Home Forums Campfire Forum Are we forgetting our roots?

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    • Amoose
      Post count: 80

      Just curious, but due to a bleak financial situation I am forced to part with the remnants of my Archery collection.
      I sold a vintage dozen Bear Arrows, 6 “green-head” Bear Razorheads, 6 field tip, with original packaging, mini catalog, slot cleaning tool, etc, for the price of a regular dozen,to a guy who is just going to use them.
      No interest whatsoever on a dozen arrows from Glenn St.Charles’s old shop in Seattle with an autographed box and an autographed arrow, either of which went for OVER half the asking price by themselves a few short months ago by themselves.
      Not even on “the auction site” has there been any interest, not even a question.
      Is collecting these old memorabilia just for a few guys like me ?
      My other arrows signed by Glenn, Bill Sweetland, M.R. James, books, quivers, etc, are they just junk that someone will think are just “old junk” in a few short years, with no collector value ?
      I even have a photo of Fred that Glenn took while looking out over the River of No Return (few know that he actually was taking a leak) that I got from Joe St.Charles, that could just be a picture of an old guy if we have no collectors anymore…

    • snafu72
      Post count: 36

      I collect old broadheads and other stuff

      one of my most prized items is 3 Ben Pearson deadheads still in the box

      thats a shame that you had to sell those items to someone who doesnt care about them for what they are

      alot of shooters dont know the roots of this sport only the latest greatest fastest stuff on the market

      not that i know everything about our roots

      but i know theres still die hard collectors out there

    • Stephen Graf
      Moderator
      Post count: 2371

      I think the big question is: Is this stuff nostalgia, or history? Only those with direct experience will value the nostalgia.

      As big corporations succeed in separating us from good land (and our money), the value of connections to the earth will be lost. As A. Leopold observed, a person who is born and lived without knowledge of wild things does not miss them. And as has also been observed : History is written by the victor.

      With the death of Glen St. Charles, the period of awakening of Archery in the US ended. It waits to be seen if this initial period will be followed by a renaissance, or dark ages… and how that history will be written.

      But cheer up! Michael Jackson’s Moon Walk Jacket sold for over a million bucks!!

      My advice : if you want your archery memorabilia to be worth something – introduce as many kids to archery and the outdoors as you can.

    • Mark Turton
      Post count: 759

      Just an observation, for what it is worth, but archery and it’s associated paraphernalia only appears to be valued by those that take part and a few anthropologists.

      Consider prehistory the European middle ages, Asia and the dominant role the bow had in war, hunting and recreation and what remains of our archery history is minuscule this is what has led to recent generations reinventing the wheel it is the method of hunting and sport of the common man, and long may it remain so, unfortunately many of those common men could not read or write.

      If anything needs preserving then it should be the archers craft, the ‘how to’ knowledge that needs passing onto the next generation.

      There is no doubt that the likes of Glen St. Charles, Fred Bear, Howard Hill and many others were the catalyst for the renaissance that we now enjoy but the real value is not in the material objects that they left but the rich history that they wrote and tradition that they created.

      All that said if you have a copy of A Thousand Campfires by Jay Massey I’m interested in buying and if you have a copy that you are attached to I’ll sell it back at the same price at a latter date.

      Hope things work out, Mark.

    • Todd Smith
      Post count: 167

      It’ll come back around, but there are new “legends” today. Not to many of us but to the younger crowd, they don’t seem to have much interest in the heroes we of the older generation admired. They will later, but for now the cycle is in the ‘whiz-bang’ phase again.

      In a few years the demand for quality wood arrows and ‘traditional’ broadheads etc. will be high again.

      I too enjoy collecting the old stuff, and especially books. I’ve sold most of mine over the years though when times were lean…

      There will always be the few who cherish the legends of the longbow and recurve…. We will never give up the faith. :o) todd

    • lee
      Post count: 50

      Don’t give up hope, I’m a young buck, just 23 years old, I guess I’m living proof traditional archery won’t go away! Nobody introduced me to it, my dad only gun hunts,I’m not even sure exactly what got me into it, maybe it was watching Byron Ferguson drill aspirins out of the air. After looking at a few trad bows, I knew I had to have one, I had to master it, such a simple thing, wood and a string flinging a stick with a pointy tip:D…not as easy as Byron makes it look…if I had the cash I’d buy up that old stuff, precisely because I know many wouldn’t appreciate it.

    • Don Thomas
      Member
      Post count: 334

      There are a lot of bowhunters in America now, but for most of them bowhunting as it is now known didn’t begin until the invention of the compound. Glenn St. Who? We at the magazine are aware of the problem, and that’s why we run a “Traditional Archives” column in every issue. The subject matter varies widely, but every column tries to cover something from the “old days”, whether that was 50 years ago or 5,000. We hope you all are reading it. Don

    • Brennan Herr
      Member
      Post count: 403

      Don,
      No worries, I think most of us getting the magazine read every word printed and sometimes 2 or 3 times…

    • Amoose
      Post count: 80

      I know, I am just prejudiced, being one of the “local” guys who used to hang out at NW Archery.
      I would stop in and drink their coffee, listen to stories by Glenn and others, hang out in the museum looking at all the stuff.
      Would get a Christmas card every year from Suzanne, thanking me for buying her arrows.
      Hunted Elk with Joe, and picked up a bunch of stuff from them over the years.
      I even bought the last T-shirt that was on the shelf when they closed, an XXXL, too big for me, but just could not leave it there…
      Lots of good memories of the ST.Charles family.
      My last visit with Glenn was at “The Western States Traditional Rendezvous” in Packwood, WA, unfortunately his last “public” appearance before he passed, he will be sorely missed.

    • Bruce Smithhammer
      Post count: 2514

      It’s an interesting question, but ultimately, I think that history is dynamic and fluid, and not locked into any one era. I have a great deal of respect for those guys from the “Golden Age,” but the history of archery obviously stretches much farther back than that, and has many other facets and cultures and richness tied to it, yet how many of the individual predecessors to people like St. Charles do we remember?

      It’s the rare individual who is still revered by the subsequent generation – even more rare if he/she is still remembered several generations hence. That could be a whole other essay, but for better or worse, it is what it is.

      Who did Glenn St. Charles, or Fred Bear, or Howard Hill look up to? And who did those people before them look up to?

      Their contributions to the sport were many, and we truly stand of the shoulders of giants. But I think the quote in my signature sums it up for me.

      What concerns me far more is the lack of younger people at all in our sport.

    • SteveMcD
      Member
      Post count: 870

      donthomas wrote: There are a lot of bowhunters in America now, but for most of them bowhunting as it is now known didn’t begin until the invention of the compound. Glenn St. Who? We at the magazine are aware of the problem, and that’s why we run a “Traditional Archives” column in every issue. The subject matter varies widely, but every column tries to cover something from the “old days”, whether that was 50 years ago or 5,000. We hope you all are reading it. Don

      That is a factual sad statement, most compound hunters think everything started with the compound bow! 🙄 Which amazes me to no end! 😯 But, I love the Traditional Archives, iimmensely – great stuff! 8)

    • lee
      Post count: 50

      On a slightly different note, not to hijack the thread, I find that most (actually everyone I’ve come across) people who give trad archery a try LOVE it! When I try to get people involved I tell them it is like “throwing darts” and they don’t want to give my bow back! As long as we all introduce people to the sport I think it will only get stronger, just think if each of us get only 2 people involved, that would more than double the size of our ranks:D

    • Dan Sweeney
      Post count: 94

      Hey, I’d be glad to express some interest, but the finances won’t allow it right now. There might well be a lot of others in similar straights. That’s part of the advantage of going about 80-90% primitive. I’ve got about $30 total invested in my current setup. A bit of B-50 string material and some Ace broadheads, and I can still hunt. Just can’t afford either the historical items or new stuff. It isn’t that some of us aren’t interested or are dismissive of the traition. It’s the finances. 🙁

    • LimbLover
      Post count: 299

      My local archery shop has a signed copy of Glenn’s book that has been sitting on the shelf for 2 years at $34 and I’m ITCHING to buy it. You’ve now influenced me to do so. 😀

      donthomas wrote: There are a lot of bowhunters in America now, but for most of them bowhunting as it is now known didn’t begin until the invention of the compound. Glenn St. Who? We at the magazine are aware of the problem, and that’s why we run a “Traditional Archives” column in every issue. The subject matter varies widely, but every column tries to cover something from the “old days”, whether that was 50 years ago or 5,000. We hope you all are reading it. Don

      I love that column! It’s kind of like sitting down with your Grandfather over a pot of coffee.

      Smithhammer wrote: What concerns me far more is the lack of younger people at all in our sport.

      I was always of the opinion that young compound hunters didn’t care about their traditional archery roots and only looked ahead. I’m a social media fanatic and through Twitter and my blog I’ve met hundreds of modern bowhunters who’ve shown me otherwise. Many of them are indeed interested in our history and have contemplated trying traditional but felt overwhelmed and simply didn’t have enough support. I consider myself fortunate to have started at 27 and jumped right into traditional bowhunting 3 year ago. I approached everything as a student and accepted my new community with open arms. Compound guys already have a community and an effective way to do things. Starting over can be scary, especially when the move may not be well received by their current community. I lost several friends to compounds and I’ll admit being apprehensive to their departure at first.

      I’ve made it my mission to find these people and foster this interest because the majority of them ARE younger (20-35) and have young children. If you want to recruit young people, you have to be where they are and there aren’t a whole lot of traditional folks on Social Media platforms consistently interacting. I think I’ve found 15-20 traditional bowhunters on Twitter and I’ve got over 500 modern bowhunting followers.

      Its hard to convince people to make the investment in trad gear when they already spend so much money on the latest and greatest, but you’ve got to take it one step at a time. This includes putting the information out there, making it easy to understand, and acting as an ambassador for those who know little about our world. Mingling and making friends is key. You can’t just push your ideals on someone.

      I’m helping a bowyer out with his business on the marketing side and recommended he tap Facebook and Twitter to build awareness. He began posting photos of a bow he is working on for me and the modern bowhunting community ate them up. The majority of these folks were videographers or bloggers. He recognized this and covered their costs as promos. In two months time he’s sent or has been commissioned to build bows for 8 different people who’ve never shot a traditional bow. That’s eight new traditional shooters with young families and successful bowhunting blogs who will be joining the traditional archery conversation and documenting their experiences.

      The opportunities are there, we simply need to recognize them. I apologize for the long post!

    • bruc
      Member
      Post count: 476

      Good perspective LimbLover.

    • Jason Wesbrock
      Member
      Post count: 762

      Nine or ten years ago I took an NBEF course because my membership in a bowhunting organization mandated it. One of the first things the instructor did was ask people to name some of the folks who were instrumental in the formation of our first bowhunting seasons. The first two answers? Ted Nugent and Chuck Adams.

    • Bruce Smithhammer
      Post count: 2514

      J.Wesbrock wrote:
      The first two answers? Ted Nugent and Chuck Adams.

      Wow. That’s almost funny, if it wasn’t so sad.

      Friends don’t let friends listen to Ted Nugent. Well, except maybe his first album.

    • LimbLover
      Post count: 299

      J.Wesbrock wrote: Nine or ten years ago I took an NBEF course because my membership in a bowhunting organization mandated it. One of the first things the instructor did was ask people to name some of the folks who were instrumental in the formation of our first bowhunting seasons. The first two answers? Ted Nugent and Chuck Adams.

      I actually enjoy Chuck Adams’ stories. You tend to forget what he is hunting with. That is a shame though

      I’m kind of hoping that Fred Eichler helps to bring some of these guys over.

    • William Warren
      Member
      Post count: 1384

      [quote=”LimbLoverI actually enjoy Chuck Adams’ stories. You tend to forget what he is hunting with. That is a shame though

      I’m kind of hoping that Fred Eichler helps to bring some of these guys over.

      I remember reading Chuck’s articles years ago and in one such article he was advocating the use of plaid shirts and dark jeans or other types of pants other than camo. The article was encouraging others to hunt with whatever bow they had and whatever clothing they could muster. Touting sound hunting practices as more important. I liked that Chuck too. We can only hope that eventually, like many of us have done, he will come to his senses and come back to his roots.

      Duncan

    • David Petersen
      Member
      Post count: 2749

      “Friends don’t let friends listen to Ted Nugent. Well, except maybe his first album.” — Smithhammer

      “Lips like a Mazaratti” is the only one I could ever listen to, and that only because it was funny. And that was before Mr. Tedtosterone made himself into a bowhunting (sic) hero (sic).

    • Bruce Smithhammer
      Post count: 2514

      All I can say is that coming up with a phrase like “Tedtosterone” take some serious wordsmithery. Way to put the pen to anvil, sensei.

    • David Petersen
      Member
      Post count: 2749

      Hotdam you’re fast! My fingers hadn’ even cooled off from typing that righteous rant … and there you are! I’d hate to have you as a critic, Bruce. 😆

    • Amoose
      Post count: 80

      remember once upon a time, when the mere mention of “Terrible Ted” was enough to get the fire going in that old stone fireplace at NW Archery.
      From my understanding it all began with Ted filming himself shooting a White Rhino with an arrow, then following it several DAYS in a helicopter, and finishing it off with a rifle. He then published this film.
      Glenn commented on the wisdom of sharing this film with the general public, and the impact on the image of Bowhunters.
      He did not care for the “Thwack ’em, Stack ’em, and Pack ’em” portrayal of archers that Ted advocated, and advocated his own “Walk in the Woods” style of Traditional Archery, the connection with the equipment, and portrayal of the image of bowhunters as being “ethical” outdoorsmen, and able to make quick, clean, efficient kills.
      This resulted in Ted taking personal insult, and responded with an attack on Glenn, and his “Elitist” attitude, and supposedly imposing his own personal morality, and ethics on others.
      Although no longer a public issue, but it became a personal war over their friendship with Fred Bear, and who was more influential in the “progress” of Archery as a sport.
      I am not sure if it was connected, but it was also around this time that most of the compounds came off the racks at NW Archery, and the focus of the store became more towards Traditional Archery, and they started putting out more staves and unfinished bows out, while Jay taught classes on Bow-building.
      It is a shame that 2 such influential members of the Archery community could not put aside their differences, but is a perfect example of the difference between those that bowhunt due to a love of Archery, and those that use a bow just to hunt.

    • Jason Wesbrock
      Member
      Post count: 762

      Amoose wrote: It is a shame that 2 such influential members of the Archery community could not put aside their differences, but is a perfect example of the difference between those that bowhunt due to a love of Archery, and those that use a bow just to hunt.

      I think it’s also a perfect example of the difference between someone who uses himself to promote a pastime versus someone who uses a pastime to promote himself.

    • Bruce Smithhammer
      Post count: 2514

      J.Wesbrock wrote:
      I think it’s also a perfect example of the difference between someone who uses himself to promote a pastime versus someone who uses a pastime to promote himself.

      Well put.

    • wabow35
      Post count: 6

      Maybe due to the economy it’s harder for most people to collect items. I know that i saw some bear broadheads on craigslist a coupe weeks ago(possibly yours since i live in Tacoma) but i didn’t have the money at the time to get them.

    • Amoose
      Post count: 80

      wabow35 wrote: Maybe due to the economy it’s harder for most people to collect items. I know that i saw some bear broadheads on craigslist a coupe weeks ago(possibly yours since i live in Tacoma) but i didn’t have the money at the time to get them.

      If it was the set of 12, 6 broadhead, 6 feild, mini catalogue, etc…

      Yes that was mine, going in the mail today to a guy going to give them to his father for Christmas, been looking for a memory…

      Had to sell them on the “auction site” due to lack of interest.

    • wabow35
      Post count: 6

      Yup those were the ones. Well hopefully he appreciates them. I’m relatively new to traditional bowhunting. And the history still amazes me the more i learn about it.

    • Amoose
      Post count: 80

      If Glenn were still alive, he would be 100 today !

      We lost him in September 2 years ago, they just dont make them like him anymore…

    • Dennis
      Post count: 52

      Guys

      I just moved from Northeastern Ontario Canada to Sandy Utah. On the way I stopped at the Glenn St. Charles Museum and Pope and Young Club headquartes. I considered it a pilgrimage. I spent 5 hours there with tears in my eyes most of the time. If you ever get the chance please visit. It will rekindle your spirit for traditional bowhunting.

    • Amoose
      Post count: 80

      Dennis wrote: Guys

      I just moved from Northeastern Ontario Canada to Sandy Utah. On the way I stopped at the Glenn St. Charles Museum and Pope and Young Club headquarters. I considered it a pilgrimage. I spent 5 hours there with tears in my eyes most of the time. If you ever get the chance please visit. It will rekindle your spirit for traditional bowhunting.

      When it was in the back room at NWA, I would spend hours looking at all the stuff., I even took my NBEF course in the museum, miss the old store and the friendly atmosphere…

    • WICanner
      Post count: 136

      I agree with the thought that it’ll be a collectors item to those that lived in those times. Think of all of the broadhead designs that have come and gone. We who remember, value broadhead collections more.

      Many of the young do have the ‘whack em, stack em’ philosophy of hunting. Ted, I believe, really started the mindset portrayed in so many hunting TV shows and videos out today. I think the young do not make the connection of the traditional equipment role in their success, but only of the new products role, so they loose respect for the old.

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