Lawrence HansenMemberMarch 20, 2012 at 1:47 amPost count: 16
(admin: if two posts appear please delete the earlier one. I think I timed out and lost it.)
I am new here in posting but a “reader of some tenure. I have been shooting a 62″/50#@28″ R/D longbow and hitting the wall at 31 1/2″ Either stack or no more muscle. I purchased a69″40#@28” Wing Presentation and pulled 33″@ 54# measured.
I want to hunt. I’ll shoot 750-800+ grain wt. Understand EFOC etc. I love Hill style longbows but am open to the works especially if I stay with 33″ and want away from 68-70 in bows. Still hunting, stalking are top choices.
I like woodies. I cannnot get long shafts economically’ That’s a concern but not a deal breaker. I know added draw length adds effective draw weight to the bow.I want to shoot about 55# @ 33″. Is a bow made at 55# @33″ shooting closer to 65-70 because of the longer power stroke of the 33″ draw? If yes it will need heavier spining,etc. Or opt for a 31″ draw? Or……….?
Before I buy another bow I wish to underestand the dynamics of overdraw. I may find it easier to shoot 31″ and the bow options are far greater.
Thank you in advance. P>S> I get on line only wi-fi so blogging will be hit and miss’
skifrkMarch 20, 2012 at 3:17 pmPost count: 387
I don’t know how you measure draw length but I like to use the technique of putting my arms up at shoulder height flat against a wall and measure from fingertip to fingertip and divide by 2.5 this gives me a fairly accurate number for my draw length. If you naturally have a 33″ draw length then by all means find a bowyer who can make bow for your draw length. I know some guys who make their wood arrows from the dowels at hardware stores and those would be long enough for a 33″ draw. Alternatively you look online for info about making bamboo arrows for you can find bamboo that will work or even use carbon if neeeded.
Lawrence HansenMemberMemberMarch 20, 2012 at 6:58 pmPost count: 16
Thanks for a different way to estimate draw length. I used the yardstick between the hands and got 33″. I also pulled an Arrow Dynamics full length shaft which measured 33 1/4″ to the field point tip completely flush with the back of the shelf. Your method gets 32″ on the nose. As I mentioned I was drawing 31 1/2″ and it felt comfortable and I shot instinctively well. I am trying to determine the real value -if any- to going 33. Could I shoot say 50# at 33 and it would be like 55@32? Or 60@31? We know shooting lighter is usually more comfortable and manageable under the variety of conditions found afield. Many custom bowyers must be very busy these days and/or pestered by folks like me about these things because I have called and left voice mail inquiries about this topic (to those who I am interested in their product potentially) and how they would solve it. To a phone none have responded. Those I do get through to mostly say they can build for 33 but don’t seem to know if there is VALUE TO IT worth the inconvience of long shafting, harder dynamics in getting good FOC, spine weight etc. All things I sort of get but not complelely. Hence the call for help.
skifrkMarch 20, 2012 at 7:41 pmPost count: 387
From reading about the physics of it online you lose about 3lbs of force or 6% per pound of draw wight. here is a link to the calculations you might be interested in.
Where are you setting your anchor point matters to measuring draw length. The value of going to 33 is that you can go light but if this creates bad form for you and impacts your accuracy it can be a problem. I am no expert on FOC arrows hopefully can help answer that part. You might need to find another bowyer to work on your problem instead of the ones you called.
Stephen GrafMemberMarch 20, 2012 at 8:50 pmPost count: 2313
Draw length is defined as the length of your draw as measured from the back of the bow to the bottom of the nock at full draw.
Get somebody to help you. Draw the bow with an arrow on it. Have somebody mark the arrow at the back of the bow when you have come to full draw. Then let down and measure the arrow. This is your draw length.
Your draw length will change based on your release style, and how much weight you are pulling. I don’t believe you will be happy with anything less than a 66 inch bow (r/d style) or 68 inch (straight long bow).
find a bow that looks good to you, and then just ask the bowyer to make a bow for you. You may not have gotten many responses because these guys deal with tire kickers all the time. If you commit to a serious discussion of purchasing his bow, you will get a better response.
All you need to do is tell them your draw length (measured as previously described) and what weight you want at that length. The rest is easy peasy.
As for arrows… I would suggest you stick with carbon until you get good with whatever bow you end up with. Don’t try to challenge yourself with too much stuff too fast.
And don’t worry yourself about the “physics” of it. Whatever bowyer you settle on will guide you through arrow selection. That’s part of the perks of dealing with a custom bow maker.
newbreedarcherMarch 20, 2012 at 11:14 pmPost count: 28
I have a 32″ draw, I had a problem finding a bowyer that would build a bow to fit my specs as well. I found one heck of a bowyer, and one heck of a nice guy. Bamabows.com, Nate is more than willing to help you with measuring your draw, and deciding what bow would work best based on your ability and experience shooting traditional bows. AND, his prices are unbelievably well priced! They come with a lifetime warranty… I think that says it all my friend:D. Anyhow, that’s my shameless plug for the day:wink:. Good luck brother!
Troy BreedingMarch 21, 2012 at 12:43 pmPost count: 994
Brother don’t let anyone talk you into shooting a shorter draw than you really have. It’s been said that for every inch of draw above the average (28″) it allows you to shoot up to 5# less weight. If you have a 33″ and wish to shoot 55#@ your draw length it would mean the average shooter would need to shoot atleast 20# more weight and possibly more to equal your power stroke.
Thats one of the advantages of a long draw.
As for arrow weight? Shoot whatever total arrow weight you want. 700-800grs shot at 33″ would have no adverseri in the woods.
I’ll be shooting 800gr arrows this tournamnet season and for the upcoming hunting season. Thats only 14.5gpp at 55# of draw weight. Nothing to worry about.
As for shooting woods. If you having trouble finding shafts long enough you can always add a footing to increase the length. Since most shafts only come in 32″ length you can easily add a 5″ footing using a simple “v” splice.
Yes you will have to increase the spine to compensate for the extra length, but that would most likely only be another 10# in spine.
Check with some of the shaft makers, they may know someone that can foot on the extra length for you.
Jason WesbrockMemberMarch 21, 2012 at 8:09 pmPost count: 761
Just out of curiosity, how tall are you? I think the first thing you should do is determine your actual draw length with a bow and some arrows, as has been suggested. Until you know that the rest of this is guess work. If it turns out you do have a 33” draw length, then you have my condolences. I have a 32” draw length and am very thankful it’s not longer.
There used to be a time when you could easily get raw shafts over 32” (carbon and aluminum). I still have two dozen Easton Carbon Evolution 340s (same thing as Beman ICS Camo Hunters) that are 33” long. I’m hoarding them for now. I also have some 34” XX75 2419s too. A few years ago I found a supplier who had 36” raw fiberglass bowfishing shafts. I bought two dozen. I can’t remember the last time I saw raw carbon shafts over 32”. I’m not sure how long aluminums are anymore.
With a 32” draw length, I’m pretty much a no-go for wood arrows that require a broadhead. I still use wood shafts almost exclusively for small game since I can pull the tip into the riser. If Stu Miller’s calculator is correct, I’d need wood shafts around 100# in spine and have to foot them at least an inch to make them my main hunting arrows. Even if I had the desire to make footed arrows again, trying to find raw shafts that stiff and still weight matched is almost impossible. And even if I found some, they’d be so heavy they’d lob like slow pitched softball. If you really have a 33” draw length and want to shoot wood arrows, it’s not impossible, but get ready to pay a lot of money and/or put in a ton of work to build them.
Hopefully you’ll find out your draw length is 32” or less. That would open up a world of options for you. Once you go past 32” of draw length, things start getting a lot more difficult to find, options become more scarce, and price tags tend to go way up.
skifrkMarch 21, 2012 at 9:21 pmPost count: 387
Correct me if I am wrong but beside height it also matters where he picks as an anchor point to measure his draw length i.e. if he picks his ear lobe then he will get a longer draw length than the corner of his mouth and maybe I was misreading his request but it sounded like he was drawing to different lengths to get these results. I do think wood is doable but will need to be prepared for the price.
Jason WesbrockMemberMarch 21, 2012 at 9:31 pmPost count: 761
You are absolutely correct. Even if two people are the same height, their reaches can differ by a few inches. That will affect draw length, as will where an archer anchors. A lot of things come into play with respect to draw length, with height being only one small part (taller people tend to have longer reaches).
Troy BreedingMarch 22, 2012 at 12:55 amPost count: 994
If you do indeed have a 32″-33″ draw and want to shoot woods, there are other ways to help.
If your going to be buying a new bow, have the bowyer leave the sight window cut before center. Others will tell you that having the sight window cut to past center opens you up for a wider range of spine. With proper tuning you only need one spine.
Leaving the sight window to before center will allow you to shoot lower spine wood shafts. Then all you will have to worry with is finding long shafts or having them made longer via a footing.
Lawrence HansenMemberMemberMarch 22, 2012 at 2:01 amPost count: 16
Thanks to all who have contributed, it means a lot to me and what a wonderful site for such hobbie (Ala Aldo Leopold)
First Skifrk and Jason, yes I do draw 33 measured on the bow. I anchor under the jaw with the thumb/forefinger notch and corner of the mouth with the finger. I shoot split finger. I am 6’7″ tall. Two folks have watched my Arrow Dynamics field point (33 1/4″ knock bottom to tip) disappear behing the window from the off side on the Wing at full draw. It is 40# at 28 and 54# at 33 measured by spring scale. It is marked 40 at 28.
Second, Newbreedarcher you are right on! I did get through to Nate and he is great. He has lots of good press in the trade mags for his bows and he can help me. Thanks.
Lastly, Troy, you hit the Robinhood of my inquiry. I too have heard/read? that 5#/in accrues to the draw weight effectively by the power stroke. I may choose 50# at 33 and be effectively getting 70+# anyhow. Cool. I am 68 years young and in great health. I am re-entering the game first time in almost 50 years and excitedly so. I am aware of footing and will ultimately build my own but the available space (shop) in not currently in my reality.Again, warm thans to all, hunt well together.
Troy, you bet! I will keep the 33″:D
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