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in reply to: Center Shot ain't always good! #37244
Ed said: “EFOC/Ultra-EFOC arrows, even when shot from a bow having no sight window cut into the bow at all, recover from paradox as quickly (or more quickly) that a normal FOC will from a true center shot bow.”
OK, Ed, as your crash-test dummy, I must ask what exactly are you saying here? That my homemade longbows with no centershot perform with EFoC arrows just as well as a centershot bow … or are you saying that with my near-centershot Shrew longbows I might get better flight — and/or be able to get good flight with higher FoC on a given arrow without that arrow falling underspine — by building out the back of the rest plate? Or all the above? Or am I missing it entirely? 😕 dave
in reply to: Kalamazoo Traditional Bowhunters Expo #37231Pictures? No stinking picture? We need pictures! 😉
in reply to: tungsten-footed woodies; considerations #36880Clay, I’ll let you know about spine change when I get that far with the project. It seems logical that 3.5″ of hard metal rod up front would in itself add some to the spine … or possibly transfer the flexibility back toward mid-shaft and amplify it. I’d be surprised if Dr. Ed doesn’t have a take on this. Also, I am using laminated hex-shafts of pine and footings, which may make my spine results different from a standard PO cedar. We’ll see as soon as my drilling jig arrives. dave
in reply to: Fast Flight String and Bow Life #36861What Steve said. It’s the older glass bows that are at risk from the extra shock of FFS. I use it on all my homemade bows — the ones that haven’t blown up, at least! 😆
in reply to: America's Vanishin Silent Spaces #35531Thanks for this SD. Certainly he is right about the inescapability of air traffic, and the fact that given all we do to provide places to escape to unspoiled, naturally “silent” wilderness it would complete that picture to reroute air traffic around. I recall hunting elk through the 9-11 air traffic shut down. At first even the animals were freaked out with suddenly zero air traffic. But that changed fast and by the second day of “silence” the woods sounded sweeter than I’ve ever “heard” them anywhere, including AK which is buzzing with bushplanes. My own greatest concern re unnatural sounds in nature is ATVs and dirt bikes when they get off roads and go miles into what otherwise would be natural/quiet backcountry. Another researcher in this arena goes the other way and measures not the addition of unnatural/manmade sounds in nature, but the loss of natural sounds such as bird species, wolves, whatever, as a way to measure ecological depletion. It’s called “biophony” bio=natural and phony=sound. Coincidentally I have a Campfire Philosopher on that very topic in the pipeline. Dave
Yeah — where you at, Daniel. Let us know all is OK on your end! dave :?:D
in reply to: Enough for Elk?????? #33519Stick — Thomas D. is among the finest, most experienced and successful tradbow elk hunters I’ve known, and I agree with all he says here. And he too BTW is a dedicated BW shooter. To take it a bit farther, yes of course you CAN kill elk with that weight bow or less, and even with poor arrow set-ups. But for those of us who feel strong respect for these great animals we hunt and for ourselves as hunters and humans, CAN doesn’t cut it. What we want is WILL. If you are limited for physical reasons for shooting no more than 46 pounds and are determined to hunt elk with that bow, then in my unhumble opinion the onus is heavy on you to study and follow Dr. Ashby’s recommendations on maximizing lethality of your arrow set-up. The lighter the bow, the heavier the arrow required, the higher FoC is necessary (25% or so), and the more important becomes a good strong, very sharp, long/narrow high MA 2-blade broadhead, like Grizzly, STOS, ABS, or Tusker for some prime examples. Also, you might look into buying heavier limbs for your BW riser, if it’s a take-down. Thanks for caring and asking and best luck. dave
in reply to: Time to increase EFOC #33508Chris — I suggest easing into it by upping the weight of your heads (experiement with target points). If you’re using alum inserts, go to brass. You can easily double your FoC that way. My experience is that carbons are very forgiving in the spine dept. and the more weight I add up front, the better my accuracy with minimal trajectory change compapred to increasing overall shaft weight. In fac the easiest way to get EFoC is to start with a light shaft and add all the weight up front you can shoot well with. Dr. Ashby’s testing shows that 650 grains overall weight is minimal for assured slam-dunk penetration of heavy bones on heavy big game (assuming a high MA broadhead), and my own small experiments show that you want as much as that weight as possible right up front. Congrats on giving it a try! dave
Greatree — Yep, I get it too, in the form of “Do you want to allow only the stuff we think is OK,” or somesuch. Also, Robin, I’ve noticed that where before the sign-in would remember my name and password, it no longer does so that I have to type it all out … using energy i could be using to type annoying posts! dave 😛
in reply to: Mail order source for tungsten wire? #33192MIKE — I located a local supply of tungston welding rod — $4.18 per 7″ stick of pure tungsten 1/8″. Considering its weight and cost of shipping, plus your hassle in getting it, your source would have to be a lot cheaper before I’d trouble you with it. My plan is to use a minimum of Scotch tape to attach rods of various lengths to the front of the arrow approximating their location if inserted, then measure the various FoC’s to determine what length rod I’ll need to get where I want to be. The minimal weight of a 1/8″ drill hole in the wood shouldn’t throw things off too much.
Any informed advice on any of this would be greatly appreciated. So far as I know. dave
in reply to: Mail order source for tungsten wire? #33133Thanks Mike and T. Mike. I remember that elk kill was a slam-dunk, T! Mike, the 3Rivers gig calls for 1/8″ rod. Here’s the link if anyone is curious: http://www.3riversarchery.com/Arrow+Building+Tools+Misc+Internal+Point+Weight+and+Footing+Jig_c52_s8_p71_i5603X_product.html
I think I’ve seen other jigs for different sized wire but I’ll probably go with this one. I would order several tungsten rods at once to limit your hassle. Thanks! dave 😀
in reply to: Shoulder Shots 2 #32421Doc — such a rare opportunity to “argue” with my teacher! Certainly, your testing has proven that a lighter bow with a heavier, EFoC arrow, penetrates and kills far better than a heavier bow with light, low FoC arrows (broadhead choice notwithstanding). No argument! I’ve proven this to myself by shooting completely through elk with mid-50s longbows and heavy arrows, when I consistently failed to do that with mid-60s recurves and mid-weight (550) arrows. Even so, this is an apples vs oranges discussion. For a state wildlife dept. to declare to the uneducated bowhunting public that 35 pounds is enough for elk, moose and bear, remains a travesty of fact and ethics! Eh, no? dave
in reply to: Shoulder Shots 2 #32227King David — Man, are you right about the CO draw weight limit of 35 pounds for big game being an embarrassment and abomination! Not to mention a huge insult to the animals we hunt. That is on my list of gripes I present to the wildlife commission at every op, always to be dismissed by the big state bowhunting group, who if nothing else have lobbying the commission and DOW down pat. We can thank CBA for the 35 pound rule. Why, because they wanted their kids and wives to be able to hunt big game even when they’re too weak to pull a decent poundage on a high let-off compound. This group also helped block a very near miss by Doc and me in getting mechanical broadheads outlawed in this state. But we’ll be back! Now, back to Ed’s discussions with us of shoulder shots … don’t want to hijack this excellent thread but just had to get that out. 35 pounds for elk! Lord help the idiots. dave
in reply to: Shoulder Shots 2 #32116OK, amigos, I’m forced to play moderator here and try to “moderate” this thread in order to keep it on a positive trail. I understand Ed’s frustration with uninformed and openly biased criticism of his careful work and his need to defend himself here. After all, this is the Ashby forum! But let’s please forget about other sites and keep the focus of discussion on the technical info Ed is discussing here — as Michael has done for example. I’ve had to delete a bunch of posts toward that end and trust you understand. For the record I know what you’re speaking of from aggravating personal experience! Re-read my intro comments laying out the ground rules for this forum and you’ll get hints of that. But what is elsewhere should stay elsewhere, and we here don’t need to go there, as we absolutely don’t feel in competition with another site or want any “us vs. them” animosity. (You can of course PM as you wish, as PMs here are in fact private.) So I beg your understanding for deleting posts that are basically innocent and unoffensive. We are determined to avoid that potential minefield and keep this site focused on a positive learning and sharing experience, and by golly I believe our track record, your track record, so far does just that. Thanks for your help and understanding. You guys/gals are the greatest. I’ll conclude by pointing out that one of my test shots on a dead 5×5 bull elk this year was an intentional 45-degrees into the scapula. The “Ashby arrow set-up” blew a big hole in the blade and achieved 17″ penetration! But King’s photos and others here speak louder than words! Steady on …Dave
in reply to: Where is Steve Sr. #31295Hey, Doc Ed and Steve Sr. back from the dark side in the same week! :D:D:D This site is “tighter” than most, insofar as there are fewer of us, so we get to know one another better and miss and worry about any beloved regular who drops out. Now, were I to disappear, well, as my wife puts it: “He’s the kind of guy who brightens every room he walks out of.” But she’s never had a sense of humor :shock::roll::P:lol:
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