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in reply to: ok thinking of trying carbons again #25354
OK edited my first post for typo’s. Sorry about that, I entered it with my phone and sometimes the display doesn’t let me scroll the screen so I cannot see what I typed.
Well today I gave it another shot. I am not really sure what I did different, but now I have excellent flight, with the slight exception of nock high still, which was my nemesis in the first attempt. I did reduce it considerably this time, but it’s still there to the tune of about 1-2″ at 15yds, bare shaft.
One thing I did NOT try, because I just now thought of it, was to play with the brace height. Maybe in a few days I will give that a shot. But I do know that can affect the spine tuning of the bow as well.
Overall I am VERY happy with todays outcome. I can get better groups at 25yds with these new arrows than I was getting with the older low FOC setups before at 20yds.
The arrows are as follows. Length is 27 15/16″, total weight is 680gr with my 290gr field points (my Grizz’s weigh 309gr with adapters, so that will up total hunting weight to 699gr) and 130gr steel inserts. I did my measurements and calculated (as close as possible) the FOC as slightly over 30%. I am a happy camper.
Now if I can figure out the nock high issue, I am THINKING it might flatten the trajectory just a tad, am I right on that assumption? Seems if the arrow wants to kick tail high, even slightly, that it might be forcing the nose down prematurely. At least that’s my theory. Am not sure how much dampening effect the feathers have on the tail kick. The fletched arrows seem to enter pretty level.
Now my brother in law has some yard killing pigs, so if I can just get a shot at one.:D I want to purposely hit the hard shoulder gristle for testing purposes.
They are mostly night visitors but once in a while they come just before sunset. I would like to try to get one with my recurve and the heavy FOC arrows, and also get one with my 60lb Mathews compound and standard FOC (12% I believe) and compare penetration. I am using Magnus 2 blade stingers with the Mathews. They do have the Tanto tip, so it ought to be a pretty fair comparison.
If I can get this done, I will post the details of the arrows of both.
in reply to: Hammerhead test #24460Dave
On the wood weight issue, to your knowledge, has anyone ever pressured treat any wood shafts? Was wondering if a woodie could be pressure treated with some sort of flexible poly for the first 4 or 5 inches, to make them more resistant to breaking.
Just an idea than rattled around in my head.
in reply to: Brace height changes affecting EFOC flight? #22825Why Doc Nock, are you accusing us of getting off course, the nerve! 😀 yea it’s easy to see where we veered off course.
Sometimes the off course runs are educaring, sometime just frustrating. You have a good attitude. Honestly, personally, I had never paid much attention to that particular issue, probably because I had too many other things causing poor arrow flight (like the shooter maybe?).
While wemay not have completly answered your ORIGINAL question, maybe eliminating the creep alltogether, makes it a non issue. Yea yea thats how we solve your problem:D
Sound logic huh
in reply to: nock high? #21044Wolfshead wrote: I shoot 3 under too and was experiencing the same problem of nock high.
I moved my nock point to 3/4 of an inch and that helped tremendously.
not sure what you have yours set at but I was playing around 1/4 to 1/2 or so and it just was making me nuts then someone told me to start at 3/4 for 3 under and that helped.
hope this helps
Just an FYI, I think when shooting with a 3/4″ high nocking point, you could also shoot vanes with little or no noticeable effect on arrow flight. I say this only cause some guys want to shoot vanes in wet weather.
in reply to: A short rant about KE… #18344No I think it’s the KE issue, mostly. You wouldn’t believe the comments guys make about old rounds like the 30-30 and how ineffective it is because it’s not a “flat” shooter.
They have been sold a bill of goods on the minimum of ft lbs required for this or that game animal. The fact is I know of ranchers today that use a 22lr on deer. Not to get into the obvious legal issues, the end results are dead deer. They shoot in the lungs, the deer runs about 30 yds and stands there a min or two then falls over dead. My point with all that is it does not take nearly the power folks have been lead to believe it takes to kill something.
My personal opinion, whether its archery or firearms, it is brought on by laziness or lack of practice or experience. Or a mix of all three.
To explain, the laziness comes from not practicing, not willing to learn the trajectory of a chosen round. That is a result of less practice or saying I want to zero at 100yds and know I can hit at point XXX at 300yds, without ever firing a round at 200yds, much less 300. The lack of experience is from doing neither of the above, and believing everything they read in the magazines about the new laser beam round they purchased.
I’ve had co-workers, in the past, try to tell me how much flatter x round was over Y round, and when I show them ballistics tables comparing those rounds most are dumbfounded. Usually, when using premium components, there’s not a hands width of difference in impact points at 300yds between rounds like the 270 Win all the way to the big magnums. On paper there can be some fairly significant differences in……kinetic energy, but bullets, just like broadheads, often determine the final result, in penetration and tissue damage. There is no perfect combination for everything. You usually give up either trajectory, energy, penetration, something, to get a desired effect. Usually every load is a compromise of something. As with arrows, a very light arrow, as 3D shooters discovered (or re-discovered) they could judge distance less accurately, and still win, but their bows were loud, and the shock usually destroyed the bow. Hunters use a heavy arrow but understand it puts the “arch” back in archery.
On the military front, there are other issues. Having carried an M1A in service, and an M-16, I can tell you without a doubt I prefer to carry the 5.56 ammo, but MUCH prefer the M1A rifle. A soldier can carry twice the 5.56 ammo when compared to the 7.62, and for them numbers mean getting out alive. When we only carry 10-20 rounds into the woods, it doesn’t much matter what caliber they are.
Since most battles are fought within 100 meters the 5.56 can get it done, but there is a definite need for the 7.62 as well. Personally I hated the M-16 but I am a lefty, so that is a nuther story.
in reply to: Brace height changes affecting EFOC flight? #18314I stopped using skinny strings when I sold my High Country double hatchet cam compound. I had to retune that bow once a month.
I use heavier, endless strings on all my trad bows, and never have an issue with string creep. I can see string stretch affecting the spine, due to a (slightly) increased power stroke. Your arrows may be tuned right on the brink of weak spine and this is enough to send them into a tailing flight when the stroke is increased.
I do not have the qualifications of many that have spoken here, but I personally, would take at least one arrow, and shorten it in small increments, like 1/8 or 1/4″ until I got too stiff of spine. Then I would cut the others to the mid point from the old length. This should give you more leeway for the brace height. Your setup seems awfully touchy to me.
I use B50 endless strings, and I have had the same string on for 2 years, and it hasn’t stretched enough to make a difference.
I would go to a heavier string (it will be quieter too) no matter what material you use. To me ANY small gain a lighter string gives, is not worth the hassles it causes.
in reply to: A short rant about KE… #17082Well if it makes ya feel any better, the rifle guys aren’t any smarter. There’s those that feel a 80gr, 6mm bullet at 3500fps is better on big game than a 400gr .458 bullet at 1700fps. It will out penetrate it shoots flatter yada yada.
Funny all those dead Bison might disagree with them.
in reply to: A short rant about KE… #16548I agree, but I do think you’re preachin to the choir here….
in reply to: Finally got good arrow flight #16547Ptaylor wrote: Sounds like a sweet location. Looking forward to seeing some photos!
Well it seemed like one anyway, but after many sits at the stand and seeing NOTHING, I’m beginning to think they are using it late at night.
A real bummer, I finally pulled the stand from that area. Season (archery only) is over on Aug 4th, I think, somewhere around then, so I might take a slow walk through the area, only the next hill over. I have hunted that area numerous times in the past, with a lot of sign, but have yet to see an animal.
The deer are all over here. I drove to my stand the other day and on the way there, I jumped 3 bucks, with a 2×2, a 3×3, and I am pretty sure one was at least a 4x? but too far to tell for sure. Those three guys were with 4 does. That was about 150yds from my house but on land I do not yet have permission to hunt :(, sadly. I am working on that, but not too optimistic, since the owner is a vegan :cry:.
Oh well, life goes on.
in reply to: Cougar tips? #14426Never hunted cats but if it were me, knowing these guys are known to have lost some of the fear of humans, I’d carry a levergun, 30-30 minimum caliber. Larger dia bullets would be preferred, like 38-55/375 Win or 45-70. If it were sport it would be different, but I’d take my tip from the guides in Africa, and go big or go home.
Me personally, I’d take my Marlin 1895 45-75 stoked with 300gr loads running about 2000fps.
in reply to: Bows in the Military #13373Crossbows were used in Vietnam, to some degree, but with the current availability of sub sonic ammo and the very effective suppressors out now, the special ops guys carry that instead. You can carry a weapon like the 300 AAC Blackout and have both sub and supersonic ammo, and use it from the same gun depending on mission needs.
So, no, I can’t see a good use for them today.
in reply to: Finally got good arrow flight #13324It’s public land, but it’s landlocked BLM land. I live on a private dirt road that has a locked gate at the main road, and only residents and their guests come in. As you might have guessed I am very fortunate. I have a small lot (3 acres) but the folks around me have big lots, like 160 each, and one fellow has 320. i have almost exclusive access to two of the 160 acre parcels and am working on the guy with 320, but am not hopeful on that one. Oh well can’t have everything.
On the pigs, I have been batting zero out there so far. However, my wifes’ sister has them coming onto her place and rooting up their plants and grass. Problem there is they don’t come in till about 1:30AM or later. I was there a few nights back and about 20 of them came through. A real sight to see.
One tip you might try, if you get to some public land, that has a dry river bed through it. These pigs make their entrance from the river bed close to my sister in laws house.
If I manage to get one from my tree stand I will most assuredly post pics of it, trad bow or not.
in reply to: Arizona E Z Fletch #9440I have never had much luck with tape, since so many others have, it must be me.
I use the AZ EZ fletch, and try using paste wax on the arms before using them with the glue.
I use paste wax on parts I am gluing up to make bow limbs and they never have stuck yet.
I think you might be using too much glue, since it shouldn’t get on the arms.
in reply to: shaft sleeve fit problem with Tuffheads #63079Concerning the “step up” I was talking about the bumping you mentioned when using the recommended 4″ long footing instead of the 2″. I knew there was no step at the head, you’d covered that pretty well in your post.
Another soultion might be to have a tapered sleeve that the head glues right onto instead of the wood. Then when you unglue the broadhead, you glue on the field point. That would be even stronger than your current setup.
in reply to: shaft sleeve fit problem with Tuffheads #61987This might be counter intuitive, but here goes. I know the object of the sleeve is to strengthen the shaft, but if there is a way to turn the last 4″ of the shaft down so a sleeve (not the current ones, they would be too large in dia.) would fit FLUSH with the wood shaft. That way, you can use a 4″ sleeve, and have no bump, and also push the sleeve right up to the beginning of the point taper.
Other than a wood lathe, am not sure how you would turn them though.
Now instead of cutting the shaft to shrink it, could one make a clamp out of steel blocks to COMPRESS the forward end of the shaft? This would not weaken the shaft as much.
Are you dead set on glue on heads? Could you shorten the wood shaft about an inch, and make the sleeve an inch longer, with a threaded insert in the front of it. Then a screw in adapter could be added to the head for even more FOC.
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