Home Forums Campfire Forum OK it finally happened and I need to vent

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    • SUSAN
      Member
      Post count: 20

      Took some precious time off from work, and got myself set up in a sweet little spot on some state land with a heavy trail headed into a picked corn field on an adjoining farm. I sat there for about an hour in great anticipation of the coming dusk when I heard the whine of small engines in the distance, moving closer. Pretty soon, here comes a dirt bike, then a 4 wheeler racing down the path within 10 feet of my sweet little spot. The kids riding them couldn’t have been more than 12. They spent the next hour (into the precious magic time,) goosing their engines down and then up every path on the state land. Vroomvroomvroom, on and on until dark. Don’t they have homework? I wondered as I packed up my stuff and walked back to my truck.

      Hasn’t happened to me in 30+ years of bowhunting. Guess I’ll make a call to the EnCon folks to see if this is even legal– they sure tore up the ground.

      End of rant.

    • Roger Norris
      Post count: 91

      Thats ugly….I had a similiar situation last week. Very frustrating.

    • lyagooshka
      Post count: 600

      I am not sure about NY laws, but here in PA one (maybe the only) advantage of public land (SGL) hunting is that no motorized vehicles are allowed. The place I hunt is about 10′ X 10′, so there are always vehicles of some sort passing by. I think the deer have grown accustom to the sound. But, for some reason, they have not grown accustom to a guy sitting under a tree in camo and refuse to come to within 10 yards of said guy. Story of my life. Anyway, sorry to hear about the ruined hunt. Really stinks to have taken some time off and not even being able to enjoy the peace and solitude of the outdoors. Be well.

      Alex

      πŸ™‚

    • David Petersen
      Member
      Post count: 2749

      Susan — form a loca BHA chapter and fight back. It’s working elsewhere and nobody else is going to take on this fight for us, the habitat, the wildlife, and sanity in an insane world. πŸ˜€

    • SUSAN
      Member
      Member
      Post count: 20

      Dave, you’re right!

    • Don Thomas
      Member
      Post count: 334

      Dave’s right. BHA is the one organization that has tackled this growing problem head on. Personally, I’m in favor of issuing one free either-sex ORV tag to everyone who buys a hunting license. πŸ™‚ Don

    • Bruce Smithhammer
      Post count: 2514

      BHA.

      X 3.

    • Stephen Smiley
      Post count: 46

      I live in upstate NY as well and am about 99% sure that riding OHV on State land is not leagle. I’m a member of BHA and have been paying attention to the success enjoyed by the chapters out west on handling this verry issue. We have no chapter in NY at this time.

    • lyagooshka
      Post count: 600

      Speaking of upstate NY, I will be seeing lots of deer there this weekend. I am going up to Ft. Drum for a 4-day FTX. Every time we cross into Drum, there they are. They don’t even move. Trying to spook them is useless. They just look at you like you are insane. Every trip to Drum, regardless of time of year, I see them. They laugh at me. If only I could get my bow. 😈 πŸ‘Ώ 😈

      Anyway, I do not know much about the laws there, but when I go up to other areas, I do see quite a few snowmobile routes. I assume these are used by ATVs during the warmer months. I really do want to look up the organizations that are fighting to limit ATV use, but as Gamagoat said, there are no chapters here to get involved in. Anyway, Dave has much more experience in these situations than I do, so I have no reason to doubt him. Be well.

      Alex

      πŸ˜€

    • SUSAN
      Member
      Member
      Post count: 20

      I’ve been a member of BHA since inception, on general principles, but it has always seemed that the focal issues are located in the west–don’t think of our meager local 512-acre state lands as “wilderness” but it needs our protection, too, it seems. I called the DEC and it is indeed illegal to use state lands for motocross. I am now armed not only with my longbow, but also with the phone numbers of the local Encon officers to call should these folks continue to run riot. Perhaps we can root out other BHA members and get something going in the east….

    • Raymond CoffmanRaymond Coffman
      Moderator
      Post count: 1023

      Huntryx – BHA x 4 – NM is just getting going [needs it bad} like anything just get some like minded folks together and start a chapter, as I am sure you know, they can be Bpackers/fisherpersons/ birdhunters etc, anybody who loves the outdoors without all the Racket and Habitat destruction!

      Iyagoosha –

      I grew up in the Military and hunted a number of Bases [Letterkenny Army Depot in PA for one – 1st deer and with a bow] can’t you bowhunt drum?

      Scout.

    • David Petersen
      Member
      Post count: 2749

      I started the first state BHA chapter, here in CO, simply by coordinating with the national board and notifying everyone I knew in CO who would be interested, mostly trad bowhunters. We started small but by diving in and working hard and getting lots of media attention, we grew quickly. It just takes one person, with a few serious friends and helpers, to get a chapter going. At the state level it’s purely a grassroots deal but requires someone to send out emails updating members on problem areas and situations, urging members to attend meetings that affect our concerns, like overuse and abuse by ATVs on public lands,ethical and wildlife management, habitat conservation, and anything that has impact on hunting and equitable public lands access. Check out the national BHA website at http://www.backcountryhunters.org then contact Rose Calcar for info on forming a chapter. You might also want to look at http://www.coloradobackcountryhunters.org for an example of a very active and successful chapter. Larry Fischer of TBM is now on the national board and the single largest contingent of hunters are trad bowhunters. Greg Munther, a frequent TBM contributor, is the MT chapter chair for instance. Yes, BHA is most active in the West because that’s where we have the most public land. But BHA is flexible, working on what a chapter’s members want to work on, and there’s no reason we don’t have active chapters all over the country except that nobody has taken the initiative to start them. I’m leaving tomorrow for a week of whitetail chasing in the Ozarks but will be happy to help anyone who is serious about forming a state chapter. State chapters range from informal, like CO (and my preference), to quite formal with their own board, like Idaho. Get some! πŸ˜€ Dave

    • SDMFer
      Post count: 54

      I had the opportunity to talk with a former chief of the forest service this morning and I was very pleased to hear the issue of ATV/OHV abuse is actually making it to the top. They can hear us, he acknowledged the abuse and the need to conserve backcountry habitats. An interesting point he brought up, there are enough roads on USFS property to make it to the moon (maybe back).

      Back to the topic, with a united voice via BHA its easier for those in a management role to hear the desires of those prefering quiet muscle powered recreational opportunites.

    • William WarrenWilliam Warren
      Member
      Post count: 1384

      We have had the same problem in NC on public land. Wardens here use ATV’s to catch them though and to patrol large tracts. So illegal riding is risky and they know it is illegal. Chances are if you had showed your presence as an adult those kids would have vanished. Problem solved. For all they know you are a Warden lying in wait for them. Not knocking BHA just saying we likely already have laws on the books that are tough to enforce with less LEO’s available to enforce them. If BHA gets in Law Enforcements ear and stays there about it the squeaky wheel might get the grease.

    • handirifle
      Post count: 409

      SDMFer wrote: I had the opportunity to talk with a former chief of the forest service this morning and I was very pleased to hear the issue of ATV/OHV abuse is actually making it to the top. They can hear us, he acknowledged the abuse and the need to conserve backcountry habitats. An interesting point he brought up, there are enough roads on USFS property to make it to the moon (maybe back).

      Back to the topic, with a united voice via BHA its easier for those in a management role to hear the desires of those prefering quiet muscle powered recreational opportunites.

      I was concerned where this would end till I read that they had plenty of other roads to ride, let me explain why.

      I do not own or use an ATV. Would I if i had one? Not sure, probably, but only where legal, they have a legit use. I say all this cause I do not want to be one that starts up something that cuts out someone else using the great outdoors, just so I can.

      At the same time, I know first hand how infuriating SOME ATV riders can be and sympathize with the either sex tag idea. I say keep them to specified sections or designated areas, and let them have at it.

      Some years back on my only elk hunt, ever, I was hunting in NM with two co-workers. We had an area scouted out, and had hiked to it well before dawn. Actually heard bugles just before dawn and we were all getting really excited, till 3 guys came roaring by on ATV’s, REALLY?

      Never saw that bull, but did hear him again about a mile away. We saw the tracks and there was a good number of elk with him, probably a satellite bull too.

      If you form a BHA, my suggestion is to approach the state folks with the intent of preserving certain areas for all to use equally, otherwise we that use the outdoors are at odds with other factions that also want the same rights we want.

      Remember also, that the more the government is involved in our sport, the less we will get out of it. After almost 60 years of living, I have found every time they get involved, we all lose something.

    • Bruce Smithhammer
      Post count: 2514

      I think you make some good points, handirifle . I’m on the Idaho state board for BHA, and I think that one thing we need to make sure doesn’t become a prevalent misconception is that BHA is an all-out “anti-ATV” organization. The truth is that BHA is a responsible use organization – we’re not seeking to get ATVs banned everywhere.

      Instead, we are working to make sure that the penalties for ATV abuses on public lands are truly a significant deterrent (they currently are not much of one in many states). We are also working for visible licensing so that abusers can be easily identified. In a number of states, all that is required right now is a small registration sticker that is difficult/impossible to read from a distance.

      We are also working to educate ATV users as a group to promote responsible use, and self-monitoring of their own user group. There are obviously many ATV users who are responsible, but they also need to realize (and I think many are starting to) that the irresponsible element of their user group is leading to them getting locked out of many areas. ATV users monitoring their own, and supporting reasonable mgmt. would be a great step forward.

      And lastly, we also work with land mgmt. agencies to inform how important angling and hunting areas are managed, and impacted, in regards to ATVs as well as other factors.

      But it is critical, in my opinion that we are not perceived as just being outright an anti-ATV group. We can get a lot more accomplished by getting responsible users on our side, and working with them, than trying to oppose them as an entire user group (note – this is my personal opinion, not speaking on behalf of BHA here).

    • Col MikeCol Mike
      Member
      Post count: 910

      BHA x5

      I may be the only member in MD. Can’t get more informal then that. If wrong would enjoy hearing from others. Now involved in fight to prevent fracking (yes in our state forests) has become almost a full time job.

      Semper Fi

      Mike

    • jmsmithy
      Member
      Post count: 300

      lyagooshka wrote: Speaking of upstate NY, I will be seeing lots of deer there this weekend. I am going up to Ft. Drum for a 4-day FTX. Every time we cross into Drum, there they are. They don’t even move. Trying to spook them is useless. They just look at you like you are insane. Every trip to Drum, regardless of time of year, I see them. They laugh at me. If only I could get my bow. 😈 πŸ‘Ώ 😈

      Anyway, I do not know much about the laws there, but when I go up to other areas, I do see quite a few snowmobile routes. I assume these are used by ATVs during the warmer months. I really do want to look up the organizations that are fighting to limit ATV use, but as Gamagoat said, there are no chapters here to get involved in. Anyway, Dave has much more experience in these situations than I do, so I have no reason to doubt him. Be well.

      Alex

      πŸ˜€

      Hey Alex

      I’m an Adirondack guy (when I’m not stuck in NJ!). Correct, atv use is illegal on State Land, Wild Forest Land etc. there is a handicap permit available. Snowmobiling a bit different as there are designated routes etc (there are for atvs as well, just not on State Land). As for hunting, the snowmobiles aren’t nearly as big an issue as that season doesn’t open until all big game seasons are over (plus there is that need of snow issue πŸ˜€ ). Of course grouse, coyote and a few other things are open at that time. Also, it appears to me that the snowmobiles don’t do near the damage that atv’s do. I am an avid user of both, along with my family and we always stay on approved paths/trails etc for either vehicle. Really burns me up to hear the atvs when hunting knowing they are in an area they aren’t allowed to be…not only do these outlaw riders do virtually all the damage (as opposed to the responsible users who obey the rules) but they give us legitimate riders a bad name…

      If you start a chapter up north, let me know…I’ll join in! πŸ˜€

      >>>–>

    • Stumpkiller
      Member
      Post count: 193

      HUNTRYX wrote: Took some precious time off from work, and got myself set up in a sweet little spot on some state land with a heavy trail headed into a picked corn field on an adjoining farm. I sat there for about an hour in great anticipation of the coming dusk when I heard the whine of small engines in the distance, moving closer. Pretty soon, here comes a dirt bike, then a 4 wheeler racing down the path within 10 feet of my sweet little spot. The kids riding them couldn’t have been more than 12. They spent the next hour (into the precious magic time,) goosing their engines down and then up every path on the state land. Vroomvroomvroom, on and on until dark. Don’t they have homework? I wondered as I packed up my stuff and walked back to my truck.

      Hasn’t happened to me in 30+ years of bowhunting. Guess I’ll make a call to the EnCon folks to see if this is even legal– they sure tore up the ground.

      End of rant.

      Had a similar problem where I used to hunt. I figured out where the ATV guys tended to go and found some thick stuff about 150 yards away along a natural funnel. Worked like a charm. When the deer heard the ATVs coming they came to me.

      Eventually that land went to a paid hunting lease – part of what prompted me to buy a home with some wooded land so I had some control over my destiny.

    • Ripforce
      Post count: 225

      I am hunting on some state land (for the first time) here in Northern Mi that is right behind my house! There is a well used dirt road that runs through the tract of land, & there are several hunting leases adjacent to the state land! I walk an old two track that has grown in to the point that a SUV/truck can’t drive down it cause of overgrowth and down trees! But that does not stop the 4 wheelers and dirtbikes, on the weekend its non stop and as stated lots of younger people I am lucky the noise it doesn’t effect my hunting cause I am back off the road, it just gets annoying with them driving back and forth! What I do worry about is my wife & several other people walk dogs etc & there are lots of blind spots and corners on the main dirt road, they do not slow down and it seems as though its intensified in the last couple years plus they act like they do not give a rip! I have had to put the Fear of God into a couple of them, on a few occasions!

    • Backcountry Joe
      Post count: 39

      It’s good to see all the support for BHA. A few folks posted that they didn’t have chapters established in there states. It only takes three officers to establish a chapter, and if anyone wants to organize some folks let me know and I’ll set something up.

      A few years ago I found my self complaining about the current state of disreguard for our public lands here in Washington. I was a little tuned up around the campfire with some friends, complaining, when I noticed my kids listening in. I relized that I was setting a poor example by complaining and not taking an effective stand.

      Since then I’ve become a member of BHA, I was a founding member for our state chapter as well as a co-chair. I’ve met with hundreds of people to express our concerns for habitat, land abuse, and forestry pratices. I went from complaining around a campfire to being heard at the state level.

      Two years ago I became a National board member with the intent to learn from the people that have been doing this for along time. I have had the pleasure of meeting like minded folks from all over the country. I even took a trip to DC to pleed our case. I was heard at the national level.

      I guess what I’m tring to express is that one person can make a diffrence. Good luck on the road you choose.

    • David Petersen
      Member
      Post count: 2749

      Joe — While I suspect that most of us would prefer the “open season on ATV jerks” solution (my personal favorite is piano wire), we no longer live in a Clint Eastwood world, if we ever did. So our best bet is precisely the path you have taken. And I sense satisfaction in hearing your story. BHA is no magic bullet and far too many folks approach it with the same old attitude of “I’ll send in some money and let others do the work.” In fact BHA was founded precisely NOT to follow that old path but rather to facilitate real sportsmen and women who want to stand and speak and be heard. It has worked out to be such a powerful group, though still young and under-funded, precisely because of good folks like you, Joe, and Greg Munther and so many others, many or most of whom are trad bowhunters. We have learned that if we write letters and comments and attend meetings and simply say “I am a hunter and I know this piece of public land intimately, boots on the ground, and you need to take better care of it,” we win far more often than you’d expect for a group that’s small in numbers and is mostly volunteer. There is SO much to complain about these days … and one of my primary complaints are all the people who complain and not only DO nothing, but so often criticize those of us who do stand and deliver. Good work, Joe!

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