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    • skifrk
      Post count: 387

      I was looking through all the threads and FOC and I have seen a few where they talk about using wood arrows and not getting above 20% FOC but I seem to recall one where I think Mr. David Peterson was aiming to get higher than 20% with wood but I can’t find it. So I was wondering if you did manage to get that result David and if so what did you end up using for a shaft and head combo?

    • David Petersen
      Member
      Post count: 2749

      Kirk — Yes, you are right. The shaft is 29.5″ Sitka spruce, with 4×2″ fletching and a 300grn Tuffhead glue-on. Best I recall it came in about 21.5% FOC. I don’t think it can get much higher due to spine restrictions. I’m shooting a 53# longbow and the shafts are 85# spine. I believe I can shoot through elk just fine with that setup and plan to try and prove it this Sept. But a heavier bow would push the spine requirements beyond the limits of all but the heaviest wood species, and you also want the lightest wood you can find, so that’s the pinch. My personal bottom line is that yes, if you try hard enough you can get just barely into the EFOC category with woods, but for serious EFOC and UEFOC carbon is the only way to go. I shoot both, depending on mood. Also remember that 650 grains “minimum heavy bone threshhold” has priority over FOC. Get that and a good two-blade head and a bow with respectable poundage and speed and you’ll do fine. Years ago when I first started down the Ashby road of personal experimentation, I shot completely through a bull and the next year a cow, using the exact same arrow both times: 740+ grains of hickory with a wimpy 125 double-bevel Wolverine head. The next year I hit a bull in the shoulder with the same set-up and the head broke in half about halfway from the point and bounced out of the elk. Of course the Wolverine at that time was a single leaf of steel all the way to the tip and should never have been on the market for dummies like me to try and use on elk. That’s another advantage of the current generation of heavier single-bevel heads: they are thick and the steel is hard and they’re darn near industructable. Sorry to get long-winded …

    • skifrk
      Post count: 387

      I am thinking of trying the wood arrows with an older model byron ferguson made bow pulling 71# at 30″ so it may take awhile to find the right wood arrow combo for that. However will focus more on the heavier than 650gr arrow though.

    • gigglemonk
      Post count: 146

      This is a great discussion. Im making some woodies, ash footed with ipe for my 54# bamboo backed ipe bow I made recently. Im getting around 550 grains before fletching and BH. Im looking at the Grizzly 160 or 170 grains whenever they become available again. Im in Southern CA now, used to be in Moab UT and hunted the La Sals, damn I miss that place! At least the bug got me again!

    • Troy Breeding
      Post count: 994

      Been mulling this higher FOC and wood delima over and over. My thoughts would a combination of tapered shaft with footing. Use as light a shaft material as possible and as heavy a footing material as posible.

      Increase point weight as much as possible and hope for the best results as possible.

      I havn’t shot woods in years, but all this talk has me wondering just how far one coud take it.

      Troy

    • W David McLendonW David McLendon
      Member
      Post count: 56

      I have aquired a pretty good stash of gaboon ebony 1″X 1″X 20″and I plan on some sitka spruce shafts with four finger 10″ footing with the ebony topped with a Tuffhead.

    • Ben M.
      Post count: 460

      Mr. McLendon,

      I am wondering about these ebony footed arrows. Have you completed them? They must be beautiful and I’d sure like to see a picture of them. What has the final FOC turned out to be?

    • Troy Breeding
      Post count: 994

      Nothing prettier than a Ebony footed shaft.

      Troy

    • David Petersen
      Member
      Post count: 2749

      Troy — I’ve tried footed shafts for FOC, a few years ago, and was disappointed in that they added more weight to the shaft than FOC, since the footing’s weight is spread through several inches. I’m having better luck with lighter wood solid shafts, single-tapered of course, and the heaviest head I can find. But maybe it can be done …

    • Troy Breeding
      Post count: 994

      Thought about the remark I made after posting. Just failed to go back and correct it. Heck, I’ve increased the FOC on enough shafts to know that the footing wouldn’t do what I first said. Too much weight behind the point to really do anything.

      Troy

    • Fletcher
      Post count: 177

      I measured a wood arrow today at 23.7% FOC, AMO. When it gets a 300 gr Tuffhead mounted it will be just a bit higher due to the longer point length. It is a 23/64 Sitka Spruce tail tapered shaft, 29.5″ BOP, 85 lb spine and a 300 gr brass field point, 4 fletched with 3″ parabolics. Total arrow weight is 715 gr. That is the best I have done so far with wood, but it would be higher with a shorter shaft. 715 gr is more arrow weight than I want to shoot, tho.

      One thing I have found is that the higher the FOC, the smaller effect an increase in point weight gives whereas reducing nock end weight has a greater effect. It has to do with the length of the moment arm.

      I’m still trying to figure out why we measure FOC without including the point in the length measurement.

    • Raymond CoffmanRaymond Coffman
      Moderator
      Post count: 1035

      Fletcher –

      I agree on point length — probably late in the equation do to lack of long BHs {tuffheads -etc} being semi common till now — when I was first working up my Foc arrows – I was worried about the difference between the FPs & BH length, at the time in my case [ carbon] it worked out OK

      What was the length of your arrows that made 23.7%? 715gr is ok with me as I shoot 730+ as std [ carbon}

      Scout

    • Fletcher
      Post count: 177

      It is 29.5″ BOP. I have edited my post above. Length definitely makes a difference when figuring FOC.

    • Ben M.
      Post count: 460

      I’m still trying to figure out why we measure FOC without including the point in the length measurement.

      I concur.

      Whenever the center of gravity of an object is measured the entire mass and volume of said object is taken into consideration. So why not in this situation? I just don’t get it.

      -BGM

    • Raymond CoffmanRaymond Coffman
      Moderator
      Post count: 1035

      Fletcher what Bow have you made those arrows for? draw weight?

      I have a pair of shrews {54″ 56lb @ 27″] with fireflys[ 68/70 spine, 29.5, poc 225 tuffheads ]that shoot well, but was wondering what wood /spine might work for 300gr TH out of those bows?

      Scout

    • David Petersen
      Member
      Post count: 2749

      Scout– Those are my (forthcoming) arrows Fletcher is talking about. I have always included point length in FOC calculations and would love to hear Ed Ashby chime in here on the topic. Maybe for this forum we can all agree on FOC including point length? While I would rather have a total weight down closer to 650, even for elk, these 715s are lighter than most carbon arrows set-ups I’ve used with FOC beyond 20 percent. They will do nicely for elk, which is the plan, but I prefer lighter arrows for deer, etc., but still no less than 650. I’ve been shooting heavy, high-FOC arrows for so long that I don’t even notice any increased trajectory. Anyhow, that’s my elk arrows for this year–what Fletcher describes with a 300 Tuffhead.

    • Raymond CoffmanRaymond Coffman
      Moderator
      Post count: 1035

      David –

      This is timely as I remember you said something in earlier posts about having this set of arrows built. I was thinking about doing something similiar, like to have fletcher build me some with the 300 TH in mind for my Shrews.

      currently shooting Fireflys [ Laclair]with 225gr TH — come out — 654+-gr and 18.42% shaft length to back of head. I was going off the instructions in the FoC Chart in the Ashby Library- although as you and Fletcher { Prairie Prwlr} have mentioned length of BH thrown in makes sense to me?! I think this arrow would be fine for deer – but was trying to get a little more of everything for ELK —

      Scout

    • Fletcher
      Post count: 177

      300 grains is a long way off the regular “formulas” and IMO the only way to figure what spine is going to be needed is to shoot a set of test arrows and see what spine works. As long as Dave has opened the door that these are his arrows I will say that when he did the test arrows, he ended up needing less spine than I thought he would – a good thing as anything over 80 lb in a sitka is pretty hard to come across. I think the point weight to spine increase ratio may flatten out some as point weight becomes heavier. Scout, your bow, draw weight and arrow length are very close to Dave’s and you might be very close on spine needs for the 300 gr TH as well.

      I’m looking forward to Dave’s report on how these arrows shoot for him and his bows.

    • Raymond CoffmanRaymond Coffman
      Moderator
      Post count: 1035

      Fletcher –

      Thanks for the info, and I understand the predicament.

      To order some test arrows should I PM you, or just contact you thru your website ?

      Scout.

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