attending.
If you do attend take Robin up on her invitation ,,,,every one gets a free hug:D…,,,:DNo not from TJ:D,,, LOL
As a side note Dr.Ed Ashby will be giving a seminar on Friday at 1:00 and will be the key note speaker Friday night.This is one of the best chances to explore FOC and ask your questions direct
There is a free chilli and hot dog supper one night and food is aviable at the club house for breakfast lunch and supper
On Sunday activités continue. There are also nondenominational church services on Sunday for those wising to attend.
For more information visit
http://www.comptontraditionalbowhunters.com
HOPE TO SEE YOU THERE
in reply to: Update on Larry Fischer vs The Bastard #7673LARRY you and Belinda are amazing! Your attitude, sense of humor, and the prayers that your friends are sending will sustain you through these hard times
You are an inspiration to others………THANKS
in reply to: Caroline & David Petersen #35867DAVE As an author and a master of the written word you know it is hard for some of us less talented people to put into words our feelings of sadness and sorrow for you. Know that our thoughts and yes prayers are with you.
Your friend
in reply to: Update on Larry Fischer vs The Bastard #24397Larry,Belinda and family
Keep the faith and keep fighting the fight. Prayers coming your way…I found that they are the best medicine.
in reply to: Caroline & David Petersen #23745Dave and Caroline my thoughts and prayers are with you.
I hope as others learn of Caroline’s progress they will keep us informed.
in reply to: Left Wing or Right Wing Helical? #19161R2 the wax suggestion is a good idea. Steve’s suggestion of using teflon tape makes a lot of sense. Any time you can minimize the potential for loosening you are doing a good thing.
If you never shoot you never get muffed shots!:D Muffed shots and hunting go together.But if you do hit the animal and you have done everything to ensure a perfect arrow set up you chances are better.:D The last word:D
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