EFOC

[Ireland]

#3498

I’m very new to the extreme front of center quest. Does any company make steel adapters heavier than 125 grains or brass inserts heavier than 100 grains? Using heavier adapters or inserts would seem the easiest way to increase FOC. Anyone know of a company selling the above items?

I’m at around 25% FOC at the present and wishing to get in the 30% ball park.

Thanks for your assistance…

[David Petersen]

#20815

Ireland — what are you hunting? Unless European boars or elk and up, you are in Fat City with 25% foc and I would not worry more about that. If you’re going for big-big game, you should have 650 grains total arrow weight as a minimum — that is the starting point according to Dr. Ashby’s lifetime research, even before EFoC. Give me 650 grains + and 25% FoC, a bow that will send it out there at around 150 fps or better, a solidly built single-bevel two blade and perfect arrow flight and I’ll go after anything in N. America with absolute confidence. I believe the Major Misunderstanding among those who criticize “all this extra work” as unnecessary bother, is lack of extensive experience beyond the arena of deer and feral pigs. My 2 scents, dp

[Ed Ashby]

#23900

Ireland wrote: Does any company make steel adapters heavier than 125 grains or brass inserts heavier than 100 grains?

Here’s a link to a thread that has the links that take you to a website for heavier, steel inserts.

https://www.tradbow.com/members/cfmbb/messages.cfm?threadid=85901E0D-1422-1DE9-ED2018C61D4B27EA

Ed

[Ireland]

#24198

Dr. Ed Ashby wrote: [quote=Ireland]Does any company make steel adapters heavier than 125 grains or brass inserts heavier than 100 grains?

Here’s a link to a thread that has the links that take you to a website for heavier, steel inserts.

https://www.tradbow.com/members/cfmbb/messages.cfm?threadid=85901E0D-1422-1DE9-ED2018C61D4B27EA

Ed

Thank you so much Dr. Ashby. I appreciate your time and efforts in responding to my questions. I have checked out the link and the product looks very promising. Thanks again for your assistance. Best of luck in your recovery!!!

Ireland

[George D. Stout]

#25075

Remember as you play with EFOC, there will be point of diminishing returns…..I don’t know what that may be for you, but is important that you pay attention to it. I’m with David P. on this one.

[Ed Ashby]

#25431

I not yet sure that there is a point of diminishing returns with EFOC/Ultra-EFOC. Remember that going up in FOC does not always mean going up in arrow weight. As I’ve moved the testing into EFOC/Ultra-EFOC I’ve been able to progressively reduce total arrow mass (on buffalo) while simultaneously maintaining or improving on the penetration demonstrated by substantually heavier, perfectly tuned arrows having the same broadhead, but having normal and/or high FOC.

So far I’ve only been able to test FOC up to the 32% level, but it appears that every benefit of FOC only gets better as the FOC gets higher: Flight gets more stable, less fletching area is required to stabalize the broadhead in flight, paradox recovery gets faster, and the rate of gain in soft tissue penetration, per each percent of FOC increase, gets gereater the higher the arrow’s FOC. (There will be more data coming in the next Update on the degree of progressive rate of penetration gain as FOC get higher.)

As Dave correctly points out, the degree of FOC has no effect on the heavy bone threshold. For breaking heavy bone it’s important to keep the arrow’s mass at or above 650 grains, and that’s assuming you have the other factors in place; TOTAL arrow integrity, perfectly tuned arrow flight and a broadhead with a Mechanical Advantage of 2.6 or more (and “broadhead ratio”, as some use the term, does not always mean same as the MA – don’t confuse the two. There are some popular broadheads being referred to as “3 to 1 ratio” broadheads that have a MA well below 2.0!).

Ed

[Ireland]

#26405

Dr. Ed Ashby wrote: I not yet sure that there is a point of diminishing returns with EFOC/Ultra-EFOC. Remember that going up in FOC does not always mean going up in arrow weight. As I’ve moved the testing into EFOC/Ultra-EFOC I’ve been able to progressively reduce total arrow mass (on buffalo) while simultaneously maintaining or improving on the penetration demonstrated by substantually heavier, perfectly tuned arrows having the same broadhead, but having normal and/or high FOC.

So far I’ve only been able to test FOC up to the 32% level, but it appears that every benefit of FOC only gets better as the FOC gets higher: Flight gets more stable, less fletching area is required to stabalize the broadhead in flight, paradox recovery gets faster, and the rate of gain in soft tissue penetration, per each percent of FOC increase, gets gereater the higher the arrow’s FOC. (There will be more data coming in the next Update on the degree of progressive rate of penetration gain as FOC get higher.)

As Dave correctly points out, the degree of FOC has no effect on the heavy bone threshold. For breaking heavy bone it’s important to keep the arrow’s mass at or above 650 grains, and that’s assuming you have the other factors in place; TOTAL arrow integrity, perfectly tuned arrow flight and a broadhead with a Mechanical Advantage of 2.6 or more (and “broadhead ratio”, as some use the term, does not always mean same as the MA – don’t confuse the two. There are some popular broadheads being referred to as “3 to 1 ratio” broadheads that have a MA well below 2.0!).

Ed

Thank you Dr. Ashby for your very informative response. Your reply is an outstanding summary of the real world benefits of Ultra-EFOC. Thank you for the years of research that produced the data for the studies that we all can truly use to our advantage.

Ireland

[Ed Ashby]

#26542

My pleasure, Ireland.

Ed

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