[jpcarlson]

in reply to: To Foot or not to Foot #54559

Kevin, I appreciate that you make very nice Hardwood Arrows, and believe they won’t need a footing. The fact still stands that one cannot reach even moderately high FOC with a Hardwood arrow shaft without shooting unreasonably heavy broadheads in weights not being produced. That leaves those of us out there who wish to shoot high FOC arrows playing with Carbon arrow shafts, and Carbon arrow shafts need to be footed when they are FOC arrows. There is a cascading effect with all of this, like with many things in hunting. If you can shoot a high FOC arrow (and that means building it with the lightest, strongest shaft material available for your draw weight and point weight), you can use a lower weight bow and still have a more efficient arrow. This is all laid out and documented in Dr Ashby’s research.

JP

[jpcarlson]

in reply to: PSE Black Mamba arrows #7862

Steve,

Very interesting line of thought on this topic. I hope others with more insight and experience (just a couple who come to mind; Dr Ashby, Troy Breeding, etc) will tune in and share their thoughts and knowledge on this one.

I learned to build and tune FOC arrows 4 years ago and haven’t looked back.

I will share my findings and experience briefly to help the conversation along.

We all know within these circles, that FOC Mass pays more gains in arrow flight and penetration than speed. Dr Ashby’s research has shown us how and why, especially when the arrow meets resistance in the form of bone and soft tissues. The research also shows how having the high mass on the front end of the arrow literally “pulls” the arrow through the resistance medium.

I think some keys points of FOC arrows to remember are as follows;

They recover from paradox faster than a non FOC arrow, allowing more energy to be conserved to pull the arrow in a straight line towards the target.

This aids in less to no oscillation as the arrow enters an animal, again conserving energy and making the arrow more efficient as it is “drawn” through the hole it creates. The arrow/broadhead has an easier time passing through the animal and whatever resistance it meets.

FOC arrows are quieter, they absorb more energy from the bow and convert it to down range momentum.

FOC arrows are quieter due to requiring smaller A&A fletching to control them in flight.

FOC is more stable in flight when encountering cross wind, hitting grass or twigs due to the majority of the mass “drawing” it forward while not oscillating.

FOC arrows are more forgiving of poor form. Once you point that mass at an object, the mass is drawing it to your point of aim.

Dr Ashby’s YEARS of documented research have proven these facts. An arrow is way more efficient when being drawn to the target rather than pushed. That is why a tuned FOC arrow shot out of a 55# bow will out penetrate/perform a low FOC arrow shot out of an 80# bow.

Total mass in an arrow is less important/has less effect on efficiency and penetration than greater FOC in a lower mass arrow, to a certain degree. (ie At least 25% FOC and 650 grains total weight)

An arrow is a system of components and the total of adding those favorable FOC components up. (ie. Type of broadhead used, level of sharpness, tip angle and design, degree of proper tuning, external/internal footings for structural integrity, how many “weak links” are in the arrow system, etc)

Again, this is based on my interpretation of Dr Ashby’s research and lectures.

Do i want to shoot reproduction cedar BEAR arrows with Bear razor heads sharpened with a file and 5 1/2 inch shield cut feathers? You bet I do! They are historic, nostalgic, and plain sexy. Will they kill animals? You bet, many animals have died to such arrows. Will they perform well when I get a bad shot, hit bone, shoot in a heavy cross wind, or I hit a twig? Not nearly as well as a high FOC arrow. The proof is in the pudding. I have taken several animals with light FOC arrows, and lost some due to poor penetration and murphy’s law. I have taken several animals with high FOC arrows, and lost only one due to my own poor shot placement (one lung hit, animal made it to private property where I wasn’t allowed to search and recover). I have payed close attention to the wound channels and damage created by FOC arrows and sharp single bevel broadheads. They do their job very well and bring home the meat. They account for more uncontrollable factors which would normal result in a poor shot due to wind, deflections, animals taking a step, poor hits. Accuracy and penetration is the name of the game. FOC arrows do that.

My humble opinion is thus; develop the highest FOC arrow you can, which works best for you and the bow you are shooting, animal you are hunting, and stay over 25% FOC and 650 grains total weight.

I look forward to other thoughts

Jans

[jpcarlson]

in reply to: To Foot or not to Foot #19036

Another way to look at the question of “to foot or not to foot?” is easy to answer. Build a UFOC arrow, put a blunt or field point on the unfooted shaft that is the same weight of the broadhead you will use, and go and shoot something really hard! Try a stump, then a hardwood, then a fence post, then miss a target and hit a rock. Boom, your carbon shaft will mushroom out just behind the point. Without footing, you have lost all of the time invested in tuning that shaft, building the UFOC arrow, and now it is worthless. Not to mention what the good Doctor said, and the fact that sooner or later you will need that strength behind the heavy point of the UFOC arrow to hold it together while it goes through bone or impacts something hard. You can’t see the rocks on the other side of the animal where your arrow will end up after it passes through:)

Just my two cents, based on experience:)

JP

[jpcarlson]

in reply to: Dr ED ASHBY PERSONAL BOW GIVE AWAY #52078

Joe, is it too late to submit a story?

Jans

[jpcarlson]

in reply to: Let's See Your Fletching #11277

I have used the A&A fletch exclusively with UFOC/UEFOC arrows and single bevel broadheads for the past 3 years. The shorter ones with a turbulator work very well and are dead silent. They also tolerate a lot of moisture and still fly like darts.

The first ones are 2 3/4″, the second are 2 1/4″, the last ones which I use now are only 2″ but in a 4 fletch.

these are with tuned FOC arrows with broadheads on from 20 yards

[jpcarlson]

in reply to: The Trad Knife Thread #21457

I start with these; hand forged Norwegian knife blades with laminated edge steel.

Then we make these; Norwegian belt knives made by my father and I. We build the handle around the blade, then the sheath around the knife.

[jpcarlson]

in reply to: Get the Tradbow.com App! #60332

Good Morning Robin,

I just downloaded your Tradbow App to my Samsung Galaxy Tablet. So far so good, I’ll keep playing with it and get back to you if you would like feedback.

How are you guys doing out there with life moving on after a long fall and loss of close friends? You are all in my thoughts and prayers.

I wanted to thank you guys again for what you do:) It was a very different fall season for me compared to the past 38 seasons of my life:) My wife and I are both Police Officers in Rapid City, SD; it is a job that isn’t getting any easier or safer. We also have soon to be 3 year old twin girls (sigh for greatfullness, yet exhausting:) I was only able to get out for two early season hunts up in the Black Hilss here, and that on some new private and public ground I still am trying to figure out. My inner hunter is always active and longing for the good hunt and the adventure, but family and responsibilities took priority (my wife’s mother is only 54 and has advanced Alzheimers). Alas, I spent entirely more time thinking and dreaming of hunting than actually doing it and ended up eating a tag sandwhich:) I know the time for my girls and family are worth while and my kids are only young once. What got me through time and time again was the Traditional Bowhunter Magazine and reading the Campfire Forums. It might sound sappy, but Traditional Archery is my happy place when the world is falling apart around me (at work, or at home while twins battle it out:) Thank you for what you guys have built and maintained as a gathering place for great people, and the ethics and adventure of Tradtional Hunting we all share!

I hope the Idaho winter is slowing starting to loose her grip as the days are growing longer. As for me, I’m looking forward to attempting a much more active tradbow year in 2015 with Spring Turkey hunting coming up. We have lots of Muriam’s here in the hills. You all are welcome if ever you want to hunt some new country out here. I would be honored to host you, share some campfires, and fling some arrows:)

Keep up the great work and know it makes many of our lives richer!

Deepest regards,

Jans P. Carlson

South Dakota

[jpcarlson]

in reply to: My condolences Don #60304

Thoughts and prayers with you and yours Don. Your Mother sounds like an amazing woman who left the world and her family better for having been here a short while.

Jans

[jpcarlson]

in reply to: Bear Takedown #58404

Jim,

I have one of my Grandfather’s Bear take downs from around 1970. Magnesium riser, the long one I think which is the C riser if I’m not mistaken. It is 56″ long, 48#@28″. Draws about 51-52# for me. The take down system works great! Old Grandpa Bear knew what he was doing when he designed that one and I have never had any problems with it. I love the bow, but the limbs aren’t the most efficient. I’ll second saving up and going for a custom recurve take down or long bow from a good bowyer. Now that I have one, I am ruined and can’t go back:)

Jans

[jpcarlson]

in reply to: New bow to show off! #17294

The specs of this beauty are 62″ overall bow length, 59# @ 29″.

Bruce, we are headed out that way fishing soon, how’s the run off?

Jans

[jpcarlson]

in reply to: Turbulators #16657

Gentlemen, If memory serves, the goal when adjusting/testing the size of the fletching on tuned FOC arrows was to get the size down to as small as possible. This added significant FOC up front as a little off the back compounds to the front. The feather size one would end up shooting was the very shortest you could get away with that would still control a broadhead in a stiff cross wind, and account for a sloppy release. The arrow flight was supposed to be a little squirrely but be corrected by addition of the turbulator which in effect causes turbulence along the arrow shaft starting 1/4″ in front of your fletching. This made your small as possible fletching more effective as the feathers were able to “bite” into more of the turbulent air.

I have found with my own set up at around 32-34% UEFOC that I do not need them until my feathers get REALLY small:) I have one set fletched with 1 3/4 x .5″ feathers in a 4 fletch. The FOC on those are at 34%. I found I need the turbulator to stabilize the small fetching for hunting. Boy are they quiet with the small feathers!

Jans

[jpcarlson]

in reply to: Happy BD Dr. Ed! #46332

Happy Birthday Doc, even if it is a day late and a dollar short:) I’ll lift a nip of bourbon to your health (and mine) tonight after shift:) I like the way you start the mornings!

Jans

[jpcarlson]

in reply to: how good is good enough? #34260

And Solo, that is what makes this forum such an awesome place:) We get to walk amongst giants!

J

[jpcarlson]

in reply to: Noteable Quotes! #34117

I think it went something like “It is better to remain silent at times and have men wonder if you are a fool, then to open your mouth and extinguish any doubt”. Abraham Lincoln

J

[jpcarlson]

in reply to: resolution #28607

I am a trophy hunter until something else comes along:)

J

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