Home Forums Bows and Equipment Brass insert preventing failure?

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    • Kegan
      Post count: 43

      Does the extra length of a brass insert help prevent direct impact failures on carbon EFOC arrows, or should a small footing also be used?

    • rayborbon
      Post count: 298

      It might help prevent some failures. I’m not convinced that it has to do with length as much as it has to do with being brass versus the typical inserts which come with Carbon Express Heritage shafts for example. Length could be a factor in some cases though..

      I didn’t know they made a footing for carbon arrows. I believe they do make inserts and people use them for increasing arrow weight. Inserts might also help to some degree with structural integrity. However I think that once the integrity of the carbon shaft is compromised then the inserts are only going to help the arrow just a tad bit from completely disintegrating. That’s just how I see it.. Just my 2 cents.

    • sapcut
      Post count: 159

      The brass insert probably does help with impact possiblly due to the softer brass taking a hit better than the harder aluminum. I think that is why they tend to bend just slightly rather than break on direct impact.
      But…I think the external aluminum footing is definitely the strength factor. When it is glued in place covering the carbon shaft and the collar of the insert it acts as a bridge connecting the two with added strength.

    • David Petersen
      Member
      Post count: 2749

      Kegan — Yes and yes. What Sap and Ray said. I have destroyed several carbon shafts on purpose with this sort of test, shooting into pine trees straight on and at a sharp angle. Mostly with field points as broadheads are almost impossible to pull, but I have shot a few expendable broahs in these destruction derbies as well. For angled shots I do believe the longer brass inserts help prevent the front of shaft and head from breaking off. For for straight-in shots the head gets jammed back into the shaft and splits it in several places when it gets jammed back. In that case an aluminum collar–I use 2″ to 3″ lengths–cut from an alum shaft seems to help prevent splitting. But then, this shouldn’t be too big a worry with quality carbon shafts and brass inserts (and steel adapters if you’re using glue-on heads) shot at animals, even with heavy bone impact at an angle. What Ashby’s research shows is that aluminum adapters and insert readily break, bend and fail. Avoid those and we’re pretty much over the hump. I built up some alum sleeved wood arrows in an ongoing search to find ways to prevent shaft breakage just behind the head which magnifies with heavier heads and esp. with WoodyWeights (in my limited testing). They were great in every respect exectp the clunky way they look. So far as I know only KingWouldBe uses alum sleeves over carbon shafts. Maybe if he reads this he can offer some knowledge as he’s been shooting them into all sorts of big critters for years. Good luck, dave

    • sapcut
      Post count: 159

      Kingwouldbe has many more kills than me but I do use this lethal arrow setup and will not use anything else.

    • tom-wisconsin
      Post count: 239

      I read some info from another person who said that they use a slow set epoxy and when installing the brass insert they coat the inside of the carbon shaft further back than the length of the insert so when the insert is placed in the shaft a tapered amount of epoxy forms just past the place where the insert ends in the shaft. It was reported that greatly increases the strength of the arrow shaft compared to just putting the epoxy to coat just the length of the insert. The author said that he did extensive testing by hitting angle iron with the arrows. He even cut away the arrow shaft to confirm that the epoxy did indeed created a taper on the inside of the shaft. Next best thing to internal footing.

    • Stephen Graf
      Moderator
      Post count: 2371

      3Rivers now sells an external footing for carbon shafts. It is made of aluminum and not very long. But for the price and simplicity, it might help.

      They sell brass tubes at the hobby stores that come in a myriad of diameters. I keep planning on walking in there with my arrow and finding out which fits best. But I never get around to it.

    • David Petersen
      Member
      Post count: 2749

      Sapcut — thanks for the photo. Why do you use a double sleeve rather than just one layer?

    • tom-wisconsin
      Post count: 239

      David Petersen wrote: Sapcut — thanks for the photo. Why do you use a double sleeve rather than just one layer?

      Sapcut did you ever answer Dave’s question? ❓

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