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    • grumpygrumpy
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      Post count: 962

      Not sure if this is a preview or warning.

      I’m going in for surgury on Tues (8/13). Since I’ll be recovering for at least 6 weeks, I thought I would make arrows. Nothing else to do. Are you interested in knowing how it goes?

    • Doc Nock
      Post count: 1150

      I’d be pleased to read of your progress, updates and efforts. I’d be privileged to carry your name in prayer as well.

      Whatever you do in your rehab period, don’t be a stubborn type! Listen to t he docs and rehab only as they tell you… there will be a day when they’ll tell you, if pressed, “you can’t hurt the repair we’ve done”…then and only then, can you choose to push thru pain!

      Pain is either an indicator you’re doing too much or damaging what was fixed, or that your body is ticked at you for what you had done. Know the difference and heed it.

    • shreffler
      Post count: 69

      I would enjoy it!

      Post some pictures from start to end.

      Good luck in recovery as well.

      Alex

    • Robin ConradsRobin Conrads
      Admin
      Post count: 907

      I’ll add my good wishes for a speedy and complete recovery. 😀

      The build-along is a great idea, but I’m moving it to the Bows and Equipment forum.

    • jpd
      Post count: 22

      Hope all goes well with the surgery and you have a speedy recovery. Yes on the build-along.

    • RalphRalph
      Moderator
      Post count: 2544

      Hope it goes well for you. Remember the old adage, “No pain, no gain”, is bunk. From one who’s still recovering from inguinal hernia surgery a couple of months ago, once is definitely enough for that stuff. Twice I might cry :).

      Be well and build some arrows. We be watching and praying for you. Ralph.

    • James HarveyJames Harvey
      Member
      Post count: 1130

      Good luck Grumps. Here’s hoping for a flawless surgery and speedy recovery 😀

    • grumpygrumpy
      Member
      Member
      Post count: 962

      Had a double inguina hernia back in ’73. Made me stronger.

      Thanke everybody seems your more interested in the surgery than the arrows. Want pics of that too?

    • paleoman
      Member
      Post count: 918

      I’ll check it out. It may inspire me to start making my own. Good luck w the surgery. If you get morphine…enjoy:D!

    • bruc
      Member
      Post count: 476

      Yes ,like everyone else. Good Luck with everything .I’ll be watching for the build along for sure ! I used your idea for the feather burner using a brass piano hinge and it worked well. I was shortening some 5″ that I had so was just taking off the back end.

      Take Care and be nice to the nurses !!

      Bruce

    • RalphRalph
      Moderator
      Post count: 2544

      By the way, do the nurses know of your “handle” 😆 Be kind to those who tend to your ails. 🙂

    • StixStix
      Member
      Post count: 170

      Godspeed on your recovery!

    • grumpygrumpy
      Member
      Member
      Post count: 962

      To clear up some confusion… When I was registering on the site I couldn’t think of a name so I asked Arwen. Since I had just made her go to bed, she said “Your grumpy!!” So grumpy it is. At least it is something pronouncable. Most of the names on here look like misspelled greek or latin or did you find them on a Egyption grave marker?

      As far as the nurses go, Audrey has already said I am not to look at them, talk to them, blah, blah. She is bringing me home from the Hosp, and already has plans for when she gets me home.

    • grumpygrumpy
      Member
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      Post count: 962

      Bruc! What did she say when her piano was missing the hinge??

    • bruc
      Member
      Post count: 476

      I’m stuck for words !!!

      But I sure do like your humor:lol:

    • grumpygrumpy
      Member
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      Post count: 962

      I’m betting SHE wasn’t stuck for words!!!

      What would Red Green do?? Do they have Duct Tape to match the finish on pianos?

      Just for the record:

      Arwen looked at me the other day and said:

      “If you say that word in school, you have to see the Principle.”

    • grumpygrumpy
      Member
      Member
      Post count: 962

      OK, 90 views, and 15 replies, and I haven’t even started.

      BTW: If this in any way resembles the way you SHOULD build arrows, it was pure coincidence. Trying to do this unhindered by convention, science, or rational thought.

      First step is to get the shafts. I like 5/16, don’t know why. Go to a big box store, they have something called dowels. You will find a bunch of them in a bin. Take them out and put them on the floor, take each and roll it on the floor, if it is not straight it will become obvious. Flex them a bit, if they break, you do not want that one. Out of the bin you can find about a dozen that are straight. Good idea to take someone with you to watch out for racing forklifts. If you can not find enough good ones, go to another big box store. I also got one that is bent, just to test straightening technique I thought up (later). They are 48″ long, if you are normal (like me) you can make 2 24″ arrows out of each dowel. Cost 88 cents per dowel, thus 44 cents per arrow (frugal, not cheap). Good thing we are not using our real names here, 3Rivers is NOT going to like this. It says they are hardwood, I’m thinking popular. They also have oak, but I thought that was a bit heavy… No science, just a feeling. If you want you can take your spine tester to the store with you and spend all day there.

      Why doe’s Arwen always get hungry when I’m in the middle of this? “Eat an apple, and throw it away when you are finished. Saving half an apple under your pillow is NOT a good idea.”

      Feathers: I’m using goose primaries that someone was good enough to send me. AWESOME gift. I have what amounts to a lifetime supply (not much at my age). No pigeons were harmed in making these arrows. I used a Fiskares rotary tool to cut the feathers down the middle of the quill. This is an AWESOME tool, I do lots with it. I knew about it, but it seemed pricey, and I was to cheap (not frugal, cheap)to buy one. When Mom went to the nursing home, I found one in her sewing. Thank you Mom. I know you are supposed to use a belt sander, but I would never try it, because I don’t think I could hold/control it. Down below there is a pic of a feather with a ruler. You will notice that the quill is really thick on the left, but hardly any on the right. Since you can only get one fletch from this feather, take it from where there is less quill to sand down. I used the fletch holder from the fletching jig to hold the feather and sand paper taped to a flat surface. SIXTY grit sandpaper. Yup the real course stuff. The feather quill has a pithy center, and the outside is HARD, same stuff God uses to make bear claws, lobster shells, and your fingernails. You don’t need a slick surface, you are going to glue it, you want a rough surface so the glue will stick better. OK, if you want you can use your 200 grit, and spend an extra hour. My philosophy is that anyone who would spend an hour sanding when he does not have to needs a sex therapist.

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    • David CoulterDavid Coulter
      Member
      Post count: 2261

      Make that 16. I’m all for watching this project. If only you were working in a hole in the ground you could really draw a crowd of guys. Good luck with the medical end, too. dwc

    • grumpygrumpy
      Member
      Member
      Post count: 962

      A few comments about feathers….

      Wash your hands.

      First of all, you don’t know where that bird is from, where he has been, what he has done with who. All birds are frequient flyers. The first thing fly tyers do when they get feathers is wash them. I use dish detergent with a capful of bleach, some others freeze them or use the microwave to kill any vermin. I said a capful of bleach, and rinse right away – bleach wil dissolve feathers. Two objectives: health, and avoid contaminating your invemtory. After drying they are stored in sealed plastic bags. If the bag is not sealed, don’t bother.

      Wash your hands.

      For those of you who don’t watch the History channel…

      When the Romans were attacking the Greeks they used Sappers to tunnel under the Greek forts the Greeks made smoke bombs and pumped the fumes into the tunnels. The main ingredent in the smoke bombs was feathers. The Roman sappers died.

      Wash your hands.

      As you can see from the pics I put in the other post, feathers burn really well. Don’t burn yourself!! Not a good idea to have the safety supervisor helping, don’t want to end up in the principle’s office, or take him to the ER.

      Wash your hands.

    • Greg RaganGreg Ragan
      Member
      Post count: 201

      Your welcome for the feathers! Looking forward to how they look on the finished project!

    • William WarrenWilliam Warren
      Member
      Post count: 1384

      Grumpy,

      I like 5/16 hardwood arrows too. Hickory is getting tough to find though.

      Enjoying your post so far and again, hope your surgery goes well and a speedy recovery too!

      Duncan

    • Michael Scott
      Post count: 80

      Grumpy,

      Looking forward to this thread. Already enjoying it! I love your descriptive ability! I can see it like I’m standing there watching. Or maybe that’s my imagination helping? I dunno. Again, best of luck and lots of prayers for surgery tomorrow.

    • Forresterwoods
      Member
      Post count: 104

      Grumpy,

      As an RN and having had several surgeries over the past several years, I wanted to let you know what to expect after surgery. After several days, you won’t be needing pain meds as much but you will go through a period of feeling helpless and being depressed. Hardly anyone gets told that and many nurses don’t even k.ow about it. Even with minor surgeries, your body has temporary hormonal changes which is part of the healing process and physical/emotional depression can show up for a period of time but just know it is tempoary and will be fine. Good luck to you.

      Kevin Forrester

    • grumpygrumpy
      Member
      Member
      Post count: 962

      thanks Kev

    • Doc Nock
      Post count: 1150

      Someone also added to Kev’s good advice, Grumpy… in that the anesthesia (reason those guys get paid so much) is that they just “almost make you dead” then bring you back after the surgery…

      That cocktail they run up your veins is some awesome stuff…and adds to the depression, emotional stress and other mixed juju.

      Drinks lots of fluids post-op, and deep breaths…clean out them innards!

      Them feathers are serious bizness. Guy I know on another site made a biz of grinding turkey feathers and something in the quill dust and feather dust caused him all sorts of misery…

      Washing hands regularly is good, wearing a very, very good dust mask is also recommended!

    • grumpygrumpy
      Member
      Member
      Post count: 962

      Thanks so much for the advice. Wish you had told me that in 2004 when I shattered my heel. This surgery was the same in that the first week, I slept 2 to 4 hours, got up, got dressed…and sfter that ordeal, I was ready for a nap. Lasted about a week, then the itching started and the pain went away. Thought the first week ov isolation I felt was some urge to hide in the cave while injured. Was hard to be polite to the friends/neighbors that came by to check on me. It has been a week, and I have stopped the pain meds (Tylenol is all I need), and I’m wanting to actually DO something. Know that it will be in short bursts, which is why I am doing the arrow build. Not a lot of sustained effort.

      OK, here goes…

      Had a really good idea that didn’t work. The thery is flawless, so it must be in how I did it.

      Since you can use steam to bend wood, and have it stay bent, we should be able to use steam to straighten the same wood. Actually I’ve stemed/bent enough wood to be an expert. To keep the shafts straight I held the arrow shafts to a plastic drain pipe (think 2″ ID) with nylon wire ties, steamed in (you guessed it) the turky roaster. Then let them dry while I was suffering in Hospital. When I took off the wire ties, the shafts had all of these small wiggles. I suspect that it may be becouse: (1) not enough wire ties (2) the pipe was distorted by the heat, perhaps I should have used a metal pipe, thinking aluminum (3) the turkey roaster isn’t really big enough, had to do the steaming half and half. (4) wrong kind of wood oak vs popular. Wondering where Mom’s turkey roaster is, that was big enough to bath a 5 year old. This is one of those ideas that seems so simple, and obvious (now that I have thought of it) that I should have thought of it decades ago. Has anybody else tried it? Any ideas why it didn’t work? If you try it it could become a BAD idea, steam is hot, hotter than boiling water. I don’t want to hear any screams, and don’t call me to take you to the ER. I have pics, just have to get them to the puter and resized, later…

    • grumpygrumpy
      Member
      Member
      Post count: 962

      FLETCHING:

      BTW: Birds have feathers arrows have fletches, don’t really know where the feather turns into a fletch.

      It’s the last day of the season. You have passed up a couple shots knowing that you would have shots at something bigger, better. Now you are not so sure. Its raining. But you are wearing the latest hunting togs, waterproof/breathable/silent/scent proof/camo (which cost more than your wedding/funeral suit your wife made you buy when her sister got married for the third time). Its not a heavy rain, a heavy drizzle. The leaves are too wet to rustle, the twigs too soggy to snap, so you are still hunting. Moving slowly… quietly… looking for your quarry. You know he has found a dry spot, and is bedded up, and not wanting to move. You see him!! It is the shot of a lifetime, he slowly rises, looking off to your right. You draw, release. The arrow jumps from the bow, does that little but wiggle, and….

      Two fletches (the cock, and one hen), come off the arrow, and seem to float in the heavy air… The arrow takes an abrupt 45 degree turn up and to the left to embed itself in a old pine up and to the left of the quarry.

      The critter you were trying to kill, glances up at the arrow quivering in the pine, then gives you a depreciating look (as if to say “I spend half the afternoon looking for a dry place to take a nap, and this jerk has to show up.”), and sort of ambles off into the underbrush’ while the two fletches flutter to the ground.

      At this point you have melted into a quivering puddle of human excrement still dressed in your hunting togs (waterproof/breathable/silent/scent proof/camo), thinking the glue didn’t SAY it wasn’t waterproof.. You wander over to the pine tree wondering why the third fletch didn’t come off. No you cannot reach it, and there is no way to climb up there. Your arrow will be up there for YEARS (with the special cresting so that everyone will know it is YOUR arrow). As you drive home you keep asking “Why didn’t the third fletch fall off?” but you will never know because that is just one of life’s unanswerable questions.

      You jerk! NEVER in the history of marketing has a label ever said what the product did NOT do!! There are lots of glues on the market, the two pictured below will work. They are waterproof (dishwasher safe/exterior/whatever), and they are GELS. If you use a superglue that is not a gel, it will flow (chit isn’t the only thing that flows downhill) down into the fletching jig, and glue the feather to the jig (no, they didn’t tell you that in the jig instructions). At that point you can tear your hair and gnash your teeth all you want, but believe me, unless you make less than the minimum wage, you are better off buying a new fletching jig.

      Do NOT be a quivering puddle of human excrement still dressed in your hunting togs (waterproof/breathable/silent/scent proof/camo) use waterproof glue.

      BTW, if you let your wife read this she may need a clean diaper.

      ?

      Be careful!! Loctite has lots of products on the market. Some are waterproof, some are not, some are liquid, some are gels. READ THE LABEL!!!!

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    • grumpygrumpy
      Member
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      Post count: 962

      Is anybody reading this?

      Don’t mean to complain, but typing with one hand is getting old.

    • James HarveyJames Harvey
      Member
      Post count: 1130

      grumpy wrote: Is anybody reading this?

      Every word mate 😉

    • RalphRalph
      Moderator
      Post count: 2544

      Just taking it all in and thinkin on it!:D Straightening arrows with one hand be bout like the lady checker with her arm in a sling trying to keep up with the $10, $5 and 2, $1 bills at the checkout today with a fan as big as me blowing across the counter, only what you do be harder. Good you have some help making a peanut butter sandwhich. If she don’t eat with an ornery smile.

      A fletcher is one who builds arrows. Fletching is installing feathers on an arrow. Fletches just comes natural with fletchering. An old archer’s invented word I bet. Sounds better than a feather’er feathering with feathers whilst he’s a fletching 😉 If using plastic vanes you be a vaner? In trouble with the locals, tarred and fletched? What’s worse, wet feathers or wet fletches:? 🙄

      It’s hot out and I’m bored! Simple mindedness is what 95* weather does to one who has no arrows to straighten. Got some comin tho. Top o’line. Bet there ain’t a crooked one in the bunch. Ha! They (the shafts) crook in the box on their way to my house!

    • skifrk
      Post count: 387

      I am enjoying the build along and reading every word.

    • grumpygrumpy
      Member
      Member
      Post count: 962

      Feathers are clean, right?

      If your feathers are “direct from the bird” I suggest you cut the feathers with a Olfa, or Fiskares rotary cutter. Pizza cutter isn’t sharp enough, and I don’t know how to sharpen them. Utility knife, my favorite, doesn’t work – not enough control. Should have bought myself a rotary cutter years ago.

      This may seem strange to you but remember we seem strange to everyone else. The part of the feather you just cut off, and are about to throw away is called a biot by fly tyers. They are used for bodies on tiny little flies. Since you are going to throw them away anyway, put them in a box, with a note telling them what they are, and mail them to your local fly tying club (google search, they probably have a PO box). No name, no return addr. Remember the best good deeds are the ones where you don’t get caught.

      Cut to size, and shape: Some other thread has my copper/brass feather burners, Please do it outside, or use a GOOD exhaust fan. Dust masks are for dust, NOT fumes.

      Next we have to sand the base, right? Wrong. Cut them to length first. No sense in sanding the parts you are not going to use anyway. OK. Its 2:00 AM, your wife comes out of the bedroom and says: “Who is that from?“

      “Grumpy.“

      “And what is grumpy wearing?“

      A small white Tshirt, short kaki shorts, COMMANDO!! Does she want my photo, My email address? Down below is a pic of a feather half with a ruler. I would cut the 3” fletch I need out of the center. If I cut it from the left I would have a lot more quill to sand off. If I cut from the right, not enough quill.

      Please keep in mind that I am doing this with one hand, and my photographer is 9 (going on 16). I’m hearing about some dude named Dakota, in her class.

      Sanding:

      I tried all sorts of things (not about to buy a belt sander, as I don’t think it would work anyway). Arwen liked the drum sander on the drill, grabbed the fletch and shot it to the ceiling. Also tried the vibrating sander, drum on the Dremel, various files, etc. As I was trying all this stuff I got to thinking… This is the same stuff god used to make bear claws, lobster shells, fingernails, etc. Soooooooo I tried emery boards. You know the ones that are made to file fingernails. As I recall we were using these to sharpen fish hooks back in the ‘60s, so they have had at least of half a century to make improvements. They worked!! They gave me just the right combination of material removal without loosing control. After splitting, the quill is a channel, with a pithy filling. You want to take off the two sides of the channel, so that what is left is the feather, and the quill it is attached to. No extra quill, minimum pith. The bottom of the quill has to be square to the feather fibers. If not, the feathers will not be square to the arrow shaft.

      There are pics of fletches with the finger nail clippers. I cut the corner off the front fletch quill, so it would be minimized when it hit the arrow shelf on the bow.

      There are pics of fletches on arrows… Notice that I didn’t sand the quill enough. That means that they bounce off the arrow shelf.

      Glueing:

      OK, if you read my last post, and you don’t want to be a quivering glob of human excrement, or have to buy a new fletching jig You have a GEL superglue that is WATERPROOF. It may seem like a good idea (or maybe just an old habit) to wipe your hands on the back side of your jeans. NOT GOOD!! First of all there is a reason why they call this super glue. Second, I dated an ER nurse (talk about drama), and you wouldn’t believe the number of stories she told me that included the phrase “We were laughing so hard we couldn’t help the guy.” (Always a guy, never a girl.) You don’t want to be that guy. Wear gloves, and don’t wipe them on your butt, or you may be permanently attached to your jeans, chair, sheets, or whoever you sleep with…

      If you want to cheat, you can put a LIGHT coat of Vaseline on the fletching jig where it holds the feather. Helps prevent glueing the feather to the jig (sorry 3Rivers). Remember if you don’t put enough glue on the fletch it will fall off, if you put too much on there you will glue the feather to the fletching jig. (Not to put any pressure on you here.) Since either is possible, it is a good idea to do this ALONE. To avoid that daja vu feeling in the principles office.

      If you put a fletch on backwards, you may have some trouble with vocabulary control.

      Check each fletch for length, shape, and is it from the correct wing. I don’t care where you got those feathers, there could be a wrong one in there. We ALL make mistakes.

      Give the glue 24 hrs to set. Now, inspect the fletches, if there are any gaps between the quill and the shaft fill them with the glue, kinda like caulking a gap in your house, just a LOT smaller. Put a little drop at the front of the fletch, to make sure it is held down real tight. If you put on too much you can sand it later.

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    • bruc
      Member
      Post count: 476

      Enjoyed the build-along ! Going to have to try that gel super glue too. I’ve always been a Fletch-tite guy,just never considered anything else. Thanks

      Bruce

      Hope recovery is going good !

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