High FOC Vs. Speed

[jpcarlson]

#6682

Hey guys, I have been shooting UEFOC arrows since last summer and love them. Easton Axis Nanos at about 31″ long, 300gr tuffheads, 125gr steel inserts, 75 gr brass hidden inserts. Total head weight 500 grs. Total arrow weight around 800grs. FOC around 32-34%. I’m shooting an early 70’s Bear take down recurve at about 54#.

My question is not whether or not these arrows are superior in trajectory and penetration, but how long it takes them to reach their targets.

Out her in Western SD I chase white tails and speed goats. I am wondering if the lack of speed in reaching the target is going to be an issue on these spooky critters. I’m mostly concerned about this factor for upcoming antelope season. They are so wary and spooky and very quick to leave where they were standing/laying if they hear anything! The bow is real quiet. I have not chronographed this arrow setup yet to see what it doing. Looking for feedback.

Jans

[DaveSea]

#53731

You could run the numbers through Stu Millers calculator. I did a quick look and came up with a 30 f/s difference in speed. See attached images.

jpcarlson wrote: Hey guys, I have been shooting UEFOC arrows since last summer and love them. Easton Axis Nanos at about 31″ long, 300gr tuffheads, 125gr steel inserts, 75 gr brass hidden inserts. Total head weight 500 grs. Total arrow weight around 800grs. FOC around 32-34%. I’m shooting an early 70’s Bear take down recurve at about 54#.

My question is not whether or not these arrows are superior in trajectory and penetration, but how long it takes them to reach their targets.

Out her in Western SD I chase white tails and speed goats. I am wondering if the lack of speed in reaching the target is going to be an issue on these spooky critters. I’m mostly concerned about this factor for upcoming antelope season. They are so wary and spooky and very quick to leave where they were standing/laying if they hear anything! The bow is real quiet. I have not chronographed this arrow setup yet to see what it doing. Looking for feedback.

Jans

[DaveSea]

#53737

Here is the high FOC calcs.

[David Petersen]

#53847

I think you have a superb setup for elk, moose, big bears, etc., but you’re over-arrowed for those little guys. I would consider dropping back to around 650 total weight, as much as possible up front. A real easy fix, or starting point, is to drop to a 225 TH or a 190 Meathead and reduce the weight of the screw-in adapter while you’re at it. I think you can get steel adapters down to at least 75 if not less. While there is no such thing as overkill with arrows, as Ed likes to remind us, there is such a thing as over-arrowing for smaller big game when it unnecessarily slows you down to the point you may miss shots due to jumpy speedy critters. On the other hand, I tried reducing arrow weight for the little AZ Coues whitetails and practiced with the lighter arrows all summer. Yet when the shot ops came I consistently shot over. So I reverted to one bow and one arrow for everything, since I don’t seem at all adaptable. But others are so it’s a personal thing.

[Troy Breeding]

#54383

I’ll take quiet over speed any day. Reaction times for speed goats can best the fastest bows on the market.

If they don’t hear anything that will cause reactions your chances of “bringing home the bacon” is in your favor.

Troy

[Bruce Smithhammer]

#54520

Troy Breeding wrote: I’ll take quiet over speed any day. Reaction times for speed goats can best the fastest bows on the market.

Exactly. Being concerned about whether a minor difference in speed is going be the “make or break” on whether an animal has time to move out of the way or not, is a mighty slim margin for error. A deer or speed goat can move fast enough that the difference between 165fps and 190fps is irrelevant, imo, because both animals can move much, much faster than that if they want to. I would instead try to address the other factor/s that would possibly make them move in the first place, between releasing the string and the arrow arriving – primarily noise.

[jpcarlson]

#55193

All very good advice gentelmen, thank you! Dave, I have thought of doing exaclty what you were recommending; lowering my head weight with the 225s or the 190 meat heads. I will have to crunch some numbers to see what I need to do to keep the most weight up front and end up around 650grs. I do love how my heavy hitters shoot though:) They fly so darn well, quiet, and dive deep in/through the target:) I might just keep shooting them as I have shot this setup a lot and trust it. Maybe changing my quiver would help? I have an old Bear quiver mounted on the bow. The darn thing is all metal and makes a bit of noise. I have a limb bolt mounted Selway quiver on one of my bows and love it, but would need a limb slip on quiver for my Bear. Does anyone have experience with those?

J

[Vintage Archer]

#56007

I would agree that the difference in speed is not going to be as importance as the quietness of the arrow. J you did not mention your feather set up. A low profile feather would go a long way in quieting the arrow like the A&A or similar style.

You did talk about feathers in another post on fletching but I don’t believe you said what you had decided on.

Speed Goats are fun to hunt .Good luck You have a good set up that should bolster your confidence.:D

[Vintage Archer]

#56014

jpcarlson wrote: All very good advice gentelmen, thank you! Dave, I have thought of doing exaclty what you were recommending; lowering my head weight with the 225s or the 190 meat heads. I will have to crunch some numbers to see what I need to do to keep the most weight up front and end up around 650grs. I do love how my heavy hitters shoot though:) They fly so darn well, quiet, and dive deep in/through the target:) I might just keep shooting them as I have shot this setup a lot and trust it. Maybe changing my quiver would help? I is all metal and makes a bit of noise. I have a limb bolt have an old Bear quiver mounted on the bow. The darn thing is all metal and makes a bit of noise. I have a limb bolt mounted Selway quiver on one of my bows and love it, but would need a limb slip on quiver for my Bear. Does anyone have experience with those?

J

Every one has their preference on quivers I took the quiver off my bow long time ago . If it was not the quiver it was the arrows or feathers making enough noise that it bothered me.I was sure if it bothered me, it could be detected by the animal. May be that was why the animals were ducking ,spinning and running before the arrow got there:lol:

[jpcarlson]

#56252

Joe,

My fletching setup on my arrows is a four fletch with 2.5″x.5″ feathers plus a turbulator 1/4″ in front. They work great and the arrows seem pretty darn quiet, as does the bow. I have beaver strip silencers on the string. I think a rubber mounted slip on bow quiver would be quieter than the old aluminum vintage Bear quiver I have on the bow. I like the bow mounted quivers as I have always used them, but I will try taking it off to see how I like it and how things shoot. It may be a whole like more quiet:)

Thanks for the input,

Jans

[Ed Ashby]

#56669

I would refer you to the Papau New Guinea Bows and Arrows article, in the Ashby Library:

https://www.tradbow.com/members/310.cfm

The Rusa deer live on the bald, open plains. They are hard-hunted by the natives and are very skittish. The one shown in the article was taken at about 25 yards with a 3953 grain arrow, traveling at, what I certain, was no more than 100 fps!

No arrow is fast enough to overcome the animal’s reaction time. I go for a quiet setup every time and, like Dave, I prefer to shoot the same setup for all hunting.

Ed

[Etter1]

#56971

It seems to me that it would be very hard to shoot an arrow that heavy, very accurately.

For me, it would be, anyway.

[Vintage Archer]

#57166

Etter1 wrote: It seems to me that it would be very hard to shoot an arrow that heavy, very accurately.

For me, it would be, anyway.

Etter You should check out Dr.Ashby’s studies.In particular interest would be High FOC arrows.There are also videos by Dr Ed that shows the benefits of FOC arrows. You can find these at

http://www.tuffhead.com/education/education_main.html

EFOC could open a whole new archery experience. There is not as much drop in a heavy EFOC arrow as most think . Ed demonstrates this very well.

Both Ed and David P address the fact if you shoot the same bow and arrow set up instead of changing back and forth your brain compensates for shooting heavier arrows accurately ( assuming one shoots instinctively).

[Col Mike]

#61755

Old shoulder injury has kept me from using the 50# Elkhart too for a couple of weeks–broke out the 35# grizzly recurve– Easton trad 600-30″ 50gr insert, arrow weight 260 then I added a 300gr field point total weight 560 and 27% EFOC. First shot at 20 yds 5″ low then the ole neuron computer kicked in and next were on the mark. They flew like a slow sabot and penetrated 5″ more then the same arrow with a 200gr point.

Dr. Ed’s work is right on. Tomorrow I get to try the carbon express with the 225 tuffhead–total weight 748gr and 25% EFOC–of course that will be with Elkheart too 😀

Semper Fi

Mike

[Author]

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