Home Forums Friends of FOC Tuning struggles

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    • jpcarlson
      Member
      Post count: 218

      Ok Guys,

      This tuning thing isn’t easy I got my shafts, insert, adaptor, and tips all put together and started shooting one shaft. I’m shooting an Easton Axix Nano 340. About 9.3 grs/inch shaft. I have a 300gr brass field point, 125gr steel insert, and 75gr brass hidden insert adaptor up front. total, 500grs.

      I started at full length,32″,and was hitting right of a center line. I made a 1/2″ cut, shot again, same thing. another 1/2″ cut, same thing. made a 1/4″ cut, still right but starting to come over. I would say I’m about 1-1/2″ right on average but still getting left tail kick on the impact. I can even see the shaft kick left in flight sometimes.

      I know I need to slow down the cutting and start being careful to not make the shaft too stiff. So, now the questions!

      Where should my nock point be? Should my arrow be level on the shelf/perpendicular with the string? I notice some tail kick up once in awhile, maybe due to the nock sliping? Also, I am still getting tail kick left/ right impact of a center line. does that indicate weak spine still?

      the shaft is shooting pretty good at 10 yards, but I notice the impact problems as I move back. You guys make it sound easy so I keep reading over your tuning methods but come up with questions while doing it! I really want to get these shooting well and not ruin my shaft while learning. expensive little buggers, but really strong shafts with good straightness.

      The thing that throws a wrench in it for me is my old bear take down recurve has an adjustable side plate on the riser to move the center shot in our out. I understand I will need a stiffer shaft the closer to center shot I am, and weaker the further away from center shot I am. where should I set the darn thing? I’m not sure how to use that variable in this equasion! Maybe i’m not understanding this right, but it seems I could stay at the length I have on my test shaft and just start playing with adjusting my side plate, moving in or out from center. I tried that a bit, but I still get that left tail kick. I think that means my shaft is still too weak.

      Is there an affordable way to build a nice big target in the back yard for this? If I could find the closed cell foam, I could stack layers and build a frame to compress it in

      When shooting, I’m not a very reliable shot out past 20-25 yrds. Can I still tune these shafts to shoot well out there and beyond by doing all of my tuning between 10-20 yrds?

      Can anyone recommend a good bow mount quiver which will hold these small diameter shafts tightly? I like the Selway quivers, but I’m not sure if they will hold the small shafts.

      I do notice the nice heavy FOC arrow makes my already quiet bow even better.

      Anything will help so I am all ears!

      Any advice will be greatly appreciated!

      Scratching my head,

      Jans

    • Stephen Graf
      Moderator
      Post count: 2374

      It sounds to me like you are on the right track. If the tail is till kicking left, the shaft is still weak. As you surmised, you can move the plunger out to match a weak shaft and get it shooting straight, but you can only go out so far before the arrow falls off the shelf…

      Keep cutting, the arrow will eventually straighten out.

      No advice for you on the quiver gripper.

    • Troy Breeding
      Post count: 994

      Tail high can sometimes be harder to correct than left/right. One thing to remember is tail high adjustment to correction can sometimes be a little as 1/16″ adjustment. Normally I start out with the nocking point on the string 1/4″ above level. Then start adjusting as needed.

      Alot of times my left/right would be great, but the tail high/low would be off. Just for giggles and fits I’d start playing around with my release. Alittle more pressure on one finger over the other. Then maybe more pressure on a different finger. It’s really amazing what different pressure on different fingers can do for flight.

      Along these lines another thing to remember that too much pressure on the third finger can really make the monkey jump back in play.

      In my case, if I have my tail left/right correct and still have high/low problems I start adjusting finger pressure before making another cut. Reverting back to a used-to grip is easier than trying to stretch a too short shaft.

      If adjusting finger pressure corrects the problem it want take long to adjust to that finger pressure as long as you think about it with every practice shot. Later it will become natural.

      Troy

    • Ed Ashby
      Member
      Post count: 816

      I would start with your adjustable shelf out about as far as you can while still having a reasonable shelf for the arrow to rest on. That way if you cut the shaft a bit too short and it is too stiff you can just move the shelf in a tad to compensate.

      Do make those cuts in very small increments. Once the spine gets close a very small change in length makes a sizable change in stiffness.

      I find that I like to do the final tuning at longer ranges (I use 40 meters, about 44 yards). It just allows for more refinement of the tuning.

      Best inexpensive large target is probably still a few bales of hay, just doesn’t stand up to the weather all that well.

      Be sure to give us all feedback as you try the suggestions. It makes a good learning process for all.

      Ed

    • handirifle
      Post count: 409

      The most affordable fild point only, target I ever made was a big cardboard box packed tightly with plastic grocery bags, and taped shut.

      That target will stop any field point arrow from any bow. I make mine from the large moving boxes from Home Depot or similar. Takes a lot of bags, but the bags far outlast the boxes. When shot up switch the bags to a new box, tape it shut and shoot away.

      Some versions use burlap bags instead of boxes.

    • David Coulter
      Member
      Post count: 2271

      I’ll leave the tuning questions to those guys that have already answered, as they are the ones who answered a lot of my questions.

      For cheap targets, I’m using feed sacks from the local feed store. They’re about a buck a piece for the largest ones. I tried stuffing with plastic grocery bags, but they were so light that they pushed out through the back of the targets and made a mess. In PA we have billboards, so I went to the local billboard advertising agency and they gave me several used billboards. These are like light tarps material that would otherwise go to a landfill as they can’t be reprinted. I cut them into manageable strips and stiff them as tight as I can into the sacks. I roll the end of the sack over and sew it shut with small cable ties. I painted them with spray primer to help them blend in a little and hang them on tripods made of branches and saplings.

      The arrows stick nicely and usually pull out easily with fingers. I’ve had a couple of these out for over a year now and they are holding up nicely. I like the shape of them, too, as they are similar to a deer torso. The tripods allow you to move them around easily to change things up once in a while.

    • Troy Warner
      Post count: 239

      I just finished tuning my arrows, and after making one permanate stumping/rock squerrel arrow, I preach pateince especially when you get to the point your arrow is bearly off to the left, start cutting 1/8″ or less. I really recommend less. 1/8″ to much can make it to stiff. I prefer to leave my arrows just bearly to the weak side to compensate for a poor release and loss of grn weight due to sharpening broad heads.

      For the tail high move your nock point down if tial low move nock point up. If it is radically high or low you can move up to 1/4 inch at a time but as stated above when it is close a 1/16th of an inch can make a difference.

      The finger pressure idea is worth trying, but I have enough of a problem keeping equal pressure on the string and releasing completely clean without adding more for my simple mind to sort out.:?

      I hope I didn’t get any of that backwards.

      On targets if you know some one that heats with a wood pellet stove the bags the pellets come in work great for stuffing burlap bags, they are thick and heavy enough they don’t poke out the back side of the bag.

      Good luck

    • jpcarlson
      Member
      Member
      Post count: 218

      So the process goes on trying to get these arrows flying. I took advice and moved my adjustable arrow plate on the riser of the old bear bow out as far as I could while still allowing enough space for the arrow to rest on the shelf. well, i found the arrow I had been tuning was then to stiff for that much past center so I started backing it in. I found a spot about in the middle where I am still tail left, right impact indicating week spine.

      My question is this;

      If I am under standing this right, I am actually also tuning the shaft as i tune the adjustable side plate in and out, changing my distance from center shot on the riser, right? Can I find the sweet spot with the shaft I have been tuning (so I don’t have to throw away a good carbon shaft)where I am still slightly week,and make small trim cuts from there?

      I guess I am reluctant to move the plate all the way out as I can move it out 3/4 of an inch or more and my arrow is pointing off into left feild something fierce!

      Also, the shorter my tuned shaft ends up being, the more FOC I will have due to more weight up front and less weight in the back, right?

      Thanks for any help guys!

      Jans

    • tombow
      Post count: 103

      Maybe not in exact question order, but here’s my take/understanding. Think about the paradox (flexing) of the arrow when released. As you release, the nock end of the arrow will be carried (if you are right handed) to the left as the string path will be around your fingers, first left, then to the right, then the string and arrow shaft will begin to reduce their oscillations as the arrow travels forward. If the arrow is too weak, it will bend too much, might slap into the bow a bit or overcompensate for the oscillations, and a stiff arrow may not bend enough and won’t clear the bow well either as it Undercompensates. IF, by moving your arrow plate you have found a place where it is too far away from center, the arrow shows stiff, then have found a place where the arrow shows weak with a different arrow plate location, there has to be a point where the arrow plate is in the right place for your arrow spine.

      Have you tried different point weights while tuning as another option to changing dynamic spine of your shafts?

      This is probably the easiest way, with screw in points to tune an arrow to a bow without changing effective center shot (moving the arrow plate). You could also try making adjusments to your brace height. Just yesterday I made a change to brace height (higher) and noticed a large improvement in my accuracy. Arrows had been showing a bit stiff and the higher brace height helps to weaken them a bit.

      Yes, you have it right: shorter shaft will have higher FOC with the same point weight.

      Best of luck tuning, it can be a grizzly but keep at it and you will get it figured out. Shoot straight.

    • Troy Warner
      Post count: 239

      jpcarlson wrote: So the process goes on trying to get these arrows flying. I took advice and moved my adjustable arrow plate on the riser of the old bear bow out as far as I could while still allowing enough space for the arrow to rest on the shelf. well, i found the arrow I had been tuning was then to stiff for that much past center so I started backing it in. I found a spot about in the middle where I am still tail left, right impact indicating week spine.

      My question is this;

      If I am under standing this right, I am actually also tuning the shaft as i tune the adjustable side plate in and out, changing my distance from center shot on the riser, right? Can I find the sweet spot with the shaft I have been tuning (so I don’t have to throw away a good carbon shaft)where I am still slightly week,and make small trim cuts from there?

      I guess I am reluctant to move the plate all the way out as I can move it out 3/4 of an inch or more and my arrow is pointing off into left feild something fierce!

      Also, the shorter my tuned shaft ends up being, the more FOC I will have due to more weight up front and less weight in the back, right?

      Thanks for any help guys!

      Jans

      If you decide to cut your arrows down since you are close to what you may need for spine I recommend that you not take off more than 1/32″ at a time to change your spine. It will seem a very slow process but patience in tuning will save good arrows from becoming rock chuck arrows.

      Good luck

      Troy

    • MSARCHER
      Member
      Post count: 93

      So am I understanding correctly that if you move the shelf out (right handed bow)it creates a stiffer spine?

    • Troy Breeding
      Post count: 994

      MS,

      It really doesn’t make the shaft stiffer it just causes more side plate for the arrow to past by. Thus making the shaft shoot as thugh it was stiffer.

      I’ve built my sight window out to the point it is approx. 3/16″ before center. Doing this allows me to shoot and arrow that was way too weak when I had the sight window at 3/16″ past center.

      Troy

    • archer38
      Post count: 242

      jpcarlson wrote: Ok Guys,

      This tuning thing isn’t easy I got my shafts, insert, adaptor, and tips all put together and started shooting one shaft. I’m shooting an Easton Axix Nano 340. About 9.3 grs/inch shaft. I have a 300gr brass field point, 125gr steel insert, and 75gr brass hidden insert adaptor up front. total, 500grs.

      I started at full length,32″,and was hitting right of a center line. I made a 1/2″ cut, shot again, same thing. another 1/2″ cut, same thing. made a 1/4″ cut, still right but starting to come over. I would say I’m about 1-1/2″ right on average but still getting left tail kick on the impact. I can even see the shaft kick left in flight sometimes.

      I know I need to slow down the cutting and start being careful to not make the shaft too stiff. So, now the questions!

      Where should my nock point be? Should my arrow be level on the shelf/perpendicular with the string? I notice some tail kick up once in awhile, maybe due to the nock sliping? Also, I am still getting tail kick left/ right impact of a center line. does that indicate weak spine still?

      the shaft is shooting pretty good at 10 yards, but I notice the impact problems as I move back. You guys make it sound easy so I keep reading over your tuning methods but come up with questions while doing it! I really want to get these shooting well and not ruin my shaft while learning. expensive little buggers, but really strong shafts with good straightness.

      The thing that throws a wrench in it for me is my old bear take down recurve has an adjustable side plate on the riser to move the center shot in our out. I understand I will need a stiffer shaft the closer to center shot I am, and weaker the further away from center shot I am. where should I set the darn thing? I’m not sure how to use that variable in this equasion! Maybe i’m not understanding this right, but it seems I could stay at the length I have on my test shaft and just start playing with adjusting my side plate, moving in or out from center. I tried that a bit, but I still get that left tail kick. I think that means my shaft is still too weak.

      Is there an affordable way to build a nice big target in the back yard for this? If I could find the closed cell foam, I could stack layers and build a frame to compress it in

      When shooting, I’m not a very reliable shot out past 20-25 yrds. Can I still tune these shafts to shoot well out there and beyond by doing all of my tuning between 10-20 yrds?

      Can anyone recommend a good bow mount quiver which will hold these small diameter shafts tightly? I like the Selway quivers, but I’m not sure if they will hold the small shafts.

      I do notice the nice heavy FOC arrow makes my already quiet bow even better.

      Anything will help so I am all ears!

      Any advice will be greatly appreciated!

      Scratching my head,

      Jans

      I saw a great back stop made from layers of old carpet compressed in a frame. The one caution,I was told, was to put some kind of a roof on it. Old carpet doesn’t like rain !

      As for tuning, I know your going for EFOC but have you considered reducing the point weight just slightly ? It should have a similar effect to cutting the shaft.

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