[Holten101]

in reply to: Holmegaard #25412

Hi Dave
Yes, all my Elm bows are still shooting (to my knowledge;-). But mind you I use Wych Elm (Ulmus glabra)…not Red Elm (Ulmus americana) or slippery (Ulmus rubra).

The original paleolithic flatbows from denmark were mostly made of Wych Elm (some of the wood identifications are somewhat doubious).

You basically cant mess up a bow made from Wych Elm….they allmost never break, even when rings are violated, and they take compression better than any white woods I have tried (or head of). Wych elms biggest drawback is a lack of elasticity (and maybe high hysterysis?) compared to Yew and Osage…and I suspect that the the lever tip design might compensate a bit for this drawback.

I have seen many excellent holmegård type bows made from Osage, and page 103 in tbb 4 display a record breaking osage broad head flight bow of this type (62″, 50#@28 and 172-178 fps with a 500 grain arrow).

If I had acces to osage then all my bows would be osage . You have more elasticity with means increased design freedom, …you can go slimmer and shorter before the bow takes set and/or stacks with any design compared to white woods. I bet my ancestors would feel the same had they had acces to osage;-)

Unfortunatly I only have acces to the “second” best wood…Wych Elm;-). Considder yourself lucky Dave:-)

Cheers

[Holten101]

in reply to: Persimmon long bows #53266

Nice Pappy….glad you find it as rewarding as me:-)

Now you can take the following advice…or ignore it as you please;-).

Ash is strong in tension but relativly weak in compression. Hickory and Bamboo are both exstremly strong in tension. Backing a compression weak wood with a tension strong will cause the belly of the bow to be over powered by the much stronger back.

The whole point of making composits are that you can mix different wood types to compliment each other…just like you did with the bow you posted…backed a compression strong wood (Persimmon) with a tension strong wood (bamboo)…hence the good result:-).

Ash will make very good selfbows (no backing)…but if you go for the same stats as the one above, then hickory, yew or Osage will be better choices…alternativly make it longer and wider.

But…one of the most satisfying things about making bows, is to experiment and learning by doing…what im saying is: Dont let me stop you….you might discover something wonderfull;-)

Cheers

[Holten101]

in reply to: Persimmon long bows #52771

As Duncan says…if has survived so far then there will most likely be no problem:-).

But…having a draw lenght half the length of the bow is normally considered the maximum for natural materials…this goes for bending handle, straight stave longbows. Yours is stiff handle and high poundage too…and brace height looks like it is in the high end too.

When the string angle reach 90 degrees relative to the tip then most wooden bows stack. Most bows will take set before this point…especially if they are not very wide (>2″ at fades).

Everything tells me this bow is strained to the limit (that is when wood frets/chrysals)….but natural materials are wonderfull in that they sometimes act out of the norm…that is when you have made something special:-)

Cheers

Ps: By natural materials I mean wood in this case…using sinew and horn will bend these “rules”.

PPs: Damn me…I forgot the most important part….what an exceptionel first try….its a stunning bow and brace looks awsome:-).

I read up on Persimmon as bow wood and it is highly regarded, especially when backed with boo or Hickory….considder yourself lucky to have access to Persimmon:-)

[Holten101]

in reply to: Persimmon long bows #52297

Cant see the picture either.

If the stats are correct then you have pushed the materials to the limit….does it stack beyond 27″

Cheers

[Holten101]

in reply to: short longbow recommendation #43940

I would love a Shrew too…but Im not sure they are that much better (very subjective I know) than other short longbows.

I have a Quick Stick (60″, 55#@28) (Kustom King has it) and it is fast and smooth. Only “draw back” is that it kind of has the same “chwak” sound as a compound….but my silencers are home made and small’ish. Anyways…it impress everyone who have tried it so far.

I think that the Bama bows that are discussed in another thread looks real nice too…they have more of a “custom” look about them than my Quick Stick.

I have never seen anyone say anything bad about Shrew bows (quite the contrary)…but I suspect that they might be a tad hyped (admitted…I have never tried one).

Cheers

[Holten101]

in reply to: yew or osage #30723

Boogie…the internet is your friend;-):

“The Osage-orange is commonly used as a tree row windbreak in prairie states, which gives it one of its colloquial names, “hedge apple”.”

From Wiki ofcause.

And im not the least bit envious that you are surrounded by the stuff:evil:

Cheers

[Holten101]

in reply to: Tips fpr a Beginning Bowyer #23191

As much as I love this forum and the people frequenting it;-)…it is not the “best” when it comes to bow making (it is THE site for arrow penetration and lethality no doubt and practical bow hunting in general).

If you want to endulge in self-bowyery then visit:
http://paleoplanet69529.yuku.com/forums/18/t/Archery-Primitive-Bows.html
and/or
http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/board,2.0.html

If you are into glass bows then http://tradgang.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=forum;f=125 is the site

But please dont forget to come back here and show us your bows;-)

Cheers

[Holten101]

in reply to: yew or osage #19622

Actually Rayborbon has a good point about TBB (The Bowyer Bible)! Im biased towards the series because my approach to bow making is somewhat academic.

TBB makes more sense when you have made your first handfull of bows…thats when TBB can bring your to the next level.

Get some wood (my point about starting out with a cheap board bow still stands imo) and start scraping;-)

This site might prove helpfull: http://georgeandjoni.home.comcast.net/~georgeandjoni/

Cheers

[Holten101]

in reply to: yew or osage #18548

Get Bowyer´s Bible vol. 1…that is a must have when you start out! Volume 4 which explains the mass principle would be a close second…both will save you time and headaches;-) (get the whole series when you are at it;-)

You mention Yew and Osage…both considdered some of the best selfbow woods out there…but less will do, at a fraction of the cost. If bow making is new territory for you then save the precious Osage and Yew staves, and make a few bows from Hicory or Maple first (ALOT of other wood species can and will make excelent bows).

Cheers

[Holten101]

in reply to: Elm Møllegabet bow #9714

The difference between a Holmegård and a Møllegabet is a much discussed subject. Both artefacts are from denmark; the Holmegård bow (6500-7000 B.C) is a complete bow and the Møllegabet bow (5250-5070 B.C) consists of a mid/outer limb section.

The holmegård is (in my oppinion) a pretty straight forward pyramid bow:

The shoulder (ONLY one limb has what might be inferrede to be a shoulder) is so insignificant that I would hesitate to call it a defining design characteristic…it did not have true, stiff levers. The shoulder on one limb could have been made for a number of reasons. I have no doubt that this was a pyramid bow…maybe tillered to have slightly stiff outer limbs (reconstructions indicates this)

The Møllegabet is a true lever tipped bow:

Admitted…it could have been asymetrical, but there is little doubt that the preserved outer limb was none-workning.

Normally the name “Holmgård” is used about lever tipped bows…I belive that is incorrect;-)

Cheers

[Holten101]

in reply to: My latest project (Elm #61324

Hehe…the hinge (I admit its minor) dosnt effect the bows performance it seems (no measurable set).

I took it to the range last night and its fast..my fastest selfbow yet. Im still worried the tips are too thin for long term durability…but thats my nature;-).

I dont have acces to a chronograph so I dont know exactly how fast it is. It has plenty punch using my hunting weight arrows (650 grs). I might have to make me some flight arrows and try it out for distance.

I have several staves of elm, plum and yew, designated for this particular design in the works. Ill post when I have new bows ready or if I have more info on bows which I have previously posted here.

Cheers

[Holten101]

in reply to: Selfmade bow quivers? #46432

Ok, had huge succes with my first bow quiver, so I decided to make a new one with slight modifications for my new bow. First off all I felt the need for 4 arrows and more wood to please the eyes;-)

Here it is:

Its a mix of walnut, elm heart wood and leather. All joints are glued and strenghtend with elm dowels.

Cheers

[Holten101]

in reply to: Thinking of making a new Bow Need Ideas #37997

Ok, here is what I was thinking (for what its worth;-).

If I had both wood available I would make a 66-68″ Møllegabet bow of the Hickory stave (these have pronounce thin, stiff outer limbs and wide inner limbs and stiff handle).
Yew is wonderfull for all designs (imo), but makes especially beautifull recurve/reflex bows, so a bend though the handle design with slightly recurved tips. You can make this shorter…60-64″. The width of the bow will be dictated by the quality of the yew available.

Have fun what ever you choose;-)

Cheers

[Holten101]

in reply to: Which is faster a Long bow or a Recurve bow? #36969

ToddRvs wrote: Given the same draw weight, same draw length, same arrow weight, which bow would shoot a faster arrow. I ask this question because I am building a new bow and I am deciding between a recurve and long bow.

My last long bow was 66 inches long and when it was strung had a length of 63 inches, Brace height was 6 1/4 inches rated at 41.6 pounds at 28 inches ( I actually draw 29 1/2 inches so at my actual draw length the bow was drawing 47 pounds) I was using a 467 grain arrow and through a chronograph set 10 feet in front of the bow I recorded a very respectable arrow speed of 181 FPS.

Can I expect the same or better from a recurve with the same draw and draw weight.

That is a very complex question. I see no reason why equally prestressed bows (i.e a longbow with as much reflex as the compared recurve) should not be equally fast. Some recurves are actually slower because the recurve mechanics dictates increased width/mass at outer limb.

ToddRvs wrote: Also does backing a bow actually increase it’s speed or just it’s strength.

Its more a question of mass and amount of stored energy. Reflex = more stored energy, but highly stressed back, which usually means backing!

Low mass, lots of reflex and high draw weight = high speed (tweaking all three will increase or decrease the stress of the materials).

Cheers

[Holten101]

in reply to: Where do you get your tradional supplies from #36641

I would love to say the woods…but that would be sidetracking the truth;-).

I live in Europe so order from 3 Rivers and Bogensport-Bodnik.

Cheers

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