stalkin4elkSeptember 5, 2009 at 2:15 amPost count: 63
First, I want to thank Dr Ashby for sharing his research. I was inspired to read the Reports after too many failed expandable BH local stories on elk. Heck,I thought the Montec g5 wre super heads in my compound days. The new TBM article on expandable BH’s was similiar to many local reports.
So lets say everything is as equal as possible(tune,wt,efoc,bh,bow,draw, #’s,ets,etc) with the exception of shafts. Concerning strength and penetration are we better served by the skinny MFX and AXIS H.I.T style or the tapered A.D. Hammerheads and Alaska Safari style.
One consideration is that the skinny shafts are so small there is quit a ledge going forward to many bh’s and they sure snag in targets. This target problem is only an inconvenience.On hard impacts I’ve flared the ends of FMJ shafts when the H.I.T. insert broke the epoxy bond.
IronCreekArcherSeptember 5, 2009 at 4:30 pmPost count: 79
If you read the Ashby reports he says tapered shafts are the best selection with parallel second best. That being said a very small diameter parallel shaft such as the Axis would be the best in my opinion. I am shooting the Axis at 24.38% EFoC and the catch at the back of the heads is only a problem in the targets not on game. In fact with the arrow diameter so much smaller than the broadhead diameter it actually increases arrow penetration. Hitting the metal in the targets and hitting bone are very different. I have not “flowered” an arrow on any game but I have on metal. just bear that in mind. As far as expandables they are useless junk in my opinion and should be outlawed in this country. They have no place in the woods and I shutter to think how many game animals have suffered agonizing and protracted deaths because of there use. I think expandables are for the lazy ones who don’t want to take the time to tune their set-ups to shoot fixed blades well. That applies to anyone who shoots archery equipment regardless of make. A suggestion to stop the epoxy from breaking the bond, try lightly sanding inside of the shaft then cleaning throughly. Use multiple q-tips soaked in alcohol and swab the inside of the shaft until they start coming out clean and not black. I hope this helps. I know Dr. Ashby would love to comment on this thread but is very busy at the moment so I suspect that it will be awhile before he comments here.
stalkin4elkSeptember 5, 2009 at 6:24 pmPost count: 63
The mushrooms were caused by the fmj arrow bouncing off frozen ground and then hitting a pipe fence 10 yards distant so:lol: maybe not fair to judge. An elk’s shouler knuckle has broken alot of set-ups and I’m thinking about Doc’s findings that a completely intact arrow systen is paramount.
I need to re-read the tapered/parallel report but it possibly was written before the skinny shafts(H.I.T.) were widely popular?? ANY field repots are appreciated aspecially since I’m out for the season with an injury so I’m here to learn!
Todd SmithSeptember 6, 2009 at 12:22 pmPost count: 167
Full length tapered carbon arrows retain more energy because they recover from the paradox more quickly AND at impact they drive forward more aggressively because they recover from what I’ll call impact paradox as well. The guys at Alaska Bowhunting Supply are finally getting some ultra-slow motion footage to bear this all out.
I do like the idea of skinny shafts, but if the question is which one is actually the best, my money is on the full length tapered arrow.
David PetersenMemberSeptember 6, 2009 at 3:35 pmPost count: 2749
Stalkin4elk — I really like the tapered Grizzly shafts. On the other hand, due to overall lighter weight, you may find it’s easier to get EFoC with straight skinny shafts. I have no strong feelings either way and shoot both. However, whatever you use, just be sure your overall arrow weight meets Ashby’s study-determined minimim of 650 grains. With el cheapo Carbon Express 4560 shafts (thin but not skinny) cut to 29″, 100-grain brass inserts and 175-grain heads, I get a whopping 26%-plus FoC and total arrow weight of 680 grains. With Grizzly Alaskan shafts (which come with 75 grain inserts, which I don’t believe are heavy enough for these shafts, but I”m sure you could request the insert weight you want) and the same heads I get 730 grains total weight and low-20% FoC which is still “extreme.” With my 55# bow I prefer the lighter set-up, but if I were still shooting over 60# I’d probably go with the ABS because of their higher quality and strength. Try to find someone who already has both skinny and tapered shafts and experiment. I’d say both are at the top of efficiency possibilities so it comes down to what shoots best for you and personal pref. Sorry about you missing the season, darn. Dave
IronCreekArcherSeptember 10, 2009 at 12:10 amPost count: 79
We will be sure to post some success stories here for you. I to am sorry about you missing the season thats a bummer. I have heard that the ABS shafts are difficult if not impossible to tune; again I have heard not experienced. I have had great luck with the Axis arrows although my set-up falls 100 grains short of the 650 that Dr. Ashby recommends. I could bump it higher and have done so but its does not tune well. In reading the studies Dr. Ashby places a well tuned bow at the top of the list of requirements, so I opted for the little bit lighter arrow to retain perfect arrow flight. I am very excited to post my findings this fall after hopefully harvesting an animal. I am also interested in Dr. Ashbys findings on lighter weight hunting bows as I am only shooting 49 lbs.
If you are reading this Dr. Ashby, I wish you a speedy recovery, smooth transition to the U.S. and prayers for your upcoming battle.
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