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in reply to: Can someone explain this? #19580
Geeze, what a good thread, based on a good honest question. All of you, in my opinion, answered well and honestly out of personal experience. Mudfish said it well in fewest words. Steve Sr. said it in most beautiful detail. All that’s left for me to say is, to paraphrase the Doc, “We can never be overprepared.” Tree, check out some of the posts about successful hunts in recent weeks using an Ashby setup that wouldn’t have been successful otherwise. For those hunting only whitetails and smaller pigs, you sure don’t need the full nine yards. But at the least I’d go with the Doc’s advice on broadheads (two-blades, long and narrow and hard) and high FoC. That way your arrow can still be overall pretty light (again, we’re talking smallish whitetails and pigs) but have great penetration and bone-resistance; a reasonable compromise I don’t know if Doc would agree to but I think he would. There are so many variations to consider! Basically, assuming you’re hunting “light big game,” you can usually get away with Ashby-inefficient arrow setups. So, do you want to stick with that and hope for “perfect arrow flight and shot placement,” or increase your arrow horsepower a bit and feel confident if (a) buck fever prompts you to take less than a “perfect” shot, and/or (b) something goes wrong, beyond your self-control’s control (that is, as or after you release). I’ve frankly found out I shoot better with heavier arrows and it takes only a concentrated bit of practice to rewire the hand-eye-brain connection to the slightly increased trajectory. And the increased accuracy of EFoC arrows is simply amazing. To answer your own questions to your own best satisfaction, I’d suggest getting a reasonable Ashby set-up and giving it a try. After that, rather than asking you’ll be in a position to speak from experience. Dave
in reply to: Oh so close – yet so far! #19559Hey Tree — whatcha doing out there in the grass, with the woods so close behind the deer? Ah, you wanted to be visible in the video! 😆 dave
in reply to: Hello to all–just signed up #19556Welcome Nick. It’s great to have someone on this site other than me who clearly has a great sense of humor! :D:D:D Dave
in reply to: A happy camper? NOT! Dumb move! #15198Well, I apologize for busting into this “all Steve” thread :), but I wanted to compliment all of your on your ethics and honesty … the former being in simplest form in my simple mind simple empathy for the animals we hunt. Honesty with ourselves is even harder to come by and for me, both will always remain noble if often frustrating struggles.
But back on Steve track: Look how awfully most humans die! Sterile scary hospitals, weird pumping machines, beeping machines, poop in our pants, stranges in ghostly white clothes handling us sterily like products on a production line, artifically keeping us “alive” long after we want to just go to sleep and finally be free of it all! By comparison, hunted wild animals have it “easy,” suffering either not at all at best, or only moments or minutes usually and rarely more than hours … while it can be years for us and our loved ones and due to self-awareness of our own mortality, far more painful. Not to excuse any slop on our end when hunting! But as mentioned in an Ashby forum post earlier today, what Steve Sr. calls the “shooting mode” can take us absolutely over at times. So while maturity as a hunter involves struggling honestly to overcome that heat-of-the-moment urge to shoot (which isn’t always wrong, that urge), wll come on brothers! it will sooner or later, more or less often, for all of us! Thus here, via Steve’s honest telling, is another example of Ashby’s urging us to prepare via arrow set-up for “worst case scenaries” when the cliched “perfect arrow flight and shot placement” fail us. They have, they do and they always will, at times fail us. That’s when a mega-horsepower arrow setup can save the ethical day as well as the meat. Not that we should take any extra chances because we’re shooting a bigger gun. Anyhow all you Steves, I’m with you on all points. Thanks. Dave
in reply to: Ashby set-up on elk — success report #15057Steve Sr. — the “taking shots we otherwise wouldn’t” due to the radically increased horsepower of a solid Ashby arrow set-up is indeed a new and major ethical issue we should all openly and honestly discuss. Thanks for bringing it up, as it’s clearly happening, for better or worse. Note that Kirby says the close range, 14 yards, was the only reason he dared it. (And Michael, there is one great kill shot I’ll post for Kirby once I get it on Photobucket, but no bloody details of arrow results.) My own hunt falls into this same category, insofar as I shot a bull on the last day of the season from 6 feet as it whirled to run. Would I have taken that same shot without the confidence of an Ashby setup? Probably, due to close range and last-day pressures. Though I’m not proud to say so I know from experience that we all are susceptible to getting “over-excited” not to mention over optimistic when the adrenaline coctail goes down. But would the story have had a successful end with my pre-Ashby arrow setups? I seriously doubt it. What a slippery subject is personal hunting eithers! Esp. if we try to be honest with ourselves and the world. Anyhow, details with photos on my hunt from an Ashby pov to come soon. Almost happy hour here. Here’s a “hero” pic for now.
Davein reply to: Waterproofing Fletching #12865I’m with quiverfull and greatree — first, what do you mean by “synthetic?” Assuming turkey feathers (factory dyed, but otherwise “natural”) I have tried virtually everything, including “duck oil” squeezed from ducks in a press! 🙄 I’ve found that all liquids and spray-ons have the disadvantages, one or more, of adding weight to the back end of the arrow, thus defeating EFoc, making the feathers stiff, collecting grit. I’ve found nothing that works better than the powder, and one application generally last through an entire monthlong season, even a rainy one like this year. Worst case scenario — shoot ’em wet. You’ll get a “pop!” sound and a spray of water on your face, but they seem to fly just fine.
On a closely related topic, I can’t imagine how bowhunters in the Pacific NW manage to get the job done and have a good time doing it, with so much rain and the jungly vegetation that goes with it. Once it’s raining hard enough I have to put up the hood on my rainsuit — can’t hear or see much that way — the hunt is over for me. Yet the get it done. Which is to say, while feather waterproofing is a valid concern, in my experience it dwindles in comparison to trying to find a rainsuit that will keep you dry and warm yet not be noisy and restrictive … and not be too bulky and heavy to pack with you most all the time (in the Rockies, you have to most of the time, as storms are so unpredictable and come up so fast).
OK, enough. Time to take the lovely wife to town for the promised post-monthlong hunt dinner at eatery of her choice where elk is not on the menu! She earned it, though for the rest of the year it’s “Let her eat elk!” Yum. dave
in reply to: 4 wheelers, Dave Peterson #12482Clay — Until a few years ago the CO regs were Filled with ATV ads. A bunch of us hunters got together and launched a campaign against this, and lo and behold today the regs are ATV free. Those of you who still belong to RMEF should do the same re Bugle’s ATV ads. Ethically, that group has really gone down the tubes in recent years … but that’s another gripe. In fact, my backpack timberline muley hunt this year was spoiled not by ATVs, but by a constant stream of mountain bikers running the CO Trail. Wilderness is the Only place left we can get away from the wheely crowds, and the bikers are launching a push for access and blocking new wilderness. Never expected that, but it is what it is. dave
in reply to: Posting Pictures in the Forums #12460Thanks for this review, Robin. Is there any way to copy multiple pics at once so you don’t have to keep bouncing between photobucket and here? dave
in reply to: 4 wheelers, Dave Peterson #11691Centaur — You obviously are among the “good” ATV users, but still I must agree with those who wonder how in hell our best public lands backcountry, even on roads and authorized trails, ever was allowed to become a “legitimate use.” It’s purely inappropriate. A researcher friend of mine who’s tracking motorized impacts (on roads as well as off) on elk has coined the term “vehicle spawning.” In the old days, there were one or two vehicles in a camp and the hunters who didn’t want to hunt on foot out of camp worked it out to be dropped off and picked up at dark. Now, those one or two vehichles each pull a trailer with 2 or 4 ATVs and suddenly, rather than one vehicle running the roads we have 5; rather than 2 we have 10. That’s why I always complain about “ATV abuse and overuse.” Even the riders who obey the laws and try to minimize the problems they create, still are part of the problem. Withal, I agree with Larry. If you can get there in a regular vehicle on authorized forest roads, have at it. Otherwise, vehicles have no place in our public backcountry, well intended and law abiding or not. It’s simply inappropriate and if nothing else, ruins the mood and experience for the rest of us who are looking to escape the sound of motors and the crowds such easy access brings. Larry is older than shit and I’m twice as old. Larry really screwed up his knee trying to lift a million pounds and I have the usual arthritis etc. that comes with old age. Yet we walk everywhere, and haul it out on our backs. No criticism intended, Centaur, but only trying to explain how it feels, and sounds, to those of us who have lost so much to ATV abuse and overuse. By the way, a “roadless” area isn’t absolutely roadless as many have unauthorized “roads” resulting from abandoned logging roads, etc. And way too many have authorized ATV and dirt bike trails. But still, they’re our best bet. Again this year that’s where I got my bull … after the Pyrodex rifle mobs hit their starters, pressed down their thumbs and motored away. Hey, it’s no fun being so negative, but after my wife and dogs, I’ll fight to the death to protect my hunting space! Cheers, dave
in reply to: 4 wheelers, Dave Peterson #10656Hiram and SDMF — I am surprised and disappointed that there are only the two of you on this thread! There is no greater “threat” (in fact, it’s no threat but a reality) to traditional bowhunting on public lands today than ATV abuse and overuse. Even the legal riders — not just a “few bad apples” but most of the whole damn orchard it seems! — are messing things up for us all, including themselves because there are way too many of them out there, riding way too much. DOW was right to send you to the FS as it’s that agency’s primary responsibility to enforce OHV laws on public lands. But they have only one officer for a huge area and he’s notoriously lazy. However, a lot of folks including me and the state OHV group leaders worked hard and a year ago got legislation passed that authorizes DOW wardens to bust illegal ORV users … so at the least the person in the DOW office should have also told you they would alert the warden responsble for Missionary Ridge, a great guy named Drayton Harrison.
This is happening to more and more real hunters all over the country, on public land and private. Many are outraged … but so few get involved in fighting it! In that way, “we” deserve the crapping-on that we’re getting from the motorheads, who are organized and determined to continue and expand their slob sport. This lack of widespread hunter oppositiion to the motorized take-over really frustrates and disheartens those relative few of us who do fight back. Check out http://www.backcountryhunters.org for the leading national group working against ATV abuse and overuse (check their ads in every issue of TBM, bless TBM), and for CO specifically go to http://www.coloradobackcountryhunters.org.
Thanks guys for bringing up this topic, and all of you other trad brothers who read but haven’t commented … please, don’t just cluck your tongues in agreement with our plight, but join us to fight back!
This year, the only two trad bowhunters I’ve talked to around here who killed elk — Thomas Downing and myself — both put out the effort to get far away from the motors. It’s hard to road camp and do that, as we always could until a decade ago when the motors took over. If we don’t fight back hard right now, we’ll lose it all to the lazy and willfully ignorant. That’s us as well as them. That’s the world we live in. “Use the ‘quads’ God gave you!” Dave
in reply to: Become a part of the Ashby studies! #10641Amigos — got some telling hunt stories and photos coming soon re Ahsby arrow setup on elk hunts and how they’ve performed so far on elk, my own included (yep, I’m blessed to be eating elk again this year). Gotta “pay the man” first, but soon. Never forget (as I too often have done under pressure) to Pick a spot! dave
Joe — thanks for this excellent report (and good hunting story) of your success under duress of bad luck. Did the head simply penetrate the spinem, or did it crack or split the bone in any way? We’d love to hear that important detail, with pics if possible.
Your experience, as King and others have commented, emphasizes the arrogance of saying “all that counts is a sharp broadhead and good placement.” That statement tells me the writer ain’t hunted much and is unfamiliar with Murphy’s Law, which rules the hunting universe!:P
Soon’s I get dug out of the grave of “real job” work after a month of hunting vacation, I’ll start posting similar “could be a disaster but turned out to be a winner because I used the right arrow set-up” stories from recent hunts, including my own!
While it’s gratifying to be able to say “we got it right!” when things go wrong, what we are after here is the very best truth we can sort out. So if you used a full-on Ashby setup and it failed you, please don’t hesitate to show and tell us! Good stuff, thanks, dave
in reply to: Oh so close – yet so far! #57746Shot placement on that buck looks just about perfect, Tim. Congratulations!
Clay, man can I empathize, having enjoyed that experience, very similar, a couple of times in the past 3 weeks. Was within 8′ of a decent 5×5, crouching and I thot if he came another step closer I’d get flooded with his drool. No shot op due to dense oakbrush and a cow he was herding. A few days later I took a shot at another 5×5 from an evening waterhole stand. But I was forced to sit flat on my butt on the ground and he’d moved a bit to the left of my window before presenting a perfect broadside looking the other way — my lower bow limb hit an aspen sapling on release and the arrow went way low. Passed a couple or sure shots on cows, holding out for a nice bull. Can’t count the miles walked and stalked, evevation climbed, and hours sitting on stand. Down to the last week now and hoping with this cold snap and black powder season finally over they’ll start bugling good again so I can go after another experience similar to yours. Question is, do I continue holding out for a nice bull, or go for the meat at this point. For now I”ll use the pack-out principle. If a cow or small bull offers a good shot with an easy pack out, I’ll probly take it. The farther up the mountain I go, the better the reward has to be for the pack out. Last day, next Sunday, anything goes. Now let’s all get back out there! I will be within the half hour. dave
in reply to: Problems with my release again !!!!!! #54465So many possibilities …
I have bad shooting days and good days. I always hope for a good day when hunting! Try moving closer and getting back on target then backing slowly away.If it makes you feel better, the other night I took a shot at a 5×5 bull elk, 18 yards or so. Sitting on ground, had to lean out around some saplings to make the shot. Canted the bow to do it but wasn’t aware I was canting. Bottom bow limb hut a sapling “Whack!” and arrow missed by a mile. Good days and bad days. Yesterday I almost got on a bugling 6×6 in a hail storm but both he and I got tired of getting pounded at the same time and headed for respective trees. Who knows what today’s hunt (after a week of all-dayers, I slept in this morning) will bring. Best, dave
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