RogueOctober 27, 2009 at 5:08 amPost count: 84
Its no secret that I like aluminum arrows for no more reason than they are inexpensive and I would hate to loose a pricey carbon on a grouse.
The owner of an archery shop and I were talking tonight, of course the subject of arrows came up. First thing he started in on was the KE he was able to get from his fast carbon shafts. He also refered me to some slow motion video on aluminum shafts showing a huge ammount of occilation, and figures this as a reason for poor penetration.
My miniscule mind went into overdrive and had the thought that since it is so much easier to get a higher foc % with carbon, wouldn’t this reduce the ammount of occilation when encountering an obsticle?
Would an aluminum shaft with a higher foc% have less occilation when encountering an obsticle?
For some reason I have this thought in my head that a low foc% is like trying to push a cooked spagetti noodle.
Steve Sr.October 27, 2009 at 10:30 amPost count: 344
I’m sure Doc will touch base here but, if I understand the question correctly, it is covered pretty well in the Report too. Your thoughts are in line with such as I understand it.
EDIT: Doc’s post is below so I edited out a bunch of my blathering.
For ME, I have to agree that carbon was the best choice all around but only for the sake of achieving EFOC, no other.
If not already having read it, the Update in the link above explains the concept well enough for even me to understand it all.
Ed AshbyMemberOctober 27, 2009 at 10:58 amPost count: 816
Yes, higher FOC lowers the occilation, but there’s still some difference in occilation rate between carbon and aluminum. The materials themselves react differently, and carbon does recover faster than aluminum. That said, aluminum still gains benefit from higher FOC. When working with high amounts of FOC I’ve found it more difficult to tune aluminum shafts than carbon shafts, especially as the FOC approaches the upper levels of EFOC. I’ve not attempted any Ultra-EFOC arrows with aluminum.
EFOC offers many benefits, regardless of the shaft material. The only difference is in the effort required to tune the arrows and the degree of benefit derived, but don’t think that means it isn’t worth doing. In next month’s Primitive Archer there will be a Part 2 Article on the bows and arrows of Papua New Guinea. It’s worth a read for all modern bowhunters. That Part 2 article contains information/measurements from two sets of arrows used by a tribe living in the Bula Plains region of PNG. One set consist of several hardwood-tipped arrows with slender cane shafts, and are from pre-WWII. The arrows in the other, currently used set have large diameter cane shafts and absolutely MASSIVE points hand-forged from rebar. As you can imagine, there’s an absolutely enormous difference in the weight of the arrows in each set. What absolutely blew me away was that both sets have been carefully crafted to a near idential amount of Ultra-EFOC! (Is Ultra-EFOC “traditional”? Has it been a well kept – or overlooked – ‘secret’ used by primitive bowhunters for centuries?)
After it appears in Primitive Archer, I’ll post a copy of the entire article in the Library here, along with a few additional comments and observation about the information, and what messages about tuning and using Ultra-EFOC arrows it has for us ‘moderns’.
BertOctober 27, 2009 at 2:15 pmPost count: 164
Good morning, fellow archers and I hope your in fine fettle, Dr. Ashby. I always learn something about “simple” archery from your essays and posts. Thanf you, sir!
As to EFOC, I am working on some 2018 Eastons out of a 50# longbow and will let you know the results of my continued experimentation- this is more fun than handloading centerfire rounds! Dr., do you think depleted uranium would be the ultimate weight forward material( just jesting Homeland Security- I’m not a Wahhabi jihadist!)- with the added benefit of being able to use a geiger counter to find those errant, expensive lost arrows.
When you’re ready to return- if not already- to shooting again Doc. I have a forlorn 70+ lbs Ole Ben 5000 68″ longbow that could serve as your “lightweight”! Let me know and I’ll send her to you- Last time, many years ago, much younger and stronger when I pulled back and let ‘er rip, the left sleeve of my sweatshirt went downrange with the arrow. Somewhat overbowed to say the least.
HalfaHun- half Hungarian shooting half-a – hundred longbow.
Ed AshbyMemberOctober 27, 2009 at 6:12 pmPost count: 816
Bert, I’m glad someone other than me sees all the tinkering with arrow setups as fun! Be sure to keep us posted. I have NOT tried EFOC on aluminum arrows from a half-hundred bow, only the heavier bows. Who knows, might make some difference. I never rule anything out until I’ve tried it. I like the depleated uranium idea … especially being able to use a Geiger counter to locate lost arrows! Now how do we get some? 😀
RogueOctober 28, 2009 at 4:38 amPost count: 84
Thank you all for your responses, they are greatly appriciated.
Bert I too will be interested in with what you come up with for the 2018 shafts. I have been playing with both the 2018 and the 2117 shafts.
I will say that the combined knowledge of this site has been invaluable to me in tinkering with my own arrows.(much to the dismay of my wife.)
Thank you all again.
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