Stephen GrafModeratorJanuary 7, 2013 at 2:36 pmPost count: 2361
I just got back from 2 weeks in Hawaii for the holidays. I managed to get in 2 1/2 days of DIY hunting without too much grumbling from the family.
On the 2nd day I shot a polynesian boar on the side of Mona Loa at about 7 thousand feet. The shot was broadside quartering away and the arrow stuck in the off side shoulder. The boar went about 10 yds. When I pulled the arrow out, the steel adapter inside the abowyer broadhead was bent badly. I am guessing that this failure kept the arrow from exiting.
This makes the 3rd steel adapter I’ve had bent in as many seasons. When I called 3Rivers to complain about the 1st one, they said they had some bad inserts and would send me another batch. Which was great.
Problem is, it keeps happening. I have never had an aluminum adapter bend. I am thinking that maybe the steel adapters are made from low carbon steel with a high lead content to facilitate machining.
Any body else have problems with steel broadhead adapters bending? If not, where do you get ’em?
Ed AshbyMemberJanuary 7, 2013 at 9:30 pmPost count: 816
I HAD BAD PROBLEMS WITH THE 75 GR. STEEL INSERTS FROM THREE RIVERS BREAKING. WITH 125 GR. STEEL ADAPTORS I’VE HAD FEW PROBLEMS (I USE ONES FROM CUSTOM KING) WHEN THEY WERE SECURED WITH LOCTITE INTO BRASS OR STEEL INSERTS.
IF NOT SECURED WITH LOCTITE INTO THE STEEL ADAPTORS CAN BACK OUT AND WILL THEN BEND EASLIY.
BEST OF ALL HAVE BEEN THE ONE-PIECE INSERT/BH ADAPTORS OF STEEL. HAVE NOT BENT ANY OF THEM.
Stephen GrafModeratorModeratorJanuary 8, 2013 at 1:59 pmPost count: 2361
This latest was a 125 grain adapter. It was tight into the threads.
I like the one piece idea, but it won’t work for me. I have to take the broadheads off the arrow for travel. Can’t fit something that long onto my luggage.
I guess I’ll have to figure out some kind of bending test to see what’s going on. I have a feeling that the aluminum inserts are going to be stronger than the steel inserts. If that turns out to be true, maybe I can put some lead in the end of the aluminum insert to get the 125 grains I need…
Vintage ArcherMemberJanuary 9, 2013 at 12:53 amPost count: 276
Steve I have customers report the something.I also had the same thing happen to me with a 100 grain adapter this deer season. I hit a deer high out of a tree stand and hit it right below the spine at the top of the ribs. the adapter bent at the thread area.
I agree with you that the steel in the adapters is designed for ease of machining rather than strength .I have been toying with the idea of Harding some
to see if they would resist bending.
Stephen GrafModeratorModeratorJanuary 9, 2013 at 12:36 pmPost count: 2361
Joe – I think you are onto something. It shouldn’t be too hard to get them hardened. I might even try that with some I have around. Shouldn’t be too hard. Unless the carbon content is just too low.
If you make some hardened ones, I’ll buy them from you. I would guess that if you targeted the same hardness as your broadheads, 52 rockwell? That will provide the strength without potential to break from brittleness.
archer38January 13, 2013 at 9:46 pmPost count: 242
Ever hear of oil hardening ? This is a simple procedure used to harden steel and I’ve used it many times in the past to make cutting bits for a metal lathe out of ordinary steel. If you heat up the steel to the point that it just starts to turn red (not glowing, just barely dark red) then dunk it in a jar of old motor oil, this will harden the steel.Maybe not to the same spec. as the broadhead, but certainly much harder than it was. Just a thought, hope this helps.
David PetersenMemberJanuary 13, 2013 at 11:15 pmPost count: 2749
What sort of heat does it take to get a steel insert glowing red for hardening? Would a standard propane torch do the trick? I should add that I’ve never ever in my long life of archery had a steel insert bend. I have had aluminum inserts bend, and break at the point where the diameter decreases for the threaded stem.
And perhaps this is a seaprate discussion, or parallel, but I’m wondering if head weight has any bearing on the tendency for inserts to bend or break? It would seem, to a knucklehead like me, that the heavier and more substantial a field point or broadhead, the less shock will be translated to the insert stem. But I guess it could go the other way as well. I’ve broken countless wood shafts close behind the head, and compressed the insert and head back into carbon shafts sufficiently to splinter them, and bent and broken broadheads (back in the old days when I used thin light 125 grain broadheads), and alum shafts seem to bend/break quite easily. I never thought of a steel insert as a weak point. Maybe I don’t shoot powerful enough bows. But I do shoot very heavy arrows. Experimentation is exploration, and both are always fun. It does sound like someone needs to torture (no, we can’t do that so let’s use a water-board) whoever makes steel inserts into admitting the quality of steel and hardness they are using. Otherwise we’re sort of shooting in the dark.
archer38January 13, 2013 at 11:44 pmPost count: 242
I’ve only ever hardened larger pieces of steel with aceteline torches so I can’t say for sure, but a propane torch might work for something as small as a steel insert.
BTW, I also have never heard of an insert bending or breaking but my experience is more limited than alot of folks on here
Vintage ArcherMemberJanuary 13, 2013 at 11:51 pmPost count: 276
It seems that bending of adapter is either associated with high FOC or heavy arrows or a combination of both. I say that not to cast negativity on FOC and heavy arrows but to call it to everyone attention. If your arrow falls into these categories maybe you should account for a possible problem.
Dr Ashby reports minimal problems with 125 grain adapters I have not heard of anyone having problems with the insert/adapter combination nor with titanium adapters.
About a year ago the company that made most of the adapters in the USA and supplied most of the large supply houses quit making adapters.
It is my understanding most of the adapters now
again are being made by one company (not original co.) may be they are using a different grade steel???
Vintage ArcherMemberJanuary 13, 2013 at 11:58 pmPost count: 276
vintage archer wrote: It seems that bending of adapter is either associated with high FOC or heavy arrows or a combination of both. I say that not to cast negativity on FOC and heavy arrows but to call it to everyone attention. If your arrow falls into these categories maybe you should account for a possible problem
When I referred to heavy arrows all experiences personal and reported were with arrows 800 grains and heavier.
all shots were made in heavy bone.
Stephen GrafModeratorModeratorJanuary 14, 2013 at 12:46 pmPost count: 2361
I didn’t start bending inserts till I started using high FOC arrows. So I can confirm that observation. And I have bent both 75 grain and 125 grain inserts. Oddly enough, the broadhead hasn’t been bent or damaged… Just the insert.
As far has oil tempering the steel goes, that would tend to soften it. The steel should be quenched rapidly to create the carbonized martensite crystalline structure. then the steel can be tempered in oil to relieve internal stresses and decrease brittleness. But all that is just crap without knowing the chemical makeup of the steel. Shooting in the dark, as they say.
I have had at least 1 arrow insert bend form simply shooting it into the ground (sorry mister squirrel 🙄 ). No rocks, no bones, no logs. Just dirt.
It is common practice to heat treat parts after machining though. So somehow, the manufacturer could be contacted to convey these problems. It should be an easy fix to get them batch treated after machining.
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