Home Forums Friends of FOC EFOC & Tuffhead combo

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    • Ptaylor
      Member
      Post count: 573

      I’ve only killed 2 animals with my selfbow, so the statistics aren’t there to back me up. But the first on I killed was a deer and then the 2nd this bear yesterday. For the deer I was shooting a light arrow shaft, light broadhead, and double-bevel; the bear heavy-single bevel tuffhead, EFOC, heavy arrow. When I hit the deer the arrow went through the meat next to the humerus, a rib, the heart, and an offside rib (not penetrating through the offside skin), and there was a little hemorrhaged meat next to the humerus not much though, none really on the ribs, and even though I went through the heart not much blood in the diaphragm. This bear I hit in the scapula and the arrow penetrated through the bone, ribs, lungs/artery, and stuck in an offside rib. I cannot believe how much hemorrhaging resulted! meat all over the scapula, both sides of the ribs including the offside looked like they had been hit by a car. And the lung cavity was filled with a pool of blood. I mean this thing did some real damage. It’s good to know what the proper equipment will do and have trust in it. I’ll post some pictures of the broadhead hole in the scapula after the beetles clean it up, but might be a couple months cause I wrapped that one up with the meat on the bone.

    • Doc Nock
      Post count: 1150

      Like you, my on-game stats are slim, but a few years ago, I shot a doe with a single bevel, then 2 hrs later, a buck (different arrow).

      Both looked inside like I hit them with a 7mm ballistic tip projectile! There was blood shot meat everywhere! Gruesome.

      Neither ran more than 60 yards!

      Single bevel’s rock!

    • David Petersen
      Member
      Post count: 2749

      Guys, your experience echoes my own with elk, several times over, and that of others I’ve talked to and who have posted here. Doug Krueger killed his first trad elk this year and commented that the entry wound was “a big round hole” as opposed to the usual arrow slit. Even on entry the single-bevel is spinning. A double-bevel cuts like a knife, while a spinning single-bevel cuts like a knife mounted on a high-speed drill! Splits bone and homogenizes soft tissues. All those who argue against this new-ancient technology without trying it are just plain … stubborn.

      As we continue to experience the truth and wisdom and (my primary concern in all of this) humanity-by-lethality of all that Doc Ashby has taught us, let’s never forget the tremendous insults he had to absorb for decades and in some circles still today. Thanks again, Ed!

    • Doc Nock
      Post count: 1150

      Not ONLY insults, David, but grievous mis-interpretations by casual readers, and those who allow personal theory to cloud experiential data!

    • Anonymous
      Post count: 124

      Ptaylor wrote: I’ve only killed 2 animals with my selfbow, so the statistics aren’t there to back me up. But the first on I killed was a deer and then the 2nd this bear yesterday. For the deer I was shooting a light arrow shaft, light broadhead, and double-bevel; the bear heavy-single bevel tuffhead, EFOC, heavy arrow. When I hit the deer the arrow went through the meat next to the humerus, a rib, the heart, and an offside rib (not penetrating through the offside skin), and there was a little hemorrhaged meat next to the humerus not much though, none really on the ribs, and even though I went through the heart not much blood in the diaphragm. This bear I hit in the scapula and the arrow penetrated through the bone, ribs, lungs/artery, and stuck in an offside rib. I cannot believe how much hemorrhaging resulted! meat all over the scapula, both sides of the ribs including the offside looked like they had been hit by a car. And the lung cavity was filled with a pool of blood. I mean this thing did some real damage. It’s good to know what the proper equipment will do and have trust in it. I’ll post some pictures of the broadhead hole in the scapula after the beetles clean it up, but might be a couple months cause I wrapped that one up with the meat on the bone.

      This, as opposed to reports I’m hearing out here in MD about compound shooters with high velocities bows and lightweight arrows – and mechanical heads – getting complete failure to penetrate the scapulas on 35# Sika deer hinds (females).

    • Ptaylor
      Member
      Member
      Post count: 573

      Yeah its rare to find a compound user without a multiblade or mechanical broadhead.

    • Ed Ashby
      Member
      Post count: 816

      I am ELATED that y’all are taking the time to really look and see what happens on your hits. Whenever folks do that they can readily SEE the difference a truly sharp, single-bevel broadhead makes. Put it on the ‘right’ arrow setup, properly tuned, and the wound-loss rate drops drastically. That was my original goal, and it remains the goal today. Thanks to all for the feedback.

      Ed

    • Stephen Smiley
      Post count: 46

      I just returned from my anual Colorado Elk hunt. My partner was using a 70 pound compound and hit an Elk broadside at 12 yards while I looked over his shoulder. It hit what apeared to be the “pocket” and did not penetrate! The big bull just trotted away with the arrow dangling from its hide. We speculate that since the animal was stationary on a steep downside his shoulder blade was probably back farther than normal. Anyway my real question is that he is now verry much interested, as am I, in knowing if he can set up his compound in the same way that we set up our trad bows with heavy arrows and a tuffhead? He does hunt whitetails with a trad bow but thought he really needed a compund for Elk. Since I do not have near the experiance that he does I have not been able to convince him of the EFOC concept. His ears are wide open at this point. Any help or sugestions are appreciated.

    • mhay
      Post count: 264

      I would like to encourage you and your friend to take a little time and read Dr. Ashby’s reports . It is an extreme eye opener . Well written and not the least boring ,,,in my opinion. It would be advantageous with any type arrow launcher to have an arrow set up with EFOC and a high quality single bevel broadhead .

    • Ed Ashby
      Member
      Post count: 816

      Gamagoat wrote: Anyway my real question is that he is now verry much interested, as am I, in knowing if he can set up his compound in the same way that we set up our trad bows with heavy arrows and a tuffhead?

      The answer is: Absolutely. An arrow does not know what type of bow launched it. Every performance factor in the arrow’s design applies, regardless of the bow type used. There are many compound shooters using heavy, EFOC/UEFOC arrows with single-bevel, ‘traditional-type’ broadheads, and with great success. In fact, I’d say that, in actual numbers, there are far more compound shooting bowhunters using those setups than there are traditional bowhunters using them.

      Ed

    • Stephen Smiley
      Post count: 46

      Thanks verry much for the reply to my question. That does make sense to me but I was not sure as I am realativly new to archery hunting. I will start working on a setup for him this weekend as I have gotten my recurve shooting quite well with 750gr arrows tiped with a Tuffhead, and at this point I have enough arrow parts to start a small shop.

      I appreciate any advice I can get regarding a good setup as the last thing any of us wants is a wounded animal.

    • Ptaylor
      Member
      Member
      Post count: 573

      Ed, that’s interesting that you think there are more compound hunters using UFOC/EFOC setups. You’re definitely in more contact with other bow hunters than I am, but I didn’t think it was that common for compound users. Last month I ran into two compound hunters using fixed-2 blade broadheads and that was surprising to me.

      preston

    • Ed Ashby
      Member
      Post count: 816

      Preston, that’s not “think”; from the folks who contact me I’m certain that there are more compound shooters – number wise – using heavy, EFOC/UEFOC setups with trad-type single-bevel broadheads. Many of those are folks hunting the larger game; everything from elk to elephants. I’ve been working with one bowhunter who is writing a book for the compound crowd on what he calls the “Ashby Arrow System”. He hunts the larger North American game, with a particular focus on BIG elk, and just got sick of the poor arrow performance he was getting with “regular arrows”. He uses his 850 grain, EFOC arrows on everything – rabbits and up, and is in the process of tuning up some heavy, UEFOC arrows. That’s from a 70# compound.

      It’s unfortunate that there are a number of trad bowhunters who are very dead-set against the heavy, EFOC/UEFOC arrows – and even some opposed to single-bevel broadheads. Most have never even used such a set-up, but it is not what THEY deem to be ‘traditional’.

      Ed

    • Col MikeCol Mike
      Member
      Post count: 910

      It’s unfortunate that there are a number of trad bowhunters who are very dead-set against the heavy, EFOC/UEFOC arrows – and even some opposed to single-bevel broadheads. Most have never even used such a set-up, but it is not what THEY deem to be ‘traditional’.

      Ed

      Dr.Ed

      Interesting that trad bowhunters would think that–when was the last time we saw a 3 or 4 blade solutrean, Clovis, or Amer Indian arrow head?:shock: Can’t get more traditional then that.

      Oh well “think” is the right word and then thanks to your work–we have data. Keep up the great effort.

      Mike

    • FallguyFallguy
      Member
      Post count: 317

      Unfortunately it comes down to “The Best” or “Good Enough”. And when the experts in our field are talking the last thing they need is some new guy from out of town showing them up. THANK YOU ED!!!!!!!!!!! I used to thing 160’s where heavy and 190’s where outrageous. Now I shoot 300’s with a 100 grain insert. The front of my arrow weight is more than most guy’s total arrow.

    • Ptaylor
      Member
      Member
      Post count: 573

      Then that’s good Ed, the more people using the best arrow setup they can the better. And I agree, odd more trad hunters don’t try it. When that book comes out let us know, even though its for compound shooters, I’d like to take a look.

    • Ed Ashby
      Member
      Post count: 816

      Ptaylor wrote: When that book comes out let us know, even though its for compound shooters, I’d like to take a look.

      Will do. I’ve had a chance to look over the first draft of the book and it covers a lot more about bowhunting than just the arrow setups. I think it will be an interesting read for any bowhunter, regardless of the bow he chooses to use. It covers a lot of bowhunting skills, techniques and ‘lessons learned’ the hard way.

      Not all compound guys are just game ‘shooters’. There are some to whom the hunt is the important thing. This year, the young man writing this book literally stayed on a single bull elk for near a week, following it through the mountains day and night, sleeping in brief naps on the ground, before getting the clear, close shot he wanted. Not many traditional bowhunters go to that extreme. The shot itself is a most interesting story … but I’ll have to save that for him to tell, someday. BTW, it is, most certainly, the biggest bodied elk I’ve ever seen … and the rack is pretty impressive too, though not the very biggest around.

      Ed

    • Anonymous
      Post count: 124

      Dr. Ed Ashby wrote: Preston, that’s not “think”; from the folks who contact me I’m certain that there are more compound shooters – number wise – using heavy, EFOC/UEFOC setups with trad-type single-bevel broadheads. Many of those are folks hunting the larger game; everything from elk to elephants. I’ve been working with one bowhunter who is writing a book for the compound crowd on what he calls the “Ashby Arrow System”. He hunts the larger North American game, with a particular focus on BIG elk, and just got sick of the poor arrow performance he was getting with “regular arrows”. He uses his 850 grain, EFOC arrows on everything – rabbits and up, and is in the process of tuning up some heavy, UEFOC arrows. That’s from a 70# compound.

      It’s unfortunate that there are a number of trad bowhunters who are very dead-set against the heavy, EFOC/UEFOC arrows – and even some opposed to single-bevel broadheads. Most have never even used such a set-up, but it is not what THEY deem to be ‘traditional’.

      Ed

      Blasphemy, I know, but when that book comes out I’m wanting a copy and am extremely interested. Locational/geographic “difficulties” right now might force me back to using one of those wheeled contraptions for a while.

    • Stephen Smiley
      Post count: 46

      Great conversation and good information. I am interested in reading this book as well when it comes out. Thaanks again Dr. Ed for all your contributions.

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