Steve Sr.July 3, 2011 at 2:35 pmPost count: 344
Allow me to copy and paste my reply to a gentleman whom, due to physical issues, is “forced” to shoot a lighter (45 lb) bow and had questions as to arrow weight.
Sorry ………….SOAPBOX TIME!!! 😆
“quote “At 45#’s heavy arrows will be difficult to shoot at any distant due to significant drop.” unquote
Devil’s advocate here.
Kinda depends on what “any distance” means to the bowhunter as well.
Turn back the pages of time a few decades and your “low poundage” bow would be at least the “norm” as still is for many old timers.
Why? Becuase they work at what most of us consider normal bowhunting ranges and generally we shoot them more accurately.
IMHO, the BIGGEST mistake a new trad archer, wheelie converts especially, make is too much bow.
Bow weight and draw length have been, again IMHO is a result of the wheelie genertion for the most part, heralded as something some feel they must have and I have sat by and watched archers draw WAY past what once was a normal anchor with bows at least 10 lbs more then they SHOULD shoot (going by the difficulty they had and poor groups).
A great many of them quit and went back to wheel bows.
I’m six foot and have drawn 28 inches for the entirety of my adult life (age 58 )and one only has to look at collectable arrows to see that this length was pretty common.
Weigh a spine appropriate fiberglass arrow with standardly used heads from the past and recall that these WORKED for literally hundreds of thousands of hunters, yours truly included as well as literally every single one of my local buds.
I know, the younger generation will poo poo the thoughts and contemplations of us of LONG time bowhunting……yet answer me this.
Why……when the past has shown us over and over and over again, that something worked, worked very well, and the majority of hunters used them 30-40 years ago taking uncountable numbers of big game….WHY is it that they are “now” minimal?
WHAT SINGLE FACTOR of that equation has changed?
We have better arrow componants, even more efficient bows yet somehow??? the weights of yesteryear are labeled “borderline”.
When “wondering what will or wont work” does not the recorded in many ways history of literally millions of game taken in the past not have credibility?
Am I putting DOWN the “bigger and faster is better” philosophy? Oh heck no. More is more yet let me say this.
“NORMAL” bowhunting ranges for most trad shooters is UNDER (mostly considerably under) 25 yards.
It will certainly WORK at longer ranges but the eye to eye, one on one confrontation is a great part of our sport, and at least to me, a good part of what bowhunting is all about, sans even the equipment we all love and share.
I’ve a new to me, 46lb longbow, same age as I that I have been blessed to find and purchase.
There does NOT EXIST a deer in the world that this bow will not CLEANLY take at ranges WAY beyond my capabilites…….and I will say I’m as good a long range bow shot as any I know locally (but hate saying so) but PREFER 20 and under shots.
Trajectory? What trajectory? I have said this many times and will many times more, probably just as fruitlessly, that if you shoot the same weight arrows for any length of time at various unknown ranges, trajectory is COMPLETELY moot. IGNORE IT.
Proof in said pudding is that I shoot 600+ grain arrows, some pushing 700 grains out of 42, 43 and will the above 46lber as well.
Slow? Probably. Trajectory? Probably a lot. Do I notice or “compensate” for such? Uhhh, no. Work? oh yes my friends IN SPADES.
Do I think YOU need to shoot such heavy arrows? Nope, stictly my preference and is such from seeing what truly heavy arrows give ME which is penetration even when many will tell me that “no it wont”. Been there, done that. Enough said.
A decent head, a sharp one, on arrows far lighter than I WOULD SHOOT will “work” placed specifically FOR light weight arrows.
Pick the arrow weight YOU FEEL WILL WORK without much in the way of limitations and shoot them. A lot….at unknown distances. You will amaze, even yourself.
You will find them equally accurate given time practicing, at any range you choose to take hunting shots.
The old saying goes that it’s a moot point what your arrow will do….if you cant hit the game animal properly. We all know this to be fact.
Just dont “decide” you cant shoot what you feel is a proper or as you said a weight that “will increase penetration” before giving them equal “air time”.
Time and time again, IT SEEMS TO ME AND PERHAPS ONLY TO ME, (no offense intended) that those joining our ranks with a history of compound shooting try to take what they left and make trad archery INTO something similar with the same “trains of thought”.
Dont. You will not only fail, you will miss a great, great part of traditional bowhunting (simplicity!!) and frustrate yourself to your wit’s end.
Decades ago, we walked into the local hardware/archery store and bought one of the many 45lb bows on display, grabbed arrows dubbed by the mfg to be spined for that weight and went hunting.
AMAZINGLY…..deer kept falling to our set ups year after year and often (guilty myself of doing too much calculating!!) wonder if that time was not,indeed, the peak of my traditional bowhunting life.
Well, my INTENTIONS were good here. Hopefully not taken in any other way.
(shoot what you KNOW will work……all the time. CONFIDENCE KILLS!)
David PetersenMemberJuly 3, 2011 at 3:38 pmPost count: 2749
Steve Sr., I too am a heavy arrow fan, having proven to myself in the field what 700+ grains with a good two-blade head and shot from a low- to mid-50s will do to an elk … and also proving to myself what a “light” arrow, 500 to 550 grains, with a three-blade head won’t do to an elk when shot from a mid-60s bow. Exceptions to every rule, but my own general rule of thumb is the lighter the bow, the heavier the arrow. So you have to get a bit closer … cool! More closer = more challenge, more satisfaction, more fun and more meat. IMHO dp
Steve Sr.July 3, 2011 at 3:45 pmPost count: 344
David Petersen wrote: but my own general rule of thumb is the lighter the bow, the heavier the arrow. IMHO dp
Excellent and so easy to understand!! Yet ……I have found little success in explaining something so simple and so obvious to ….SO MANY.
I still “blame” the ” gotta have that SPEEEEEEEEEEEED!!” BS that is pounded into heads from so many angles.
and that is what it is too……(sorry)
PURE UNADULTERATED MALE COW FECES! 😯
David CoulterMemberJuly 4, 2011 at 1:12 amPost count: 2261
Good stuff. Thanks for your thoughts.
I’m shooting a longbow the same weight as yours, but my arrows are weighing in at about 530. Aluminum 2016s with head/adapter/insert combination at about 200 grains.
What are you using to get in the 700 range? By the way, I’m not in elk country, big game for me is a whitetail.
Steve Sr.July 4, 2011 at 1:38 amPost count: 344
My hunting arrows are 9/32-5/16 Ramin and a few Sweetland Forgewoods (I need more of these!) and Tonkin Cane.
I “mis-remembered” on the tonkin earlier………dang old age anyway. The finished arrow (29 inches) sans head is around 425-440 grains so some of the bigger heads shove them right up in the 600s.
The Ramin and Sweetlands weigh 495-515 grains, BARE shaft.:shock:
Finish, fletch, nock and throw a 200 grain head on them and I’m over 700 grains but allows me to shoot 150-185 grain heads and hit the high 600s pretty easy yet will have a slightly lower FOC (none are really HIGH, 17-18 percent or close)
One thing I did pick up was a few Sweetland “head shrinkers” that were machined for the purpose of putting over a skinny shaft head taper to fit “normal” 11/32 broadhead ferrels. They add another 13-15 grains unless I get sloppy with the hot melt!
Ive also got some old Herters Farbenglass with the big two blade Herters made that weigh in at 660-680 grains, but are certainly larger diameter (but they did and still do work…lol).
For giggles, it will be curious to see how the Tonkin, being naturally full length tapered and having a slightly higher FOC, compare to the others that are parallel shafts, yet very small diameter and some heavier.
Odds are, for deer? I wont be good enough to tell much difference. All are ” god’s plenty” IMHO.
David CoulterMemberJuly 4, 2011 at 1:45 amPost count: 2261
Thanks for the details. I’ll have to look up some of these to see exactly what you are referring to. I’m only back at this for the past three years. I went from wood to aluminum for consistency and ended up with a nice bunch from guys switching to carbon. Talk about finding enough consistent shafts out of a bunch of wood steered me away for budget reasons.
Steve Sr.July 4, 2011 at 1:51 amPost count: 344
Yep, woodies and other naturals can be a pain in the tuchus and prices are not what they used to be.
Carbon and aluminum are just easier to make and easier to control the end product. You WILL have a higher FOC on the correct carbon ones if that is of interest.
Nothing wrong with them. I just feel a bit “alien” shooting them out of my chosen “old time” equipment.
Want to see something that will raise a few eyebrows?
One of these ace heads on one of these skinny shafts…kinda reminds me of some pygmy spear Elmer Fudd was dodging in one of the cartoons. 😆
A Goshawk on them is :shock::shock::shock: !
Bounty HunterJuly 4, 2011 at 12:32 pmPost count: 149
My 46# longbow and arrows in the 600-625 range get the job done on deer and hogs. Hogs can be tough, but with the heavy arrow and good single bevel two blade heades even the shoulder blade isn’t a problem on eating size hogs. 😀
I know for a fact you don’t have to shoot heavy weight bows to make good clean kills. Good luck to you sir!
Steve Sr.August 2, 2011 at 11:13 amPost count: 344
Isnt done yet……..I cant find my “yaller” bling bling (reflective tape) so I dont lose this puppy……or at least make it LESS likely?
Sweetland 5/16 shaft
For now my “small” Goshawk head, 175 grains
REAL barred (thank you very much) yellow feathers chopped with a 3R Swift chopper.
Total weight 688.4 grains, measley FOC of 15.
wildschweinAugust 2, 2011 at 2:35 pmPost count: 581
Steve Sr. I love your posts (or perhaps they should be called speeches). Always something to make you think. But I gotta ask one question. How do you type all that before the forum logs you out due to inactivity? Your fingers must be like greased lightning.
Steve Sr.August 2, 2011 at 3:09 pmPost count: 344
YOU GUYS ARE GIVING ME A COMPLEX!!!! 😯
Actually…..if you notice, almost ALL my posts are “edited…..then edited again…….and again”.
Fast fingers……..slow brain cells?
Hey Admin! In your articles for TBM (once you get accepted for return articles)…..do you pay by the word? 😛
If I typed EVERYTHING I think……ya’ll would ignore me COMPLETELY!!
Thanks for the kind words.
Steve Sr.August 2, 2011 at 3:26 pmPost count: 344
“I know for a fact you don’t have to shoot heavy weight bows to make good clean kills”
Yep, Bounty Hunter (sorry I missed your post till now) that is the “gospel” truth!
IMHO, as I said, I think the introduction and use of compounds created an entirely different mindset than what had existed for generations. Advertising is the main thing I will point my finger at.
Shooting as much bow as one can is always great advice. The monkey in the works THERE is, from what I have witnessed, a great many will “settle” for less than what they are capable of shooting because they FEEL they “can” shoot a heavy bow…..but obviously not as well.
A good rule of thumb to follow, and this one I did not follow myself for many years, is shoot the heaviest bow you can ACCURATELY (as well as lighter bows for the most part) shoot.
Arrow placement is one of the top of the heap factors, as most know, for a good clean kill. Gut shot is gut shot and no bow weight, broadhead or arrow component combination will “fix” that one.
Things can go wrong all by themselves. I don’t personally need to “help it along” with a bow weight beyond what I can shoot very accurately……THE FIRST SHOT (with heart in my throat…..not breathing…..shaking like a dog passing razor blades… 😯 )
Robin ConradsAdminAugust 2, 2011 at 11:56 pmPost count: 907
Steve Sr.: We don’t pay by the word, but keep ’em coming. Between you and Doc everyone is getting their fill of reading. 😆
wildschwein: I have long ago suggested that long posts and replies be typed in a Word or text document, then cut and pasted it into the forum post. I know that dang “inactivity” stuff is frustrating. 😈 I wish I could change it, but this is what we have to work with. 🙄
wildschweinAugust 3, 2011 at 2:30 amPost count: 581
Now that is a good idea. And of course it was sitting there right in front of my nose. But its going to be a while yet before I make any posts to rival Steve Sr or Dr Ashby in length. Don’t think there are that many things sitting in my noggin at any one time:(.
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