skinner biscuitMemberAugust 15, 2014 at 12:23 amPost count: 250
So I have the kme sharpener.Just got the broadhead jaws, so I was monkeying around in the garage trying to sharpen a tuffhead broadhead.I marked the edge with a black marker and started at the 25 degree Mark.I wasn’t hitting the edge so I started moving the rod up till I was all the way to the top at 30 degree and still only managed to dull the blade more.I’m sure I am being a idiot but for the life of me can’t figure out how the hell you guy’s use this contraption to sharpen your tuffheads!I thought this would be easy but I am getting frustrated at my feeble attempts.Any advise would be greatly appreciated. What rod angle do you use to get it close in the ballpark?
Doc NockAugust 15, 2014 at 12:39 amPost count: 1150
Like the man said. CALL RON!
Only thing Idiotic about your delemma is to expect to learn without going to the man who invented the thing!
His Customer SErvice is reported far and wide as the best in the land!
Suffer in silence, is being an idiot. Asking others and getting potential mis-direction…not smart… getting it from the horsese…whatever!
I give Ron a lot of Chit…but he’s the real deal.
I was president of Can’t Sharpen ShX, Int’l….but he got me thru it and only need a short annual refresher! 😯
David PetersenMemberAugust 15, 2014 at 1:23 amPost count: 2749
If I recall, I have been busted on this view by Ron himself. But as one who has owned and used both the KME broadhead and knife sharpeners, I find the “knife” sharpener far easier and more effective for single-bevels, and the broadhead sharpener best for double-bevel heads. But I have been told I am odd, so who knows. In any event talking with Ron is always informative and fun. Just don’t plan to be done in 5 minutes. 😀 Guys like Ron and Joe of Tuffhead/Vintage and Greg Coffey of Java Man Bows and many more in the trad world–guys who love their work as a craftsman loves his craft, and love their customers like friends or family–offer a welcome antidote to the evils of modern capitalism and industry and take us happily back to when pride in your work, not greed for profit, drove American craftsmanship.
Vintage ArcherMemberAugust 15, 2014 at 2:10 amPost count: 276
skinner biscuit wrote: So I have the kme sharpener.Just got the broadhead jaws, so I was monkeying around in the garage trying to sharpen a tuffhead broadhead.I marked the edge with a black marker and started at the 25 degree Mark.I wasn’t hitting the edge so I started moving the rod up till I was all the way to the top at 30 degree and still only managed to dull the blade more.I’m sure I am being a idiot but for the life of me can’t figure out how the hell you guy’s use this contraption to sharpen your tuffheads!I thought this would be easy but I am getting frustrated at my feeble attempts.Any advise would be greatly appreciated. What rod angle do you use to get it close in the ballpark?
SKINNER IGNORE THE ANGLE SETTINGS ON THE KME.
Secure the broadhead in the clamp Lay the stone flat on the bevel which is 25 degrees (guaranteed) ignoring the angle reading on the sharpener..Check for light under the stone so you know it is flat secure the sharpening arm regardless of reading the should set the sharpener for the correct bevel. Ron Swartz expelling why in this letter below.
In a recent discussion on proper sharpening angles and use of the KME system, one of our most experienced friends questioned …
“Just now I touched up my 6 Tuffheads for the hunt, using my KME knife sharpener. According to the scale on the sharpener it was set at 25 degrees. But in order to get the stone to lie precisely parallel to the bevel on the heads I had to raise it up to one mark below 30 degrees – 28 or 29 I reckon. So is the scale off on the jig, or the bevel in fact greater than 25 degrees, or something else I’m missing here? Just curious. In any event those heads are sharp and one has already drawn blood, my own.”
A quick response from Rom Schwartz at KME explins the details…
“Figured I’d share this drawing to help explain why Dave needs to set the shapener to 29 degrees in order to match a 25 degree bevel.
The angle scales on all clamp-on sharpening systems are relative, not absolute. This is because there are multiple factors that influence the actual sharpening angle.
We can adjust the angle by raising/lowering the bearing guide but the distance the blade extends out in front of the clamp has just as great an influence on the angle too.
This is just basic geometry and there’s no escaping it.
The best way to match an existing bevel is to color the bevel with a permanent marker, eyeball the angle as best as we can, then take just a few strokes with a dry stone to see where the ink is being removed. If the ink is being taken from the shoulder of the bevel but not from the cutting edge, that means the angle is set too low. If we’re removing ink from the cutting edge but not from the shoulder, that means the angle is set too high. Micro adjust till the ink is being removed from the whole bevel and you have found the correct setting for that particular knife or BHD. Note: it’s preferable to have the angle set a bit too high than it is to have it set a bit too low. This way we’re certain that the stone is contacting the actual cutting edge.
Dave when sharpening Grizzly El Grandes with the knife sharpener, I find that I need to set the sharpener at 27 degrees even though I know that the factory bevel is ground at 25 degrees. The angle scale may indicate that I’m sharpening the Grizz at 27 degrees but in fact it’s actually sharpening at the same 25 as my original “factory” grind.
Sorry for the poor quality of the sketch but I think you’ll see what I’m talking about. Thanks, Ron
SORRY I COULD NOT GET THE DRAWING TO POST HOPE THE EXPLANATION IS ENOUGH
I am sure this will cure the problem but if not contact me and I will get Ron to walk you through it.
Doc NockAugust 15, 2014 at 2:32 amPost count: 1150
YOu guys are great! Fun to read and helpful too.
Ron has explained all that to me oh…at least half dozen times, but I didn’t apply it to your quandry like our friend at Tuff Head!
Wide knife blades cause the same type issues where a skinny li’l one doesn’t!
The other thing that I had to have driven into my skull was to NOT quit sharpening with the coarsest stone till I got a burr! I wanted to quit and move to a smoother stone when I got tired…
Ron’s stones have improved. Ron’s got new jaws…all sorts of goodies!
Hard to imagine that kit could need/find improvements, but I was wrong!
THAT…that never happened before!:roll::D
David PetersenMemberAugust 18, 2014 at 11:22 pmPost count: 2749
Well, then. It would seem that since angle scales on sharpeners are approximate at best, and continually confuse users, we’d all be better off to quit even putting inaccurate scales on sharpeners and simply instruct users to match the angle of the sharpener to the bevel of the object to be sharpened. As Julia Child’s often said, a scale that’s off ain’t no scale atall. But then she was drinking wine and I’m on my second beer after a fruitful day of firewood cutting.
More seriously, while the beveled edges of a double-bevel are so darn thin–almost invisible on thin-blade heads–it could be challenging to match the sharpener to the bevel. But all quality single-bevels have thick steel and an obvious shelf angle that’s super easy to use as a gauge to set the sharpener angle. And even easier if we follow Ron’s advice to coat the bevel shelf with ink in order to detect precisely the angle of attack of the sharpener.
This hunting-prep stage is SO much easier than actual hunting, no wonder we always get excited about it. 😀
Doc NockAugust 19, 2014 at 1:33 amPost count: 1150
I think I need a good work out followed by a couple cold ones to figure out what you typed and I read…:lol::roll:
I couldn’t sharpen ShiX till I got both the KME BH and the knife sharpener.
I don’t think the point is that the “scale” isn’t a scale, but that an angle is only an EXACT angle when the exact angle is achieved…HOw bout dat!? 😯
If a blade is wide, the angle changes. If it’s narrow, it changes again.
So that by blackening the edge (bevel be it double or single) you find the EXACT angle for THAT head… and then mark your scale gizmo accordingly! Bada bing!
You are making the Scale EXACT for YOUR broad head
Bruce SmithhammerAugust 29, 2014 at 2:40 pmPost count: 2514
Doc Nock wrote:
You are making the Scale EXACT for YOUR broad head
Exactly. Doesn’t really matter to me if the scale angle is slightly different on someone else’s KME than my own, since I only use my own, and for that, it’s a useful reference. But it’s also essential that I place the broadhead at the same point in the clamp every time (this is why there are little reference lines on the top of the clamp). Otherwise, as noted, the desired angle changes. The “Sharpie” method is a good way to go for any kind of sharpening – seeing the marker evenly removed from the bevel is about as ‘foolproof’ as it gets.
And as Ron mentioned, I find that the 27º setting on my KME is perfect for my 25º single bevels.
Though I have both (thanks again, Ron!) I favor using the knife sharpener for my broadheads as well.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.