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in reply to: A whole new take on ethics #26270
DWC,
We have a similar situation in Illinois with respect to feeding and baiting deer; it’s banned year round. Regardless, you’d be hard pressed to find an outdoors store here that doesn’t sell bags of mineral supplements and prepackaged bait (C’mere Deer, Deer Cocaine [that’s a lovely name], etc.). It’s illegal to use, but not to buy and sell. A solution to that problem may seem simple, but it’s not.
The products marketed to grow big antlers are the ones that make me chuckle the most. The previously mentioned P.T. Barnum quote comes to mind. They remind me of something my maternal grandmother was fond of saying about how most fishing lures are made to catch fishermen, not fish. As if there was any doubt, I figured folks had lost their collective minds when I saw one of the major hunting industry companies started selling little packages of deer poop to hunters as an attractant. Seriously…deer poop. Yes, the proverbial shark has been jumped.
Forget the timber value of my property, now I have to rethink the acrage in terms of deer poop value. Maybe I can start selling poop harvesting rights like other folks make money off mushroom hunters. I can be the first deer turd outfitter in the state of Wisconsin! 😆
in reply to: Gap Method #25276lechwe wrote: I don’t really think the aiming method is going to help you at all long term to deal with target panic.
I agree wholeheartedly. I have yet to see any correlation between aiming styles and target panic. I’ve seen folks suffer with it who shoot anything from longbows instinctively up to and including compounds with sights and releases. There’s a reason why back tension releases are so popular with compound shooters – they are to a release shooter what a clicker is to a finger shooter. But like I posted earlier, try anything you can to beat it. There is no one-size-fits-all solution.
in reply to: Looking for some broadhead help #25270Dennis,
Sorry I didn’t see this thread sooner. I don’t know if you’re still looking for suggestions, but right off the top of my head I can think of two heads that would fit the bill for your friend. The first would be the Muzzy Phantoms, and the second would be Chris’ idea to try the new heads by Eclipse. I haven’t seen those new heads myself, but with their exceptional reputation for quality, I wouldn’t be the least bit leery of using anything they produce.
in reply to: INSTRUCTIONAL DVD??? #24816Like others have stated, MBB3 would be a good choice. The Modern Traditional DVD is a slightly different animal. It’s basically a string walking how-to DVD put out by Scott Antczak and Ty Pelfry. Modern Traditional is a great production, but it’s likely not what you’re looking for.
in reply to: The Amish and the Traditional #19539I didn’t make the choice to use recurves and longbows out of dislike for something else. I use them because I enjoy doing so.
And like Steve…I wish I had a GTO, preferably a ’64.
in reply to: Strap-on tree steps #61182I bought a bunch of strap-on steps many years ago to use on a public land hunt. I gave them away at the end of the season and bought a set of portable climbing sticks.
in reply to: The question of weight in our minds #59032Troy,
I wish I would have seen your question sooner. I just came back from the archery club. I could have shot a 40-yard target for 20 and had a number for you. Without doing that, I can’t give you an exact answer. But I can tell you that my point-on is 40 yards and my gap at 20 yards is 19 inches at the target.
in reply to: The question of weight in our minds #58848Troy,
I understand what you’re saying, and I’m glad you clarified that statement. With respect to the arch of an arrow, of course a heavier arrow will drop more than a lighter one. Newton figured that our hundreds of years ago. So then the question comes down to what an archers feels is acceptable, and how that increased drop will affect his/her accuracy at unknown distances.
My initial thought on that is there’s a reason why top 3D shooters don’t use 12gpp arrows. Then again, hunting with 5gpp arrows probably isn’t a great idea either (assuming a bow can handle them). That probably explains why my arrows average arounf 9gpp.
in reply to: The question of weight in our minds #58784Troy Breeding wrote:
“What about those times when I know I can’t get closer and have to reach out and shoot a further distance”?
Troy,
I’ve heard the same type of question too, and my reaction is always this: unless someone is starving, they don’t “have” to take any shot at a healthy animal. Whenever I hear someone qualify a marginal shot choice by saying something along the lines of “It was the only shot I had” then I immediately know that’s someone with whom I’d prefer not to hunt. There’s a difference between making a bad shot and taking a bad shot. Instead of trying to expect our equipment (and that goes for fast and light arrows as well as slow and heavy ones) to bail us out of dumb decisions, perhaps it would be best to stop making those decisions in the first place.
in reply to: Gap Method #57834bruc wrote: I’m very intrigued by all of this:!:
I have had an ongoing battle with target panic and feel for the most part that I have it under control with the help of a clicker. Wondering if this system might help me with my little “demon” or hinder?
Wondering what % approximate of archers use this system?
Appreciate your responses !
Bruce.
Bruc,
I can tell you in my case that going to a clicker literally made the difference between continuing with traditional archery and hanging it up. I can’t imagine that switching from instinctive to gap would help one bit since I know as many gap shooters as instinctive shooters who struggle with target panic. But if there’s one thing I’ve learned about target panic over the years it’s that there’s no one-size-fits-all solution, so trying most anything to control it is worth the effort.
in reply to: Coues kill — arrow set-up #57831Dave,
For the record, I never sated anything about low poundage, multiblade flat-sharpened heads and elk. Whitetails? Yes. I think the history books answered that questions decades ago, and biologically speaking, whitetails haven’t changed. Although, what constitutes low poundage depends on whom you ask. I try not to speak about things with which I have no experience. In those cases it’s best to ask questions, not give answers.
In the end, we all should strive for the best setups we can find. Kudos to anyone pursuing that path. Unfortunately, I have seen all too often where folks find what works best for them—whatever that setup may be—and promote it with blinders firmly affixed. There is a local guy who is a friend of a friend, so we find ourselves sharing deer camp occasionally. He’s not shy about stating that nothing smaller than the 1-1/2” three-blade heads he uses should be allowed on whitetails, even though my recovery distances (I use 1-3/16” two-blade heads) average less than his. To him, my traditional equipment is unethical, so I don’t even discuss it with him anymore. I remember a few years ago reading on another site where someone credited a pass through on a whitetail doe fawn, in which he hit nothing heavier than a rib, on his Ashby-inspired arrow setup. Seriously…a whitetail doe fawn. I hit the back button on my browser and went on to another thread because that discussion had already gone downhill.
Internet forums can be excellent sources of information and discussion as long as everyone acts like an adult. Unfortunately, this is one of the few sites where that happens. Personally, I enjoy it when people counter my experiences with different points of view. That’s how we learn and grow as individuals. I’ve never been one to dig my heels in get defensive over differences of opinion (at least not since I was a teenager and knew everything), and I often forget that not everyone is that way.
in reply to: Gap Method #57588Troy Breeding wrote: J.
If Rod is now offering the method you describe then he must have changed his way of teaching since he worked with me several years ago.
Not saying it’s right or wrong, just different than in the past.
Troy
Troy,
I don’t know how Rod taught back then, but that was what he explained on Masters of the Barebow. I just rechecked, and it was actually volume one, which came out in 2006.
in reply to: Coues kill — arrow set-up #56988Dave,
First and foremost, congrats on your Coues deer. I’ve never had occasion to hunt them in particular, but since they are simply a smaller subspecies of an animal with which I have considerable experience killing (whitetail deer), I feel it appropriate to share a few thoughts.
Regarding penetration on spine shots, unfortunately I have some experience with them on whitetails. To be honest, it takes very little to penetrate a vertebra and sever the spine. The first time I had it happen was on a mature doe that tried to string jump but wasn’t quite fast enough. With a 40-year old recurve and a 2215 tipped with a four-blade Zwickey Eskimo, penetration was no problem. Since then I can recall three other whitetails that I killed with accidental spine shots. All of them with basic 125-grain heads, and all ended with the broadhead exiting the far side of the animal.
As a matter of fact, the elk I killed in Colorado several years ago died the same way: bad shot through the spine, animal down on the spot, broadhead out the far side. My carbon arrow weighed about 520 grains and was tipped with an aluminum adapter and a 125-grain Ace Standard.
With respect to large, three-blade heads sharpened on a flat surface, two acquaintances of mine (one of whose father invented that particular brand of broadhead) hunted bull moose in BC several years ago with them. Both guys killed nice bulls with complete pass throughs. One of the bulls took the first shot, walked a few steps and stopped to look back (as the sometimes do), so the hunter sent a second arrow through the moose.
Please don’t take this the wrong way, but if you couldn’t get one of those heads through a Coues deer (which full grown is about the size of a Midwestern whitetail doe), something else was to blame aside from the broadhead. My paternal grandfather hunted for decades with a recurve pulling 42# @ 26” and had no problem putting three-blade heads on swagged aluminum shafts through whitetails year after year.
Again, congrats on your fine deer. He sure looks like a dandy.
in reply to: Gap Method #56968I didn’t read all the replies, but all you need to find your gaps is a dot on the wall and a tape measure. Pick a yardage, use the tip of your arrow like a sight pin on the dot and shoot. Once you get a group, measure how far above or below the dot your group falls. That’s your gap. Nothing to it. If your arrows are hitting (for example) 12″ above the dot at 20 yards, you know you have to hold the tip 12″ under your intended target at that distance.
For a good visual explanation, check out the Masters of the Barebow DVD series. If I recall, volume two is where Rod and Larry go into detail about their gap methods.
in reply to: Effective Range/Max effective range #56726Th reality is that an arrow is lethal at distances far exceeding what most anyone would consider responsible for attempting to kill a healthy animal. As I recall, Hill once wrote about killing an elk at 185 yards with a straight-limbed longbow and a wood arrow.
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