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    • johnny2
      Post count: 135

      If you read my other posts you can tell I like to stir the pot. I am interested in other peoples opinions, I’m very opinionated, I like to debate, and I want people to look at issues from different levels and view points. So, here goes…. What is you opinion of the NRA, this was first discussed in regard to the NRA backing the push for crossbows during the Pennsylvania bow season. To me it smelled like a membership drive for the NRA and/or kickbacks from crossbow mfg. The NRA is too political for my tastes, your pro gun donation also supports some policies you may not agree with ( conservation policies come to mind). Let’s talk about it.

    • andy*
      Post count: 10

      The NRA has done a lot to protect our gun rights and to promote shooting sports. However I feel like there is a “you are with us, or against us” attitude, which makes me feel unwelcome. That being said I shudder to think what would happen to gun rights/ gun owners, if the NRA was not around.

    • crash87
      Post count: 20

      The one thing one must relize is the fact that an orginization, a large, one in particular IS NOT going to do everything you like. If they did, it would be your, orginization, and good luck with that. What’s wrong with donations from a manufactuer. It’s working capitol, something you need to fend of the other’s. To back a cross bow issue is not wrong, my personal feelings aside. They look at it as a way to get more people in the hunting fields and YES, it is a way to get members. I would hate to see where we, as hunters, would be without orginizations such as the NRA. The more “THEY” try & whittle away at our great constitution the less rights and/or opportunities we would have. Remember it is the largest pro gun lobby out there and it is a force to be reconded with, that is a fact by the way, not an opinion. Everything is related to one another, limit guns, you limit hunting, you limit hunting, you limit opportunities to hunt, don’t think your bow can be effected, Guess again! CRASH87

    • SteveMcD
      Member
      Post count: 870

      I think you bring up great points Crash. I am a Life/Endowment Member of the NRA. And no, I do not agree with everything they do or how they go about it. But, they are foremost out there protecting our Gun Rights, which inherently protects our hunting rights as well. ( I know the government would say hunting is a privilege not a right, hence the reason we need organizations like the NRA, SCI, PBS, Compton’s and state organizations, etc). I am also a member of Compton’s and PBS, but I have no issues with the crossbow personally. However, many organizations like Compton’s and PBS have been outspoken against the crossbow. I belong to these organizations because I have a passion for and support Traditional Bowhunting. I try to think in a positive way, I belong because of what I am for and not at all because of what I am against.

    • crittergitter
      Post count: 42

      i am not terribly well informed about nra but i do know they are the biggest protector of gun and therefore hunting rights.and if i could not shoot my favorite 22 or hunt deer with my bow,i would not find this world worth living in.so for me nra needs to stay.

    • Donnie
      Post count: 19

      No matter what orginization or club you belong to… you’re probably not going to agree with everything they do. But that doesnt mean that you are right to begin with… or that the orginization or club isnt a valuable entity.

      The fact is that we need orginizations like the NRA, Comptons, SCI, ect… ect… There are groups out there that are actively trying to take our rights, as Americans, away and we need orginizations like these to keep the “antis” in check.

      If they can take away my rights as a gun owner… then what next? My hunting rights?… Then it will be my bow… or my freedom of religion… how about my freedom of speech? Tho I havent hunted with a gun in over 20 years… I am still a member of the NRA… and am glad to stand with a group that actively opposes those who would take away my freedoms, which would ultimately include bowhunting.

      Take care!

      Donnie

    • Chris Shelton
      Post count: 679

      the only major problem i have with the nra is they were so anxious to get my life time membership money but they cant provide insurence untill i was eighteen, it was only like 6 months but still!!

    • Ed Ashby
      Member
      Post count: 816

      The NRA is the number one defender of our Second Amendment Right to “keep and bear arms”. The Second Amendment isn’t about hunting. It purpose is to assure the citizenry’s right to protect itself from outside threats of all types: personal attack, foreign attack, or the actions of our own government. It’s about our individual right to possess ARMS … and that doesn’t mean just “firearms”.

      Ed

    • johnny2
      Post count: 135

      Let’s be honest here, giving money to the NRA is in essence donating to the republican party and while I agree with most republican ideas I also disagree with many mainly concerning enviromental issues. If I must choose between my bow and guns or the well being of our wild places, flora, and fauna, well, I’ll turn in my weapons today. My suggestion is to change the NRA from an extension of the GOP to a non-partisan entity. Use some money and time to change the minds of voters and politicians on gun issues not to convert them to the other party. Everyone agrees that the NRA is the voice for gun owners. The members and potential members need to tell the NRA what that voice shoud be saying, but sadly most of us sit back and say that what we have now is the best we can hope for.

    • paza
      Post count: 28

      I have to agree with Dr. Ashby’s comment 100%, I don’t believe the crossbows should be in the regular bow season, but we need all the support we can get. Maybe there should be a seperate season for the crossbows, maybe a shorter time period just before the rut and also during the gun seasons.

    • Bvalette
      Post count: 19

      I’m a life member of NRA and Safari Club International (SCI) and I belong to my local archery clubs and shooting clubs.
      I like the diversity. I’m a hunter and I hunt with tradional equipment, and I hunt with a scoped rifle and an open sight lever action.
      I do think the NRA is extreme at times, but sometimes extreme needs to be the course of action to get what you want and to protect what you want.
      And I certainly don’t agree with everything they stand for and for that matter I don’t agree with everything my own profession stands for (psychologist) or even my local archery range rules! But overall, I agree. And the mission of the NRA is what I’m part of and agree with.
      Like many forms of media, I do think the NRA uses scare tactics at times and fogs the truth.
      I remember being at an NRA breakfast meeting of rifle hunters and the table was very vocal about getting rid of wolves. I told them that it made no sense to me that hunters wanted to ‘rid the planet of wolves.” We are conservationists for all animals, not just the ones we like. It didn’t go over well, but I still stand behind my belief and I don’t understand why some animals are seen as extinguishable and other not.
      I’ll stay a member of NRA because I want my second ammendment rights protected. Just like my first ammendement rights.
      BV

    • Killdeer
      Post count: 43

      Thank you Dr. Ashby, that gets right to the nubbin.

      I was a bit miffed at the NRA’s getting into the crossbow thing, but I can see where there would be a sizable faction of their membership who would applaud it.
      Originally, the NRA was an educational organization, devoted to the teaching of marksmanship to the citizenry, that the recruits in the armed services would have a leg up in their training and the population and the nation as a whole would be stronger. As times changed, the legislative side of things took more and more of a front seat in the priorities of the organization. Thus was born the Institute for Legislative Action.

      The NRA is “too political” because it is politics that can preserve or take away our right to bear arms.

      I am nonplussed at a lot of things that the Republican Party seems to back, and find following a strict “party line” of any group to be stifling and mindless. However, the Republican position is strong on self-reliance, including the right to use arms in self-defense. I tend to think that as long as the populace is armed, we will be able to hang on to those freedoms and ideals that we hold dear.

      Killdeer
      Benefactor Member, NRA
      Life Member, Virginia Shooting Sports Association
      Life Member, Izaak Walton League
      Member, Virginia Bowhunters’ Association

    • T. J. Conrads
      Admin
      Post count: 52

      Killdeer:

      Nonplussed … excellent description of the dichotomy many of us feel in regards to the NRA and the crossgun topic. As a Life Member of the NRA for over 29 years, and a member for much longer that that, I, too, am perplexed at their support of this weapon in archery seasons.

      Like many, I was tempted … still am … at requesting to be removed from their membership. The NRA needs to keep its focus on gun rights, which is, and always has been, its purpose. The idea that the NRA should protect, defend, and promote all types of hunting is not their main cause, unless I missed something in the last 30 years.

      TBM has, in the past, been a huge contributor the the ILA’s Bowhunter Defense Coalition; I have to question our support today.

      But I digress…

      The NRA needs to stay focused on gun rights. After all, If we get to a point of revolution again, which seems more likely every day, we are all going to need to be not only head-strong, but also gun-strong; there are many talking about the fact that the time is coming where we may be forced to take the country back from a tyrannical government, which we find ourselves under today.

      Enough said for this time of the morning; however, you are indeed correct that an armed populace will override any attempts to take away ALL our rights and freedoms. After all, no government in history has been able to enslave its people when they possess the means to defend themselves.

    • johnny2
      Post count: 135

      “The NRA needs to stay focused on gun rights” is exactly the point. That being said, I don’t buy all the scare tactics about the government waiting in the wings to swoop in and take our guns. The extremists, left or right, will not decide our fate. It will be the majority in the middle, and when the face of gun owners is an organization that seems to far out in right field for most Americans, we have a problem. And if you don’t think the NRA has an image problem just ask your friends that don’t own guns or hunt. I have. Case in point: the NRA says gun owners should be allowed to own and use any weapon they choose. I’m of course talking about assault and fully automatic weapons. Where do you draw the line of common sense and social responsibility? What about the guys who want to own and hunt with bazookas? 😉

    • Alex Bugnon
      Post count: 1
    • johnny2
      Post count: 135

      Well, after viewing this video I believe it makes my point. Why in the world would you bring a gun to a presidential event? I believe his intent was to bring to light certain rights we enjoy but how could this possibly put gun owners in a good light? And don’t ya just have that gut feelin that Mr. Kostric will soon be(if not already) an NRA poster child.
      For the most part this interview had little to do with gun rights and everything to do with a left wing advocate and a umm…..I don’t know what you would call Mr. Kostric but he is certainly an extremist, discussing other social and government philosophies. Two people that I believe most of America would have a tough time relating to. Actually later in the interview Mr Mathews, an openly liberal member of the media, claims he has no problem with our second amendment. This tells me that sometimes we as gun owners are our own worst enemy( no gun brought to the event = no discussion about whether you should or not). I’ll say it again, at some point common sense and social resposibility have to be the bottom line.
      A few years back smoking in a public building was banned in my state, the same arguement that we were losing rights was the rallying cry of the smoking crowd. The fact that my children and myself inhaled their poison and that my clothes reeked after leaving a smoke filled convenience store didn’t concern them at all. We all have to consider the thoughts and feelings of our fellow citizens. That is how a society works.

    • Clay Hayes
      Member
      Post count: 418

      Wow, that was a great interview. I was impressed at how well composed Mr. Kostric was while Chris was trying his best to make him go into a rant.

      He made some good points as well. I don’t think he’s extreme. He made the point that people can carry firearms peacefully.

    • johnny2
      Post count: 135

      Wow is right! After reading your post I can’t believe we saw the same video. That’s why this is such a great country, everyone can express their opinion.

      One other question to anyone who cares to respond. After re-reading past posts “they” are mentioned a few times in reference to taking our guns. Who is they? I haven’t found evidence of any govt agency trying to take our guns other than assault weapons. Yes, some people don’t understand why we want to own guns for hunting or protection and they lobby for more laws out of ignorance. Shouldn’t the NRA educate and …. here comes something radical…..COMPROMISE and CONSIDER other opinions instead of alienating folks that don’t own guns? Seems like I’ve heard something about catching more flies with honey…..:idea::D

    • Jesse Minish
      Post count: 115

      I think I saw the same interview Clay saw.

      You think the NRA should compromise on our second amendment? That is scary to me. Why should a law abiding citizen not be allowed to own an machine gun (assault rifle was a term created by the Nazis because it sounded scary)? The last time I checked not anyone could own a fully auto rifle or bazookas for hunting anyhow.

      You asked who are “they” that are trying to take are guns away? “They” are the organizations that are backing the liberal party just as you say the NRA is in with the conservatives. Also “they” are many of the liberal party members that are opposed to gun rights. I don’t think I should have to name names on those who are.

    • johnny2
      Post count: 135

      Apparently you don’t know anyone that owns fully auto weapons. I know two. I have been present when said weapon was fired. Neither of these guys has a criminal record. Both scare me with an automatic weapon in hand. Assault rifles ARE scary, they were built exclusively to kill people. Yes, with a permit you can own a fully auto weapon. But why would you want to?

      I mentioned the bazooka tongue in cheek. My point was where does it stop. I hate to break this to everyone but we can’t all do everything that we want to. There are rules. The majority sets the rules. I just don’t think the best way to sway the majority is to persist with an “us” versus “them” mentality.

      At the risk of offending everyone, does anyone here actually know and talk to people that don’t own weapons or hunt? I suggest that we all do and present ourselves as considerate citizens instead of the “my way or else” attitude that seems to prevail with the NRA. There are lots of view points out there and if the only people you talk to are your hunting peers then you are in effect “preachin to the choir” while likewise narrowing your own view. Like it or not there is a big picture to look at.

      Let me tell ya’ll where I’m coming from, literally. I live in a hundred year old farm house(that I’ll be fixing up for years) ten miles from the nearest town of four hundred and four miles from the Ozark National Forest. The local school shut down for the first day of deer season up till five years ago. I have hunted and fished for over thirty years. My wife and daughters hunt and fish(we live on wild meat). We attend a small church in the woods. I chew tobacco. I drive a Ford 4×4 and an 81 Jeep CJ5. For Pete’s sake my wife drives a Ford pickup truck. By some accounts we are the definition of conservative redneck. Most of our neighbors live similiar lifestyles. Yet even in our backwoods community these issues have come up. Welcome to the new century(crap, almost a new decade). It’s time to update our ideas to protect our rights.

    • Clay Hayes
      Member
      Post count: 418

      Johnny, I see where you’re coming from, and I think we share many of the same views when it comes to politics. I’ve always considered myself pretty conservative until it comes to environmental issues. I do, however, think you’re missing the point of the above interview. The guy did nothing out of accordance with the law, he exercised his right to carry a firearm, and nothing happened. It was a peaceful demonstration. It’s not the law abiding citizens that carry a pistol in plain view that worry me. It’s the guy that bought a second hand, stolen gun off the street and has it stuck in his pants. That’s the guy that I’m scared of.

      I don’t see any need for full auto weapons, but I also know that by banning them, nothing will change. It’s human nature. There are nut cases out there and they will find a way to hurt people. I want my right to carry and protect my family if I ever meet one of those nuts.

      I’m not a member of the NRA and I doubt I will be until they focus on their main objective of protecting the second amendment and stay out of hunting issues.

      ch

    • johnny2
      Post count: 135

      Clay, I have no problem with carrying a handgun. I don’t carry but I do have a loaded 357 in my night stand. I agree that we don’t need more laws we need better law enforcement.

      While looking at the video we, as gun owners, see what you saw. A peaceful demonstration of gun owner rights. What you have to do is look at that video through the eyes of someone that doesn’t own a gun, that didn’t grow up with guns in their houses as many of us did. In that light the guy comes out looking a lot different. A visible side arm, a message board with a quote that could be construed as a call for revolution, all this at an event for a democratic president. See where I’m goin? A: this guy is trying to push every button he can with liberals, or, B: this guy is really trying to start something. If this is the only gun owner many non gun owners see we may be digging our own hole. We must look at our image from as many angles as possible.

    • Mark Turton
      Post count: 759

      Hi All

      Fascinating debate, I live in the UK where things are a little different, the majority of people have only ever seen guns on the TV so their idea of a hunting rifle is an M16 and they believe that a .223 round will blow up a car.

      The majority of my friends hunt and fish to different degrees but those that don’t are always fascinated to find that I have a cupboard full of rifles and shotguns and treat them almost like pornography they really want to look and touch but aren’t sure if they should, always makes me laugh. Some will come clay pigeon shooting when the offer is made or to the range and very occasionally hunting.

      Bowhunting has been banned for many years so we have to travel for everything, France is about 3-8 hours depending on the port or tunnel I leave from so it’s not so far and the tradition of taking a bow to France goes back to the middle ages (they don’t like to be reminded of that) but I have always found the French to be good companions and hosts. A bit off subject but what I was getting round to is the look on people’s faces when I tell them I’m going bow hunting for wildboar, that’s when all look at me as if I’m mad.

      Back to your debate, you may consider how and why the current legislation came to be in place and the context that it was made in. How that legislation has been amended and why and what amendments to it are right and proper and will benefit those that inherit your legislative system in 50 and 100 years time.

      Don’t get so caught up in the present that you lose site of the whole picture, just the observations of one who has been fighting this battle for 35 years.

      Mark.

      20/08/09
      Last night I watched a documentary ‘Gun Nation’ I can’t see how you start to review any of the US firearms legislation. More confused than ever now. Mark.

    • Wary Buck
      Post count: 15

      The newest American Hunter Magazine held an article by Patrick Durkin I believe which was very one-sided, quoting extensively from a game manager in KY (I believe) who was aggressively pro-crossbow. Crossbows, by themselves, are not the problem. Crossbows in the existing archery season is the issue, yet this article conveniently glossed over that fact and the teaser headline on the cover of the magazine was adding insult to my injury.

      I’m a life member of NRA, and have supported them (just as they’ve supported me as a gun-owner and strong 2nd Amendment advocate). However, their new policy for (I’m paraphrasing) supporting any additional hunting options that would not effect the biology of the species is problematic in two main areas: 1-it diverts their attention and/or resources from the 2nd Amendment protection which is their duty; and, 2-taken as written, such a policy could lead to a three-month deer season with concurrent use of guns and bows and every other weapon the NRA sees fit. The problem with No. 2 is that the same amount of deer would get killed (assuming the same number of permits), hence the biological impact would be similar, but the ending of bow-only seasons as we know them would be destructive beyond belief for us.

      Every time the NRA sends me a request for add’l money, I’m returning it with a handwritten note fighting this ridiculous stance which divides sportsmen, supports adding crossbows to existing bow seasons we fought hard for, and which has no grassroots support from crossbow enthusiasts. The support for crossbows in bow seasons come from manufacturers who would whore all of us to make more money and convert thousands of gun-hunters into archers despite them not having the dedication to learn to shoot a compound or stickbow. It also can come from game depts. who see dollar signs with the ability to make more people buy permits.

      The NRA’s sticking their nose into this matter upsets me to no end. I’ll continue to support the NRA with my weekly outdoor column (in our local paper) when it comes to pro-gun issues. But I’m not happy with them at present.

    • Clay Hayes
      Member
      Post count: 418

      For Game management agencies in the south and east, getting crossbows allowed in archery season is probably primarily a management issue. The simple fact is that they have to many deer not enough are being killed. Crossbows would up the harvest. Just the facts. I’m not advocating crossbows.

    • Hiram
      Post count: 484

      The NRA has done more to protect your second ammendment rights than anyone since the Constitution.
      These rights should be preserved by your monetary support of the NRA.
      Remember that: Firearms are the pre-requisite to your right to own Archery equipment.

    • johnny2
      Post count: 135

      Firearms are not the pre-requisite to the right to own archery equipment. Ever hear of Will and Maurice Thompson?
      I would challenge your first statement as well because most info about how much the NRA does comes from the NRA

    • Hiram
      Post count: 484

      Challenge away! Healthy, respectful discussion is the best way to educate.
      Fact one. There are those who want to outlaw hunting.
      Fact two. There are those who would like all firearms outlawed.
      Fact three. The NRA stands between us and them lobbying Washington everyday to protect and preserve both.
      How? By preserving firearms, they preserve hunting.
      Archery equipment is a means by which game is taken.
      Those who would have your hunting, would like to have your means to do so!
      Simple analogy Johnny: You must see the entire scope of things in order to understand that: Private, legal, ownership of firearms is protected by the constitution. Should be the simple end of the story but, it is not! The Anti’s are one and the same threat to both Hunting and firearms which will lead to your archery equipment.
      OK, be niave if you will but, at least educate yourself with reality by exploreing the subject more. We must protect the pre-requisite to our beloved Bow by supporting the orgs that are legitemately support our “Birth right”. Get on board Man! We need you.:)

    • johnny2
      Post count: 135

      I don’t have a problem with the idea of an organization protecting our gun rights, I have a problem with the way the NRA does it. I believe there are better, more effective ways. And I don’t believe you should compromise any other political view point to protect your guns(again, conservation issues come to mind), but if I must, some things are more important than my guns.
      I don’t want to cover everything I’ve already said on this post, so in summary; I believe the NRA is more concerned with the republican party agenda when they should focus on gun owner agenda. I also think they would rather be a bully than work towards agreements we can all live with. I am well informed, I read things other than NRA/republican literature. Because I am informed I cannot support them.

    • Hiram
      Post count: 484

      Oh well, to me firearms are the most important!
      That explains your priorities.
      Firearms Protect, Provide food, and are prized possessions of ownership.
      See, not much has changed in several hundred years by those who really need them.
      Several good Orgs. out there, join and support the one you wish.
      For me and mine, the NRA.:)

    • Patrick
      Member
      Post count: 1148

      I had wanted to post A LONG TIME AGO to this thread, but just didn’t have the time. There was a discussion on the previous forum that I restrained myself from adding my two cents worth to as well. I’ll be brief:

      To me it’s simple. This country was founded on the idea of LIBERTY being of utmost importance. The limited government we are SUPPOSE to have was a very precious gift brought about by our Founding Fathers and it should be considered as such. With this freedom, comes responsibility… individual responsibility. As government becomes more entrenched in our daily lives, people become more and more dependent on the government. It evolves into supposed entitlements. The government becomes more restrictive, we lose our freedom I don’t think the NRA goes far enough. Conservation is important. But I think so many people are so short sighted that they don’t really think about the fact that we have only had this country for 200 years. We take our freedoms for granted. Please do yourselves a favor and read:
      “The 5000 Year Leap” by W. Cleon Skousen
      “The Founders’ Second Amendment” by Stephen P. Halbrook
      I could go on but I have to get back to work 🙂

      [fixing typos…I was working on very short time limit. LOL]

    • Hiram
      Post count: 484

      Amen Patrick!:)

    • William Warren
      Member
      Post count: 1384

      I’ve been an NRA Life member for 30 years. I know we can rely on them to stave off the constant attacks on our rights. I don’t always agree with everything they say and do and sometimes I just vote the way I want to but I always back them because they consistently get results when we need it.
      Don’t agree totally with the crossbow thing but I understand the importance of numbers when holding the line against a liberal Congress. I’m glad they are lobbying for our rights.

    • Hiram
      Post count: 484

      The string rifle thing is subjective but, the best thing to do is lobby your local reps and email the NRA ref your feelings. Nugent is a string rifle proponet and sits on the NRA board. I feel he does this because he really believes it is a legitimate hunting tool. Heres where it goes wrong for me. The game and fish agencies include its use in Archery season! This is wrong!!!! If they feel it should be used as a hunting device, they should have a season exclusive/certified disabilty users or, have a draw only for the disabled hunters. I personally like the draw if it has to be included.String rifles (crossbows) are not Bows! Bows must be drawn with one hand while the other holds it, simultanous with the shot. Bottom line, they are not a Bow! You can lay in the woods under a camo covering and just raise up and shoot with little movement (not drawn)to kill animals.They should not be included in archery catagories!:)

    • Konrad
      Post count: 62

      The National Rifle Association is the only, powerful PAC that defends the second amendment with rhetoric, advertisement and voting campaigns.

      It also happens that its money comes from membership dues and membership dues alone.

      If “progressives” get all they desire, possession of archery equipment would be illegal along with anything else that could be construed as a weapon.

      After all, a man armed with a short recurve and a couple of dozen broadhead tipped arrows could wreak havoc in a shopping mall.

      Nothing in this world is perfect but the NRA is the best we have protecting our basic freedoms.

      The ACLU sure isn’t going to bat for weapons ownership!

    • dmc
      Post count: 2

      History always repeats itself. As hunters,trappers,Fishermen and all who enjoy the shooting sports remember; UNITED WE STAND DIVIDED WE FALL

    • Hiram
      Post count: 484

      Amen Conrad!

    • Chris Shelton
      Post count: 679

      just read all of the posts, and I think alot of you either have not read Dr. Ashbys post or you have forgotten, he said very clearly that the second amendment does not protect our gun rights, It protects our rights to keep and bare arms, so that broad definition would definatly include our archery equipment. This post was in reference to the posts between jonny2 and hiram up at the top!

    • Patrick
      Member
      Post count: 1148

      Greatreearcher wrote: just read all of the posts, and I think alot of you either have not read Dr. Ashbys post or you have forgotten, he said very clearly that the second amendment does not protect our gun rights, It protects our rights to keep and bare arms, so that broad definition would definatly include our archery equipment. This post was in reference to the posts between jonny2 and hiram up at the top!

      The proverbial can of worms. With all due respect, if that’s what Dr Ashby said, then he is quite simply wrong, almost comically so. Do your own research. Don’t take anyone’s word for it.

      EDIT: I went back and read Dr Ashby’s post. I took the post that I quoted out of context. I don’t think it would ever hold up in court, but I would agree with his sentiment.

    • johnny2
      Post count: 135

      Patrick wrote: I had wanted to post A LONG TIME AGO to this thread, but just didn’t have the time. There was a discussion on the previous forum that I restrained myself from adding my two cents worth to as well. I’ll be brief:

      To me it’s simple. This country was founded on the idea of LIBERTY being of utmost importance. The limited government we are SUPPOSE to have was a very precious gift brought about by our Founding Fathers and it should be considered as such. With this freedom, comes responsibility… individual responsibility. As government becomes more entrenched in our daily lives, people become more and more dependent on the government. It evolves into supposed entitlements. The government becomes more restrictive, we lose our freedom I don’t think the NRA goes far enough. Conservation is important. But I think so many people are so short sighted that they don’t really think about the fact that we have only had this country for 200 years. We take our freedoms for granted. Please do yourselves a favor and read:
      “The 5000 Year Leap” by W. Cleon Skousen
      “The Founders’ Second Amendment” by Stephen P. Halbrook
      I could go on but I have to get back to work 🙂

      [fixing typos…I was working on very short time limit. LOL]

      On the contrary, concern for our enviroment would require a very broad view of the big picture. With no place to hunt what would be the point of anything on this website. Indeed, we all need clean air, clean water, a place to stretch our legs, and some places on this earth not touched by human hands with or without our guns and bows. I believe if this is not of paramount concern to someone short-sighted would be the very definition of their views.

      I also believe the “chicken little syndrome” is running rampant among us and I believe the NRA fuels these fears. I’m sorry, I just don’t believe the democratic party is on a mission to turn us into a communist state.

      Why can’t the NRA change their approach to protecting our rights? Maybe a less intimidating image to folks that don’t own guns.

    • Patrick
      Member
      Post count: 1148

      johnny2 wrote:
      On the contrary, concern for our enviroment would require a very broad view of the big picture. With no place to hunt what would be the point of anything on this website. Indeed, we all need clean air, clean water, a place to stretch our legs, and some places on this earth not touched by human hands with or without our guns and bows. I believe if this is not of paramount concern to someone short-sighted would be the very definition of their views.

      I also believe the “chicken little syndrome” is running rampant among us and I believe the NRA fuels these fears. I’m sorry, I just don’t believe the democratic party is on a mission to turn us into a communist state.

      Why can’t the NRA change their approach to protecting our rights? Maybe a less intimidating image to folks that don’t own guns.

      Chicken Little Syndrome?! LOL! Yeah, like the environmental extremist movement? Nevertheless…Tell that to those in New Orleans who had their guns confiscated when they needed them the most. Tell that to DC residents who had to go the the Supreme Court to get their rights back, and still not fully. Tell that to Chicago residents, etc. etc. The list goes on. It isn’t about hunting. It doesn’t matter whether you own a gun or not (and IN FACT, I currently don’t own one!).

      You are stating the obvious. Yes, we need clean air, water, etc. You seem to think gun rights and conservation are polar opposites. They are not.

      The ideas that “we” espouse, are not for today only, they are for 200 years from now as well. I’ll guarantee Germans never, in their wildest dreams, figured they would have ELECTED a monster like Hitler, but they did. I could site many examples to prove to you there is no such thing as a guarantee. Vigilance is required. We can and HAVE lost many of our freedoms. So don’t say we can’t become a “communist” country. We can become anything the people allow.

      By the way, You mention “democrats”, I intentionally never mentioned a party. It is about following the Constitution. I don’t give a rat’s rear-end what party you’re affiliated with. You either abide by the Constitution, or it’s a useless piece of paper. If you disagree with the 2nd Amendment, fight to abolish it. Don’t act as though it doesn’t exist.

    • johnny2
      Post count: 135

      Never said I agreed with the extremists and I stated the obvious because you dismissed enviromental concerns as being “short sighted”. I thought maybe we needed to get our priorities straight as to what was most important.

      Your correct, gun rights and conservation are not polar opposites but it does come down to partisan politics and any support to the NRA inevitably supports a republican candidate. Do you really want to discuss the horrible track record republicans have regarding enviroment vs. capitalism at all costs?

      I don’t understand what you are trying to say with the last two sentences in your post. I hope you aren’t trying to say I don’t agree with the second amendment.

      Speaking of New Orleans, if you will do a little research you will find that Katrina was so destructive to that city because the wetlands, a buffer to huge storms like that one for centuries, has been decimated due to our lack of attention to environmental issues. No storm rampaging through, no need to take any guns away. I believe that’s a view of the big picture.

    • Patrick
      Member
      Post count: 1148

      My, short sighted reference, was regarding liberty. Had nothing to do with environmental concerns.

      I don’t make excuses for anyone and I’m not going to argue Dem vs Repub with you or anyone else. I already stated invidivdual responsibility is paramount in a Republic. People standing by politicians only because they are from the same party you affiliate with, when they’ve done wrong is A HUGE PROBLEM!!!

      My 2nd Amendment statement stands by itself. If that doesn’t apply to you, great.

      Your NOLA reference is WAY out of scope. The government confiscated peoples guns. People who live below sea level, near the ocean are foolish, UNLESS they are willing to take personal responsibility for the consquences. Environmental concerns are real and valid. As I stated earlier. It’s not one or the other.

    • johnny2
      Post count: 135

      Actually my New Orleans reference speaks to the heart of the matter, are you willing to fight for your guns at the expense of everything else.

      Like it or not when dealing with the NRA it comes down to Dem vs Repub, thats kind of my point, it should be about gun rights, period.

      I think you are going to offend a lot of people with that last sentence. The facts are that the damage could have been much less severe had the wetlands been in their natural state. The responsibility for the loss of the wetlands doesn’t rest only on the shoulders of the residents of New Orleans

      I live in tornado alley, am I also foolish?

    • Patrick
      Member
      Post count: 1148

      This could go on forever…I’ve stated my thoughts.

    • Patrick
      Member
      Post count: 1148

      johnny2 wrote: Actually my New Orleans reference speaks to the heart of the matter, are you willing to fight for your guns at the expense of everything else.

      Like it or not when dealing with the NRA it comes down to Dem vs Repub, thats kind of my point, it should be about gun rights, period.

      I think you are going to offend a lot of people with that last sentence. The facts are that the damage could have been much less severe had the wetlands been in their natural state. The responsibility for the loss of the wetlands doesn’t rest only on the shoulders of the residents of New Orleans

      I live in tornado alley, am I also foolish?

      Ah, hell (here I go again)…
      Your NOLA reference has no bearing on the NRA pros and cons…the title of this thread, which YOU started. The NRA had nothing to do with the deterioration of the aforementioned wetlands. THAT was done by short-sighted individuals. To associate the two is a gross oversimplification:
      NRA = Repub (to you) = unrestrained/irresponsible capitalism = environmental disasters

      It’s not that simple, and THAT offends me (not really). The NRA is about gun rights. Unfortunately there are not many dems who are on board with the concept. Just a sad fact. I’m a staunch advocate of OUR Constitution, not just what you narrowly define as “gun rights”

    • johnny2
      Post count: 135

      Brother, you sure can twist some thoughts(my thoughts) together to make your point.

      Read all the posts, some of the first words I put on this post had to do with not supporting gun rights at the expense of environmental issues.

      No where did I blame The NRA for Katrina, that is completly asanine. But if you don’t think the NRA is in bed with the republicans you are dillusional.

      The NRA has strayed from its stated mission of protecting gun rights, they are a republican party fund raiser. I have a very big problem with the way republicans have handled A: environmental issues,and B: economic issues.

      Republicans are (for the most part) about unrestrained/irresponsible capitalism. Remember the “Drill here drill now!!” response to our high fuel prices. Who was preaching this message? Republicans, no doubt backed by big oil money.

      The NRA supports anyone that supports gun rights, even if that person supports bad environmental or economic practices. If my money supports the NRA and they support that candidate doesn’t that make me a defacto supporter of that candidate?

      I try to think a little past my trigger finger on these things.

      The NRA needs to quit drawing party lines. They need to educate not bully. They need to stay out of issues that don’t concern gun rights. They need to teach gun owners how to educate. And please, gun owners, if you carry a sidearm, don’t wear it to a presidential speaking carrying a sign contemplating the need to kill tyrants. It only causes more problems.

      One last thought, the fact that Ted Nugent sits on their board should speak volumes.

    • Hiram
      Post count: 484

      Eddie Eagle program, NRA police instructor and courses of instruction for Police, amongst many programs to educate the young and old, along with a nation wide Police training program in firearms. A legal defense fund and a insurance policy for it’s members. I would say that:They educate. The education programs do not project political preferences.
      The process of the Political agenda of the NRA gives a rating to all elected officials, both Democrat and Republican in a rating system to proclaim their firearms what the support. I suggest an education of what the NRA ACTUALLY IS DOING rather than speculation.:)

    • johnny2
      Post count: 135

      You say and suggest all this as an NRA member, I suggest you talk to folks that don’t own guns. Ask their opinion of the NRA. I also suggest you read something other than NRA literature. I am aware of all the programs you mentioned.

    • Hiram
      Post count: 484

      Oh yes and the reference to “Uncle Ted”. Yes he does. He is actually a very outspoken and fervent protector of the 2nd ammendment. He has his detractors reference his personality etc. I do however respect his stance reference firearms. He is a very reliable supporter hunting and firearms and I personally respect him for that. I just do not agree with everything he supports (string rifle seasons). I do however consider him a “legitimate Fellow hunter and firearms supporter” Therefore he has my respect and support. Go to his website and talk to him. Politics is the determining factor and always has been! Thats why we vote for the candidate that best resembles our agenda. To avoid Politics is to avoid your vote.

    • Hiram
      Post count: 484

      Hey John you are at the wrong site to spew your agenda! Anti Blogs would give you more of what you want to hear! Your amongst hunters, fisherman, and Bowhunters here.Troll their sites. I would also put you on notice to the fact that Dr Ashby is very much respected here!Troll the sires that represent your own agenda! Ours is Bowhunting, whats yours?:)

    • Chris Shelton
      Post count: 679

      I do understand what john is saying about how they only support republicans!? They do because they are the only ones that support our gun rights, if you find a democrate that will support my gun rights and is not afraid to “carry the big stick” as well as taking care of the big crapper we are in financially than I am all for him/her. But it just doesnt happened, you said on one post that the NRA should stick with gun rights, but then you said that they are supporting republicans that are not the greatest towards conservation, sounds to me like you want them to be a conservation group too? Make up your mind! And sure Uncle ted is a bit wack some times, and he is definatly a extremist when it comes to gun rights but he IS for gun rights, I think someone back further said this and I am going to say it again . . . UNITED WE STAND< DIVIDED WE FALL!! That is something we all need to keep in mind as HUNTERS, weather that person is a crossbower or a traditionalist, WE need to stick together because if we are fighting each other than the true enemy will be able to concor us in a heart beat. I DO NOT AGREE with the crossbow issue, it directly impacts my season, I hate having to share the early season with them, I dont care if they want to hunt with that "arrow gun" during the gun season but that is definatly NOT classified as a bow, and the department knows that, they just are using it as a managment tool, but seriously wouldnt it be easier to just extend the rifle season a week?

    • Patrick
      Member
      Post count: 1148

      johnny2 wrote: You say and suggest all this as an NRA member, I suggest you talk to folks that don’t own guns. Ask their opinion of the NRA. I also suggest you read something other than NRA literature. I am aware of all the programs you mentioned.

      You assume we only are basing our information on NRA literature. How condescending, and incredibly misinformed YOU are. Speaks VOLUMES.

      By the way, I already said I don’t own any guns, BUT I don’t count, huh?

    • Chris Shelton
      Post count: 679

      I know tons of people who dont own guns, but even they know that a unarmed country is extremely vunerable. I want to back track alittle bit as well. Someone(I believe johnny)said that there is not reason for assault rifles? I do not hunt with one myself, but the AR-15 is now being called something like a black gun with a camo heart, there has been numerous publications on how useful the firearm is for hunting. I would suppose that almost all of our hunting firearms came from the military first. Think about it, old henry lever actions, the remington 700, and now the AR-15. All were used in various military conflicts across the world. I do not think it is neccasary for a hunter to have a semi-auto though, just my opinion. I just dont see the point, it should only take one shot!

    • Hiram
      Post count: 484

      Nope, don’t buy it that Johnny just wants “to stir the pot” and talk about the issues refrence the NRA. He has already undone any Objectivity he might have in his responses. He is only interested in useing this site to perpetuate doubt and distrust amongst those who may be teetering on the issues. His refrence to the NRA and its supposedly in bed relationship with the NRA disposed any objectivity he might have. This refrence alone proclaimed his bias, and only makes him further to the left (liberal agenda) towards this bias. The NRA has historically spported any candidate which has a firm grasp upon the 2nd ammendment and its meaning which precludes any and all of the liberal agenda. I propose to stand firm beyond any political bias. In recent years the Republican party has been the most supportive of gun owners and their right to own and bare. Therefore one could conclude that the Republican Party as a whole supports gun ownership by law abideing citizens. I know several Democrats who also feel this way. I think that the Democratic Party has several Liberal types like Bobby Rush, Charles Schumer, Barbbara Feinstein and others who favor radical gun control etc. My main interest as it applies here is Archery! As I have stated in earlier posts, this is a site mainly composed of Bowhunters, and as such I believe the liberal agenda is sometimes represented by those who slip through the cracks to access and “Stir the Pot”.

    • johnny2
      Post count: 135

      Aw man you busted me, I’m a secret service agent sent to this site by the liberal leaders to divide and conquer and take your guns!!!!!:twisted: You found the mole. From the previous posts it looks like the virtual mob is gonna burn me at the virtual cyber stake.

      I never claimed to be objective, in fact I said I had problems with the NRA from the first post on.

      Yes I am tree hugger, there, I said it. I ‘m sorry I just love the oxygen they produce.

      I love it when folks try to label me, Hiram go back and read my mini bio on page two of this post. Dude my Dad was a member. I have no political agenda or party membership. It just chaps my hiney when people support so and so because the NRA backs him. And what if I was a hunter with liberal tendencies, does that mean my opinions don’t count? How arrogant and close minded can you get. So, let me get this right I can share my thoughts as long they line up with the majority? That sounds kinda…well…socialist. I thought you guys were arguing for the very freedoms you just said I neede to take to another site.

      My point is and always will be there more things to decide on than whether we should or should not have all the guns we want and if that is the main reason behind who you support, well , thats just sad.

      Assualt rifles ARE automatic rifles.

      It is a paradox, the NRA should stick to gun issues so they can’t comment on a candidates environmental ideas, etc., etc. Quite the conundrum. I don’t have an answer for this other than the party one. NRA mostly supports Repub, most Repubs bad enviro policies. There are execptions, though few.

      I never made any comment concerning DR. Ashby, that being said I will stand up to anyone for what I believe in. For all you know I might be a political science professor.

      Frankly speaking i never expect to sway anyone and I don’t give a crap what you think of me I just want everyone to think beyond what THEY want, consider all views.

      True freedom isn’t something your government gives you, it’s inside you. If someone takes my guns and bows I’ll whittle a sharp stick and throw rocks. You need to watch Braveheart. William Wallace is the man!

      You guys are hilarious. Four or five responses feeding off the anger of the previous response before I can respond. Herd mentality at it’s finest.

    • Hiram
      Post count: 484

      No! True freedom is your birth right! It was fought for and won by those who served during the era that the second ammendment provides, and now. Freedom is what I protect by being an NRA supporter! The AR-15 is a Semi auto rifle not to be confused with a M-16 which is full auto. I beleive that in the caliber options availiable in it’s variants that: It makes an excellent ergonomic hunting rifle. I also know that civilian hunting rifles evolve from our military rifles. Case in point The 03 Springfield was a version of the Mauser (98) and the US paid Mauser a patent infringement for it’s design similartitys. I am and ABSOLUTIST! I will not give up my right or that of others to own semi auto rifles. Check and you will find that you can legally own a full auto rifle. The “one shot theory” of owning a firearm does not apply to the constitution. I think that those who say we only need a single shot rifle for hunting are giving in to the “Socialist agenda” to take what we legaaly and deservedly have the right to own. Now I speack only of those who are Law abideing responsible owners according to law. Do not give up or give in to the Theory of those who would take any of guns! By the way Johnny, I am used to your attitudinal doctrine towards my rights. We just disagree vehomitely! God, Guts, and Guns made America free! along with a lot of Red American blood seeping in to foreign soil.

    • Hiram
      Post count: 484

      No Anger at all Johnny! Yes, Mel did a good job in the movie and I concurr that it was a good one. On a lighter note, I recomend Jerimiah Johnson and the Mountain Men with Charleston Heston and Brian Keith. I also recomend Valdez is coming with Burt Lancaster, and of course all the Dukes films.I have a lot of good movies in mind if such a thread presents itself. By the way I live in Arkansas too, How bout them Hogs?

    • johnny2
      Post count: 135

      Dude, you are way to far right for me. My Dad always said there are two sides to every story and the truth is usually somewhere near the middle. So far these words have proven true. You need to go back and read all the posts.

      Again I think it is a sad state of affairs when your right to own any gun you want takes precedence over any other issues.

      Lord help us consider the well being and concerns of our neighbor above our own.

    • Patrick
      Member
      Post count: 1148

      Maybe you should watch Braveheart again. He was fighting to gain their freedom! If you were there, I’m sure your priorites would shift. I don’t recall Wallace extolling the virtues of tightening emission standards for blacksmith shops.

    • Hiram
      Post count: 484

      By the way, Today is the last day of my 24th year in Law Enforcement. Yes, today I re-tire. I’m gonna Bowhunt!:D

    • Patrick
      Member
      Post count: 1148

      johnny2 wrote: Dude, you are way to far right for me. My Dad always said there are two sides to every story and the truth is usually somewhere near the middle. So far these words have proven true. You need to go back and read all the posts.

      Again I think it is a sad state of affairs when your right to own any gun you want takes precedence over any other issues.

      Lord help us consider the well being and concerns of our neighbor above our own.

      What truly puzzles me is your clear and obvious refusal to acknowledge the 2nd Amendment. What we are all saying (if I may speak for others), is the government has ABSOLUTELY NO AUTHORITY, per our Constitution, to take or regulate arms. Period. There is nothing explicit in the Constitution supporting your agenda. If we can’t get our government to ackowledge what is clearly expressed, why would you think you’ll get, and maintain what is not? Not happening.

      And please stop with the condescending remarks: “heard mentality”, etc. That’s what people with no facts to back their point of view do.

    • Hiram
      Post count: 484

      Nope, as a matter of fact: You are welcome to come and go Bowhunting with me Johnny! Open invitation as long as you do not start this topic with any of my friends during your stay. I will not even ask you to use a Trad Bow. You may hunt with a Compound. Sorry, unless your dis-abled, no Crossbows. Genuine invite, and I’ll put you in a good spot.:)

    • Patrick
      Member
      Post count: 1148

      Hiram wrote: By the way, Today is the last day of my 24th year in Law Enforcement. Yes, today I re-tire. I’m gonna Bowhunt!:D

      congrats!

    • Hiram
      Post count: 484

      Thanks Patrick! Blessings

    • johnny2
      Post count: 135

      [

      It looks to me like patrick and hiram are trying to argue my patriotism instead of the subject at hand. So do you have to be a member of the NRA to be a true American and outdoorsman?

      No thanks Hiram, I would get no satisfaction from hunting a stand someone else found. But you can hunt with me. You can even use whatever weapon you choose and you can talk about whatever you want. I might disagree but I won’t judge. And hey, it is a free country, do or say what you want

      Looking back at all of my past posts on this subject I have made no comments regarding the second amendment or the costitution. For the record, I agree with both. My problem is with the NRA tactics and yes with the herd mentality exhibited by many of it’s members to vote on a candidate based only on the recomendation of the NRA. I am all about thinking on your own. I’m all about clear, common sense thinking, thinking that isn’t clouded by fear or prejudice because someone sees things a little differently than me. I’m all about acknowledging that some things are more important than your right to own a gun. This in no way diminishes these personal rights, just prioritizes. I believe that some folks would let everything crumble around them in order to hold on to their guns. I’m not willing to do that. I think others should consider these points. Because of the freedoms provided by our country I can express these views.

    • Patrick
      Member
      Post count: 1148

      THAT is the problem. You don’t think it has anything to do with the 2nd Amendment/Constitution.

      Nobody questioned your patriotism.

    • johnny2
      Post count: 135

      Let’s clear this up once and for all. NO ONE is arguing the validity or ideas of the second amendment or the constitution. This post was started to discuss the NRA. You don’t have to be a member of the NRA to be pro gun or an American. Really, Patrick, please understand this. This post is about the ways we choose to protect these rights. I am questioning the methods and to what extent we are willing to support an organization that claims they are protecting our second amendment. Don’t try to add any more layers. I started this thread and I’m telling you now, I never intended to argue the pros and cons of the second amendment or our constitution. Open your mind a little, I think your stuck in defensive mode. This goes along with what I’m saying here, just the thought of someone questioning the beloved NRA throws folks into a defensive, paranoid state. Example: I am accused of spreading liberal idealism on this site to pull folks teetering on the edge of indecisevness. Please. Doesn’t this sound familiar to the NRA’s capaign ads during election years? This is exactly my point.

    • Hiram
      Post count: 484

      OK, so you do not agree with the way the NRA operates? OK, so join the Org of your choice, or none at all. I’m ready to go hunting!:)

    • johnny2
      Post count: 135

      Thanks hiram. Dang why didn’t I think of that!

      Most of my donations go to the Nature Conservancy.

    • Patrick
      Member
      Post count: 1148

      Lol! Now I’m close minded. I must be, otherwise I’d see things your way. The fact is, my pea-brain DOES understand your point, BUT I disagree with your premise, and if the premise is flawed, so is the rest of the argument. YOU seem to think if someone doesn’t see things your way they are close-minded, blindly following the heard, or responding from emotions (anger), and therefore not capable of logical/rational/intellectual thought. Well, the truth is people that think like you truly are a dime a dozen. Your constantly thinking others don’t see the light because they lack your superior intellect bores the hell out of me. With that said, I’m signing off.

    • Hiram
      Post count: 484

      Troll:D

    • johnny2
      Post count: 135

      I really don’t care if you see things my way or not. I’m not trying to convert people. I’m just trying to present a different angle on a very controversial subject. I know most folks that hunt see things a certain way and sometimes another view can open your way of thinking. I understand your position on our constitution and second amendment and I agree with you. I understand that somethings we hold dearly need to be protected and that we don’t live in a perfect world where you can have everything you want. That being said we have some tough problems to face and decisions to make, I am curious as to what things people are willing to compromise to support the NRA.

      Patrick, my frustration with you is that you want to turn this into a discussion of the second amendment, which I’ve stated repeatedly, is not my intent.

      As for thoughts based in anger, I can go back on this post and look at several respones fueled by anger. The strong, defensive, capitalized words are a dead giveaway. Hey man, I get angry sometimes too. Check some of my posts on the hunting show subject. It’s easy to do when you feel passion for your cause. But we all should step back take, a deep breath, and consider our brothers concerns.

      Pray tell, what is my premise?

    • Patrick
      Member
      Post count: 1148

      Your premise:
      The NRA is in bed with the Republican party, who perpetuates irresponsible capitalism, with no regard to the environmental concerns.

      Captials are SOMETIMES used to add emphasis to a word, phrase, or sentence. ESPECIALLY when I am almost always typing this stuff out via my iPhone, which doesn’t allow me to use italics or bold fonts.

    • johnny2
      Post count: 135

      Well, that is part of it. Of course I should have tempered my thoughts with the words ” speaking in general terms” because it doesn’t apply to everyone. But, looking at past track records I would say, in general terms, that is correct. Can anyone really argue that it’s not? Maybe not that they have no regard for enviro concerns but that those fall a little down their list. I’ve actually voted republican probably more than democrat, I have no political party affiliation. My thinking has changed in recent years by listening to people who have different concerns than mine.

    • Patrick
      Member
      Post count: 1148

      johnny2 wrote: Can anyone really argue that it’s not?

      You can’t be serious. We have argued that very point. The NRA backs gun rights supporters. Not Republicans, not Democrats, not capitalists, not conservations, etc, etc. Gun supporters are mostly Republicans. Right or wrong. That’s how it is. There are some Democrats that the NRA backs…those that support gun rights. I know you disagree. Let’s just agree to disagree.

    • johnny2
      Post count: 135

      Dead serious. After reading all the posts on this thread, I don’t believe this is something to agree or disagree on, just something else to think about when you send your money or step into that voting booth.

      I have a problem trusting an organization that big and that powerful especially when they are so tightly woven into our political fabric. But thats just me.

    • Patrick
      Member
      Post count: 1148

      Then I’LL agree to disagree. You can do whatever you want. You could start your own organization. You could call it the National Right To Bare Arms And Other Issues Association. Your motto could be: “Staying out of politics to keep from getting too entrenched”.

      By the way, I prefer the Gun Owners of America, NO compromise stance on gun rights.

      This is my last post on this. You get the last word 🙂

    • Chris Shelton
      Post count: 679

      Hiram wrote: By the way, Today is the last day of my 24th year in Law Enforcement. Yes, today I re-tire. I’m gonna Bowhunt!:D

      I second that congrats above!!! Really enjoy it for me, because unfortunatly I dont think I will every make it to retirement, at least not government retirement.

    • JEVANS
      Post count: 15

      Congrats and thank you for your service!

    • Chris Shelton
      Post count: 679

      [quote=johnny2)
      Most of my donations go to the Nature Conservancy.

      I think that is your problem, people need to pay attention who they give there money too, because they could have a secret agenda! I know that alot of hunters give there money to animal rights groups without knowing it, becuase the genuinly care about domestic animals. So they give money to a humane society to help stray dogs but really they are feeding the anti-hunting movement. I dont know anything about the Nature Conservacy, I am just saying make sure you are not feeding the anti-arms movement!?

    • Hiram
      Post count: 484

      Thanks fellas! Gods Grace, my wife of 35 years and Bowhunting!
      Blessings and a great hunting season!:)

    • johnny2
      Post count: 135

      Surely you don’t think I would not check out an organization I give my money to after all this blowin and goin about the NRA. 😀

      Check em out. I think you will be happy with their mission. The Arkansas office and membership are mostly hunters.

      I really don’t want to pour gas on this fire again, but I gotta ask this question. Again it’s one of my points here. Why is an organization that deals with conservation or animals questioned while the NRA isn’t, except by me? I’m encouraging everyone to be informed about anywhere you put
      your support.

      Thanks for the idea Patrick I may just start my own organization. I can do whatever I want since we live in a free country. All of them we know today were started by someone with a cause, why not.

      I started this post with the thought that this was a black or white issue, however after reading everyones thoughts I must say like most things in this world it is various shades of gray. Again, just something to think about.

    • Hiram
      Post count: 484

      Blessings John and have a GOOD SEASON!:)

    • johnny2
      Post count: 135

      Same to ya Hiram:D

    • tpbc_hunter
      Post count: 9

      the NRA does an overall good job at protecting our gun rights that are give to us in the consitution. I do wish that they would stop sending so much mail!

    • Lousyhunter
      Post count: 19

      If all of us were responsible informed citizens, who really took the time to monitor what our elected reps were doing and knew more about that than who won last week’s ball games, if most of us didn’t vote for only one party or the other because we have let ourselves be convinced that only candidates from either of the 2 major parties can win, if we voted for who we agree with on most of the issues that we think are important, thereby filling congress with multiple parties who couldn’t agree on what to do unless someone flew a plane into a building, and paralyzing their systematic takeover of each of our individual liberties, I’m thinking we wouldn’t have ever needed an NRA.

    • hawg
      Post count: 18

      results, if for no other reason, results.

      there are plenty of good second amendment groups out there. all of them interested in protecting our rights.

      but legislators are only deathly afraid of one. NRA

    • johnny2
      Post count: 135

      By golly! It’s nice to find someone that agrees with me on this tired old subject(Steve Graf’s comments on “Our rights are quietly being stripped away” in this forum). But dang it, Does he have to say it so much better than me using so many fewer words!!:D

    • Bert
      Post count: 164

      .
      Johnny2- I don’t know why I haven’t jumped on this post yet. You certainly like to stir the pot or, rather, throw the match on the tinder! I have a few comments on ‘Our rights are quietly being stripped away” also.
      This tired old subject( I thought you were refering to me!) prefers to remain a citizen, not a subject, as I’m sure, so do you with all the liberties, freedoms and responsibilities this entails.
      You wrote” I can do whatever I want since we live in a free country”- the reason we live in such a country resides in a parchment in Washington D.C. and a statue in Massachusetts. One is the U.S. Constitution( and Declaration and Bill of Rights) and the other depicts a Minuteman holding, not a stalk of arugula, but the assault rifle of his age, a rifled blackpowder flintlock with which he was well schooled as the Brits found out to their dismay. But, without our knowledge and constant, vigilant care, they’re only paper and bronze and history shows how easily they disappear into another yawning chasm of a despairing Dark Age.
      So I am a Life member of the NRA and it is a “black or white issue” with me- not that I agree with every stance they take, I’ll hold them to account and let them know when they go off on a tangent- but as the old saw goes” the enemy of my enemy is my friend” and believe me we have enemies both foreign and, unfortunately, domestic. Toynbee wrote that “civilizations do not die by homicide but by suicide”- check out Greece, Rome, Britain and what’s your opinion on our recent exalted leader’s vision for this rare experiment in all of human history?
      This country doesn’t need (or can afford) Transformation( whatever that nebulous term means to His Nebulousness)- we need and desire Restoration- of our foundations, our moral compass and vision for ourselves, future generations and a realistic approach to this world and its problems.
      And I agree with you, we need to care and restore our God-given resources- what an incredibly rich nation we inhabit!- and also use in a responsible manner so we don’t become another crappy third-world hellhole ala Haiti (et al).
      Like you, I hike, hunt, fish and backpack and try to leave nothing but footprints, take home memories and an ethical harvest but I also like hot water, electricity and the host of other creature comforts and necessities this society and age offer- that’s why it’s good to forgo them at times- whether voluntary or, as the case may be, involuntarily!
      Frankly, John, there have been evil tyrants who have caused untold misery in this world, they exist now and will exist into the foreseeable future in many different guises but at their core they all lust for power, power over all us ‘little people’. I would rather confront them with the truth in the debate of conflicting ideas and at the ballot box(hopefully full of real votes by real citizens) but, as I enter my 6th decade still somewhat sound of body and mind, the decision has come to never retreat-not one step!-and to never compromise on core beliefs aand values-not one!- so if it comes down to what we all hope and pray never occurs, I prefer to shove back with a 20round mag of 7.62×51 from my military-style semi-automatic civilian-legal rifle(except in CA and NJ) instead of a rock and/or club. Be careful in the weapon you choose and train well for the future of liberty for you and those after you rests in your hands now, we are the hope we’ve been waiting for(howinthehell did that get in here?)and the statue still stands, snow-covered in what was once a small village, looks you keenly in the eye and says,”I STOOD READY THEN; YOU STAND READY NOW!”
      God bless and keep your broadheads sharp and your mind sharper! Bert

    • johnny2
      Post count: 135

      I’m sorry, but I have a hard time wrapping my head around the idea that everything we hold near and dear is here(WOW a triple) because the NRA is here. MAN AM I TIRED OF TYPING THIS, but here goes. NO ONE ON THIS FORUM INCLUDING ME HAS EVER DENOUNCED OUR RIGHT TO OWN GUNS. That is not what we are discussing. We are discussing the idea that there is a better way to protect that right.

      And yes, as I said in my opening statements, I like to stir the pot, pour the gas, throw the coal, whatever you want to call it. Even if I say I don’t want to, I really do. Thank you for reiterating that.

    • hawg
      Post count: 18

      johnny2 wrote: We are discussing the idea that there is a better way to protect that right.

      and perhaps there is a better way. but as I stated above the NRA is more effective at it than pretty much all the others combined. so in the course of finding that “better” way don’t throw out the currently best way.

    • johnny2
      Post count: 135

      Why do you think they are “the best way”? I think most folks think this because it is the “only way” they have ever known and that it is constantly shoved down our throats, by the NRA mind you, that they ARE the only way and that without them we would be screwed. Scare tactics at their finest, or worst depending on your perspective of course.

      Again I gotta say Steve Graf absolutely nailed it. It’s a way to divert our attention from much more pressing matters.

    • Patrick
      Member
      Post count: 1148
    • johnny2
      Post count: 135

      Man, I could give you report upon report about more serious matters. Pollution, climate change(man-made or natural course, still a cause for concern), corporate greed, economic meltdown, war, exploitation of our wild places, loss of family values, violence among teens, third world poverty, poverty here, I could go on and on and on and on…. Kinda sounds like a Billy Joel song don’t it? My point is my freedom to own whatever gun I want takes a back seat to all of these. But because these rights are constantly being portrayed as hanging by a thread with the NRA as the only thing between us and the scissors that is where we throw our support and our money.

    • Patrick
      Member
      Post count: 1148

      :lol::roll: You want scare tactics? Watch this video. This is only part of the DVD (which I have), but I believe it has all of Michael Crichton’s speech:
      http://www.michaelcrichton.net/video-speeches-independent.html

      …or how about the polar bears on the brink of extinction: :roll::lol:

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fs37-Pr5SHY

      (I know…rolling my eyes so many times may cause them to stay that way)

    • bruc
      Member
      Post count: 476

      I don’t think the little clip about the Polar Bears is so much a scare tactic but harsh reality. There are major changes happening in the North and around the world. Canada and the U.S. should be leaders in this area! The current Canadian gov’t is not! I’m not a tree hugger,just concerned for the future of my grandchildren.
      P.S. I don’t know much about the NRA or constitutions!!!
      Bruce.

    • Patrick
      Member
      Post count: 1148

      BRUC wrote: I don’t think the little clip about the Polar Bears is so much a scare tactic but harsh reality.

      :lol::lol::lol::lol:
      Thanks for proving my point. Did you watch the other video? I’ll bet not.

      Here’s some food for thought:
      http://www.examiner.com/x-32936-Seminole-County-Environmental-News-Examiner~y2010m1d8-Canadas-growing-polar-bear-population-becoming-a-problem-locals-say?cid=exrss-Seminole-County-Environmental-News-Examiner
      &
      http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/christopherbooker/5664069/Polar-bear-expert-barred-by-global-warmists.html

      I don’t proclaim to have all the answers, but I get tired of all the BS people are willing to swallow whole without looking further into things. Skepticism is healthy.

      Back on target: The reason I listed those articles is to show that the NRA is not using scare tactics, because what they say HAS HAPPENED!!!!

    • Bert
      Post count: 164

      Thanks Patrick for your most excellent BS detector- mine has been beeping for a while now and the redlight and siren are just about ready to explode, culminating somewhere around Nov. 2010 I think. Too bad Michael Crichton has passed, his cogent, rational voice is missed- his comments on Rachel Carson and DDT are priceless- They just named a local elementary school here after her! AARGH!!
      Here in WA, our elected weasels(nothing against an honest killer implied) have decided to throw out-‘set aside’- an intiative that we the people voted for to require a 2/3rds majority for the raising of our taxes to a simple majority and you know exactly what they’re going to do as we’re 2.9 BILLION iou notes in debt. Never ceases to amaze(disgust) me that the Progressives always,always,always want more ‘sacrifice’,i.e. taxes from us but God forbid we should ever want to curtail and cut, as they call it, ‘essential government services’. Any comments I would make at this time would not be fit to be printed on this forum but I think you get my drift.
      So, johnny2,not only am I a Lifemember of the hated NRA but I just joined the Tea Party movement at TeaParty.org- been a sympathizer since last April 15 and decided to make it official so I could get on the White House’s dreaded ‘enemies list’! Check out the founder, Dale Robertson and view Ray Steven’s hilarious video, ‘We the People’. but most all, join- it’s free. I’ll have to make up a sign with TaxedEnoughAlready- Concrete Block Division as I think I have a better solution than throwing tea into Boston harbor as our patriots did in 1793! Not that I would ever imply violence to our elected incompentents, just the threat should, and does, have them leave yellow stains running down their legs like the curs they are. These rights and promises are embodied in our founding documents- if, we the people, are forthright and brave enough to grow a pair, get off our blessed assets and intelligently and perseveringly battle for this God-given democratic republic-c’mon, it’s for the children!
      Is the NRA the best way, the only way to defend our 2nd amendment rights-NO!
      You are, I am, Patrick is and all the others who posted because they are vitally interested in this essential ‘topic’- whether they own guns or not- that should always be an individual’s choice and not the state’s dictates.
      All the ills you listed in your last post- “My point is my freedom to own whatever gun I want takes a back seat to all of these”- are real evils(I disagree on anthropogenic(manmade) global warming) that ,#1- will never be ‘solved’ in our lifetimes and #2- have nothing to do whether you own a weapon or not, belong to the NRA or not, eat organic arugula or prefer tater tots and velveeta cheese. In fact, I think an armed and responsible citizen with a moral and ethical compass and the will to act for the benefit, not only of himself and family, state and country but the community of all humans trapped in dismal, tyrannical hellholes, would be far more effective at alleviating these societal dysfunctions than some hand-wringing utopian bitching about the ‘evils’ of plastic bags and 2nd- hand cigarette smoke while they fly to the Copenhagen Climate Conference aboard an avgas guzzling private jet surrounded by 24/7 armed security guards.
      A wise man-John Wesley of Methodist fame, I believe, stated the following- In essentials, unity; in non-essentials-liberty; in all things, charity.
      Stay warm down there in the Ozarks(pretty country!) and don’t let the copperheads bite you on the butt, johnny2!
      Best-Bert

    • johnny2
      Post count: 135

      I’m sorry, but I have a hard time wrapping my head around the idea that everything we hold near and dear is here(WOW a triple) because the NRA is here. MAN AM I TIRED OF TYPING THIS, but here goes. NO ONE ON THIS FORUM INCLUDING ME HAS EVER DENOUNCED OUR RIGHT TO OWN GUNS. That is not what we are discussing. We are discussing the idea that there is a better way to protect that right.

      I think I’ve already said this but…oh yeah there it is right above these words.

      NRA: noun; Bureaucratic organization first founded to educate gun owners and protect 2nd amendment rights. Has since become republican party fund raiser and fog machine to scare the bejezzers out of law abiding gun owners by way of paranoia towards our government officials and any one else who doesn’t see things their way. From johnny2 dictionary vol 1.

      For God has not given us a spirit of fear: but of power and of love and of a sound mind: II Timothy 1:7.

    • Bert
      Post count: 164

      Bert’s shortest post-
      The operative word is ‘sound’.
      Also, Isaiah 1:21,22,23 but Isaiah 41:10, brother!

    • johnny2
      Post count: 135

      Sorry dude, read a little closer, the operative word is fear. I don’t believe any good thing can happen when you are motivated by fear.

    • Patrick
      Member
      Post count: 1148

      johnny2 wrote: Sorry dude, read a little closer, the operative word is fear. I don’t believe any good thing can happen when you are motivated by fear.

      Merely semantics. Do you not FEAR for the environment because of those things you’ve mentioned above that you feel are more important than gun rights?

      Johnny2, did you watch/listen to the Michael Crichton video? Seriously, you should. The title is “States of Fear”.

    • johnny2
      Post count: 135

      No, I don’t fear the things I mentioned. I see them more as challenges to overcome. No problem should be met with a rash decision or panicked thinking. There is a time to act but not before all avenues have been explored. I do believe things should be prioritized.

      No, I have not watched the video. Time is something I don’t seem to have a lot of these days, it’s all I can do to keep up with the posts here. I know I’m missing some good points to argue with you so I’ll try to watch in the next few days.:D

    • Patrick
      Member
      Post count: 1148

      johnny2 wrote: No, I don’t fear the things I mentioned. I see them more as challenges to overcome. No problem should be met with a rash decision or panicked thinking. There is a time to act but not before all avenues have been explored. I do believe things should be prioritized.

      Fearing something doesn’t automatically result in panicked thinking. Again we can get into a discussion of semantics. I’d rather not.

      To go back to the origin of this thread. Tell us all what the NRA should do, and how they should do it. I like lists, so I request that you do so in list form…if you please. 😀

    • hawg
      Post count: 18

      johnny2 wrote: My point is my freedom to own whatever gun I want takes a back seat to all of these.

      mine don’t

    • hawg
      Post count: 18

      johnny2 wrote: Why do you think they are “the best way”?

      maybe I shouldn’t have said “best” but rather “most effective”, at least currently.

      and it is very simple why. I stated it earlier. legislators do not refer to virtually any of the other fine gun rights or outdoor activity organizations.

      whether praising their successes or demonizing those same successes, they mention one group, over and over and over. the NRA. I don’t necessarily bow down to every conceivable word they utter any more than I bow down to every conceivable word utterd by my religion or political party or even by employment or any other organization I associate with.

      but when donation funds are limited as they are, I want results, and right now the NRA gets them the best for me. you can join and donate to whomever, but why demonize the NRA?

    • johnny2
      Post count: 135

      hawg wrote: [quote=johnny2] My point is my freedom to own whatever gun I want takes a back seat to all of these.

      mine don’t

      That is precisely my point, when your right to own a gun comes before everything else, when your right to own a gun is the very first thing you think of when it’s time to vote, something is outta whack! The NRA is the face of this mentality! It’s a pretty juvenile attitude actually, “I want my way regardless of the consequences” is something most of us grow out of.

    • Bert
      Post count: 164

      johnny2 wrote: Sorry dude, read a little closer, the operative word is fear. I don’t believe any good thing can happen when you are motivated by fear.

      I’m not sorry,Pilgrim(invoking the Duke)- bear with me Patrick as a little semantics( the study of meaning in language) is in order and I’m not talking down to you, this is for my own edification also as I am but a 12th grade graduate- though of a different century when education was a bit more rigorous than the recent self-esteem movement.
      Grabbing my always handy American Heritage dictionary, I look up the word ‘fear’ 1a. A feeling of agitation and anxiety caused by the presence or imminence of danger b. A state marked by this feeling. 2. A feeling of disquiet or apprehension. 3. Reverence or awe, as towards a diety 4. A reason for dread or apprehension. Won’t get into the verbal aspects of ‘fear’- do I hear a groan of relief?
      So it seems, rational fear is a good thing if it is controlled i.e. it’ll save your life and those around you while irrational fear, that is, panic is obviously to be avoided at all costs. The ole’ ‘When in danger or in doubt, run in circles, scream and shout’. Thought you might find this interesting. Oh, by the way, the other book of wisdom that one should have close at hand, is of course, the Bible- let’s see ‘fear’- Proverb 1:7 states “The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge; fools despise wisdom and instruction.”
      God bless-Bert

    • Patrick
      Member
      Post count: 1148

      johnny2 wrote:
      That is precisely my point, when your right to own a gun comes before everything else, when your right to own a gun is the very first thing you think of when it’s time to vote, something is outta whack! The NRA is the face of this mentality! It’s a pretty juvenile attitude actually, “I want my way regardless of the consequences” is something most of us grow out of.

      I’m still waiting for that list Johnny2!!:D

      In the meantime, it appears to me that you’ve been saying:
      1.The NRA should stay involved ONLY in gun rights.
      2.The NRA is too single-mindedly focused on gun rights.

    • Bert
      Post count: 164

      A sharp rapier, Patrick! And a sharper wit without condemnation- Kudos! I just hate it when you quote my own words back at me- it’s just not fair! Don’t confuse me with the facts- go by my FEELINGS( which is why you’ll never win a rational arguement with your wife or mine either!).
      Bert

    • johnny2
      Post count: 135

      Oversimplification Patrick, The NRA should focus on gun rights, not getting a republican candidate into office.

      More later, I promise, more pressing personal matters at hand for me right now.

    • hawg
      Post count: 18

      johnny2 wrote:

      [quote=hawg][quote=johnny2] My point is my freedom to own whatever gun I want takes a back seat to all of these.

      mine don’t

      That is precisely my point, when your right to own a gun comes before everything else, when your right to own a gun is the very first thing you think of when it’s time to vote, something is outta whack! The NRA is the face of this mentality! It’s a pretty juvenile attitude actually, “I want my way regardless of the consequences” is something most of us grow out of.

      my post stands. you, of course, are free to toss YOUR rights away however you wish. what other rights are YOU willing to sacrifice to the Gods of political correctness?

    • johnny2
      Post count: 135

      Hawg, you really gonna say your right to own a gun is the number one issue you vote on?? Really??😯

      You really believe that is the most important issue we face? Are you really going to let everything go to hell in a handbasket as long as you get a gun??
      This thought process is exactly the thing I’m talking about! Fueled by the NRA, and why shouldn’t they fuel it. How else is Wayne LaPierre gonna bankroll his 2 or 3 million(probably undershot)salary plus perks?
      I’m not tossing rights away, you guys can’t even separate the NRA from your 2nd amendment. You think anyone opposing the NRA is anti-gun. I’m not typing it again, so read my post on up the page about how I feel on the subject of gun ownership

      If you do feel this way Hawg, man, I can’t debate you anymore. I don’t have a response for illogical thinking.

      I’m still getting my thoughts together for Patrick. I had a minor family problem I had to deal with last night so give me some time.

    • johnny2
      Post count: 135

      Bert wrote: [quote=johnny2]Sorry dude, read a little closer, the operative word is fear. I don’t believe any good thing can happen when you are motivated by fear.

      .

      Oh, by the way, the other book of wisdom that one should have close at hand, is of course, the Bible- let’s see ‘fear’- Proverb 1:7 states “The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge; fools despise wisdom and instruction.”

      Your using this fear thing waaaay out of context, fear in this context means respect and honor. I’d be careful doing that.

    • Patrick
      Member
      Post count: 1148

      johnny2 wrote: I’m not tossing rights away, you guys can’t even separate the NRA from your 2nd amendment. You think anyone opposing the NRA is anti-gun. I’m not typing it again, so read my post on up the page about how I feel on the subject of gun ownership

      We don’t think you’re anti-gun, we just think YOU have your priorites wrong. Case in point: Instead of getting the list together, you dealt with a MINOR family problem! (joking!)

      Back to being serious…for a brief moment:
      We don’t think you’re anti-gun, we just think YOU have YOUR priorites wrong. We put THE Constitution first, which just happens to include the 2nd Amendment, and for a VERY good reason. By FAR AND AWAY the most effective organization protecting the 2nd Amendment is the NRA. I’d like them to change many things. I REALLY despise the glitzy buildings, etc. By the way, LaPierre made less than a million. You shouldn’t just pull figures out of your gluteus maximus, as it doesn’t bode well for a debate.

      Have you taken my advise (from WAY back in this thread) and read http://www.stephenhalbrook.com/founders.html? Because the truth is, if you’re not willing to read it, you’ll probably never understand where we are coming from.

      ALSO, I’m not a Republican. I’m a Libertarian.

    • johnny2
      Post count: 135
    • Patrick
      Member
      Post count: 1148

      johnny2 wrote: My bad, he only makes $950,000, that we know of.

      You still want a list?:twisted:

      Yep, and I agree that’s too much, BUT you were suggesting over 3 million…that’s all I’m saying.

      Hey now, keep those horns under wraps!:lol: Sure would (like that list).

    • johnny2
      Post count: 135

      Operative phrase being that we know of.

      Still compiling list, this dang job sure gets in the way of it!

    • johnny2
      Post count: 135

      I know Patrick’s tactics are to paint me in a corner by compiling said list which would accomplish nothing other than provide more things to pick apart and look at through a microscope. And to be frank,(which I’m not, I’m still Johnny:D) I never claimed to have all the answers, far be it from me to be so arrogant as to believe I do. That goes for all of us. My purpose is to point out the goals we need to work towards.

      To say we are at an impasse would be an understatement.

      I will stand by my beliefs that gun ownership is in no danger and that other things weigh more heavily in my decisions even if they were.

      I will continue searching for a better way, as I hope you will.

      Wasn’t there post in here somewhere about ya’lls boy Nugent? One of the faces of the NRA.
      Nuff said!

    • Patrick
      Member
      Post count: 1148

      johnny2 wrote: I know Patrick’s tactics are to paint me in a corner by compiling said list which would accomplish nothing other than provide more things to pick apart and look at through a microscope.

      That’s simply not true. You’re just not making any sense to me. You are making an argument for what is bad about the NRA with two OPPOSING points of view. I wanted you to make the list so I know what in the world you want them to do, as opposed to repeating the things you don’t like about them over and over! It sure is easy to pick apart an organization. Quite another to have solutions. If voicing your opinion is going to paint you in a corner, well…

    • johnny2
      Post count: 135

      You are putting words in my mouth, I NEVER said they were to single minded on gun rights. I said they only support republican candidates, I disagree with alot of things repubs stand for and won’t base my vote on party affiliation. Be careful, don’t twist my words.

      So where are the opposing arguments?

      1. Stick to gun issues not hunting seasons
      2. Don’t demonize a candidate, simply state who you back.
      3. Get rid of Ted Nugent.
      4. Get rid of the “us vs. them” mentality.
      5. Stop the propaganda, tell the truth.(I don’t think anyone in Washington can do that).
      6. Be real(in reference to fully automatic weapons). Don’t forget that we are all part of a society, you can’t get everything you want all the time.

      I’ll have more later.

      Remember the post I put up about the second hand smoke:
      “A few years back smoking in a public building was banned in my state, the same arguement that we were losing rights was the rallying cry of the smoking crowd. The fact that my children and myself inhaled their poison and that my clothes reeked after leaving a smoke filled convenience store didn’t concern them at all. We all have to consider the thoughts and feelings of our fellow citizens. That is how a society works.”

      That is how we all come across to folks that don’t hunt or own guns. Does anyone care about that? Does anyone even give a rip about what your neighbor thinks?

      I think it was Bert who made light of the second hand smoke thing, if I’m wrong I apologize, but the blatant disregard for anyone else’s thoughts and feelings because “WAH WAH I want it MY way or we’ll fight about” drives me crazy.

      Face it guys the NRA’s only purpose nowadays is to raise money. You support the NRA, you support all republican ideas.

    • Patrick
      Member
      Post count: 1148

      johnny2 wrote: You are putting words in my mouth, I NEVER said they were to single minded on gun rights. I said they only support republican candidates, I disagree with alot of things repubs stand for and won’t base my vote on party affiliation. Be careful, don’t twist my words.

      I’m not. I said:

      Patrick wrote: In the meantime, it appears to me that you’ve been saying:
      1.The NRA should stay involved ONLY in gun rights.
      2.The NRA is too single-mindedly focused on gun rights.

      and you replied:

      johnny2 wrote: Oversimplification Patrick, The NRA should focus on gun rights, not getting a republican candidate into office.

      Notice that I wrote, “it APPEARS”! I didn’t say, “you are saying….”. I wanted you to provide the list, because it APPEARED, TO ME, as though you were saying that, and I wanted you to clarify, since I figured you couldn’t possibly hold both points of view.

      If I really thought you did hold both points of view, I wouldn’t bother debating this with you because you would truly have to be a moron (and you’re not!).

      My post at 1:30pm was simply to prod you to still make your list. :lol::twisted::lol::twisted::lol::twisted::lol:

    • hawg
      Post count: 18

      [quote=johnny2]Hawg, you really gonna say your right to own a gun is the number one issue you vote on?? Really??😯

      /quote]

      in a word “Yes”. really.

      and don’t flatter yourself, you’re making the wrong assumption that this has anything to do with the NRA scaring me,or that I’m here to dabate you or change your mind.
      you asked a question, I answered it, RESULTS. that’s what I get out of the NRA
      if you don’t like them, don’t join them.

      it’s very simple really and you can pretty much bet that most people really are single issue voters. because when it comes right down to it, no one candidate can be everything to everybody so it comes down to one or two items that are most important to you. I know you do the same thing. at some point something has to be number one. if a candidate cannot 100% support something as important as our constitution and it’s amendments then why would I believe he’ll support anything else I consider important. it’s a litmus test. and I know you do the same thing

    • johnny2
      Post count: 135

      How do you know I do the same thing? Are you super intuitive? Do you have ESP? Do you truly think you’ve gotten in my head with these few posts on this forum?

      Don’t, I repeat, don’t be so arrogant as to think you know me and my thought process as well as your own. This little forum right here in front of you should nip that idea in the bud. We both hunt and own guns and can’t even agree on the NRA.

      Please….

      What you’ve got here is the NRA in a Don Quixote situation. Fightin’ a windmill calling it a dragon. Ain’t that how that story goes?

      Thanks for giving me the option of NOT joining, I won’t.

    • Patrick
      Member
      Post count: 1148

      johnny2 wrote: How do you know I do the same thing? Are you super intuitive? Do you have ESP? Do you truly think you’ve gotten in my head with these few posts on this forum?

      from this post:

      johnny2 wrote: Look, I’m just a single issue voter because I know that my priorities are more important than those espoused by you no-nothings! My litmus test is, does the candidate hug trees? If so, he or she’s the candidate for me

      :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

    • Patrick
      Member
      Post count: 1148

      :lol::lol:I’m sorry Johnny2, but I couldn’t resist making that fake quote. YES EVERYONE, it’s fake…Johnny2 didn’t really say any of that. It’s slow at work, I’m bored, my mind wanders…:twisted:

    • johnny2
      Post count: 135

      Huh, that’s funny. Hugging trees IS one of my criteria!

      Maybe Patrick’s in my head!:D

    • hawg
      Post count: 18

      johnny2 wrote: How do you know I do the same thing? Are you super intuitive? Do you have ESP? Do you truly think you’ve gotten in my head with these few posts on this forum?

      Don’t, I repeat, don’t be so arrogant as to think you know me and my thought process as well as your own. This little forum right here in front of you should nip that idea in the bud. We both hunt and own guns and can’t even agree on the NRA.

      Please….

      What you’ve got here is the NRA in a Don Quixote situation. Fightin’ a windmill calling it a dragon. Ain’t that how that story goes?

      Thanks for giving me the option of NOT joining, I won’t.

      nope, I don’t have ESP, I say that because realistically everyone does have a single issue. tell me you don’t have SOMETHING that trumps all. sad, I guess, if you don’t

      I’ll tell you what, I won’t be so arrogant to assume to know what is in your head if you can pony up and stop being so arrogant as to assume my every move is dictated by FEAR from the NRA. fair enough?

    • johnny2
      Post count: 135

      Dude, you are trying to tell me and everybody else that you can read folks minds or that you have unprecedented understanding of the human mind.

      I am basing my thoughts on NRA literature.
      In other words, your’s is presumption, mine is in black and white. I can prove it.

      Apples and oranges.

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