tombowJuly 12, 2012 at 6:30 pmPost count: 103
Decided not to hijack the “Wood and FOC” thread, but I have another few questions about Wood and high FOC. I am just starting to delve deep into this and wanted to get some information for my personal “database”. First, would anyone be willing to provide gpi’s for various shaft woods, including relative spines for those weights? EXAMPLE: my POC shafts at 60-65 gr. weigh 13.125 grains. I need information on spruce, Doug.Fir, etc. so I can use these numbers when running calculations for potential arrows to build. I have been searching the internet but can’t seem to find this info.
Woody Weights for increasing weight-forward: have you used them, would you suggest just using a heavy head instead?
I would like to produced some wood shafts with high FOC, 19 or better (thanks Dr. Ashby) and want to get an idea what I’ll be looking at for grain weight.
I shoot a 53#@28 longbow and draw just a titch over 28. My current POC’s are just over 10g/# and weigh 545-552 (3fletch and 4 fletch) for a FOC of about 10%. They fly well but the EFOC numbers from Ashby have me considering a heavier arrow for hunting deer and turkeys. Granted, the Ashby info is based on BIG, Heavy boned game but I want to see my arrow pass through any unlucky deer that gives me an opportunity at harvest. It’s obvious from the numbers that High FOC and heavier arrow weights push the odds in my favor. Not trying to flog a dead horse but need to wrap my head around this so I can understand. Hey, If I don’t ask the experience individuals, how can I gain from their knowledge?
Thanks again, in advance.
skifrkJuly 12, 2012 at 10:11 pmPost count: 387
Tom you may want to get in touch with a shaft producer such Rick from the The Feathered hast, they can help with the FOC idea, and give you some base numbers. I did some research and went with for my long draw of 30.5″ and 48# draw weight, a type of wood called Western Larch in 70-75 spine for the arrow. I got them from Kootenai Archery in Idaho, I told him upfront I was going with a 200gr broadhead or maybe heavier later and that is what he recommended for me. Once I get tuned and built for shooting I will give a review and my FOC number then.
David PetersenMemberJuly 12, 2012 at 11:01 pmPost count: 2749
Tom, I second you talking to Rick Stillman, aka Fletcher, at The Feathered Shaft in IL: http://www.thefeatheredshaft.com. I just received a dozen Sitka spruce arrows from him set up for 300-grain heads, which I’ll be playing with in the coming days and reporting on here (53# longbow drawn to 28″ needs 85# spine shafts). They should deliver 20% FOC or higher, depending on how you measure it (with or without the head, which we also need to discuss here). The problem is finding wood shafts that are stiff enough to handle the big heads, but don’t weigh-in like torpedoes.
So far as Woody Weights, I don’t wish to say “they’re no good,” but feel obligated to report that in my testing they did tend to break loose from the steel point, broadhead or field head, when shot into trees(poor man’s attempt to replicate a heavy bone hit) at an angle. So I don’t use them for hunting. However, I’m overdue to try ’em again as I’m far more careful about cleaning and scoring steel-to-steel glue-ups nowadays.
And you came close to providing the most succinct explanation of why “If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it” is a false lead for trad bowhunters. Few would disagree that the perfect shot, aside from placement, is a full pass-through. I say, if your current set-up doesn’t consistently produce full pass-throughs on the game you hunt, it’s broke and in need of fixing. I long ago had a problem with lame penetration even when shooting much heavier bows. Following the Ashby advice has fully fixed the problem, and I hunt mostly elk. So don’t be turned-around by the nay-sayers. You’re on the right track. And much as I prefer to shoot woodies, if I feel I have to use carbons to get the overall weight and FOC I need to feel confident of rifle-fast kills, well that comes first as I personally feel I owe it to the beautiful wild animals I hunt. 😀
Bruce SmithhammerJuly 13, 2012 at 11:30 pmPost count: 2514
TomBow wrote: …They fly well but the EFOC numbers from Ashby have me considering a heavier arrow for hunting deer and turkeys. Granted, the Ashby info is based on BIG, Heavy boned game ….
You’re on the right track, Tom, and getting excellent advice.
But I can’t resist the need to dispel the, “Ashby findings only apply to big game” myth every chance I get, since it’s such a common misconception (addressed at 2:30):
gigglemonkJuly 14, 2012 at 11:37 pmPost count: 146
I just put together a few cedar arrows with woody weights and a Zwickey No Mercy attached to that. I have a 53# longbow I made and a 29.5 inch draw. On the 60# spine Im getting good flight out to about 15 yards, which is my effective range.
I used ferr l tite and havent had anything come apart but Im going to buy some 225 tuffheads. My feeling is that with the weights there is just one more link in the chain that can fail.
Im new to the HFOC idea as well so my experience so far is VERY AMATEUR.
tombowJuly 15, 2012 at 2:17 pmPost count: 103
Loud and clear Gig, about the “one more link in the chain that can fail. Exactly my thinking. Just was given some 125 gr. grizzly single bevels, and they are a good looking, ie: penetration specific head so I too am looking to get some 200 gr. heads, I’m seriously considering 200 gr Grizzly’s. The woody weight idea just makes me think, hmm, not just one more potentially weak bond between the weight and the head but what about getting it on straight, probably not a big deal BUT I AM gettin-stuff-on-straight-challenged. Yup, I got the GSSC issue so why not simplify by going straight to a heavy head, only 1 thing to get on straight. If I do the 200’s, it looks like I’ll end up with the FOC at mid-teens and a total grain weight of upper 600’s. Which to me is a happy medium. I mounted one 125 grizzly on a POC arrow I recently built, my first woods ever, and it flew well. If I do my part, it should do it’s part, but danged if I don’t just need to TRY something with a little more FOC and weight. Part of the fun, I reckon.
Thanks for the info.
FletcherJuly 22, 2012 at 1:51 amPost count: 177
HIgh FOC with wood arrows is a challenge and definitely has its limits, but getting 20% is pretty doable. You’ll need the lightest shaft possible and a heavy point. I like Sitka Spruce shafting for this. Sitka has the highest strength to weight ratio of all wood and is a very good arrow wood. Tapering also helps as it removes about 10 grains of weight from the tail of the arrow with a minimal change in spine. The further you move the balance forward, the less effect additional point weight makes and the greater the effect of less tail weight. The 200 gr Grizzly/Kodiak is a great broadhead. Learn to get it sharp and it will serve you well and get you into the upper teens FOC with a light shaft.
The secret to point alignment is straight shafts and true and accurate tapers.
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