I haven’t used it on a self bow. But I have used it on 2 bamboo backed bows. One has nock overlays one does not. But both bows seem to be holding up just fine.

I padded the loops with 2 strands of b50 to make them much thicker than they would have been otherwise. I think this is all that is needed.

I have since stopped using b50 to pad the loops. Now I use 6 strands of fastflight instead. Reason being that the b50 doesn’t hold up as well as the fastflight. So the loops start looking raggedy long before the string does. I’ve done a couple strings this way, and it seems better…

I’ve never used anything but B-50 on my self/primitive bows. However, several of the fellows in AL have been using padded looped FF strings on thier bows for years. No stretch, less noise, and makes the bows shoot faster. Atleast thats what they tell me.

Troy

I have only used B-50 on my selfbows, 14 and 16 strand. Maybe your excessive stretch is due to the use of 12 strands? I’m not having any problems with 14 and 16 strand strings that I have made or the ones I have purchased.

Duncan wrote: I have only used B-50 on my selfbows, 14 and 16 strand. Maybe your excessive stretch is due to the use of 12 strands? I’m not having any problems with 14 and 16 strand strings that I have made or the ones I have purchased.

I have to agree with Duncan.I use mostly 16 strand B-50. I personally would not want to use a string that does not have give to it on a self bow.B-50 has give to it so when the bow is shot and the arrow is loose the bow limbs do not come to a stop like hitting a brick wall. Putting a fast flight or similar string on a primitive bow is like running you pickup truck without shocks. The truck won’t like it nor will the bow.

I started tillering with a FF string but then I switch to B 5o for shooting. I really haven’t had a problem with string stretch. Possibly there are too may twists in the string. 1-3 per inch is optimal. Jawge

It seems that to get the most from this topic we should start at the beginning with the question: What force is it, precisely, that causes FF string to be harder on limb tips than, say, the ubiquitous B50? My understanding is basic and may or may not be accurate: FF has less stretch/elasticity, thus the loop servings “slap” the limb tips with more force. I trust that others here can explain the forces more precisely. I am highly interested in Clay’s initial question, as I have a gorgeous osage selfbow with B50 that I’m currently hunting elk with and I’d love to put a bit more speed to, but not at the risk of damaging the bow. Somewhere a long time ago, maybe in one of the Bowyer’s Bibles, I seem to recall having read that unless a limb tip is underbuilt, FF is generally OK for selfbows … it’s the older glass lams that are most in danger. I hope we can get enough informed input here to sort this out. I recently switched to an 8-strand Silent But Deadly FF string on my Shrew; very impressive. Dave

Dave, I can’t answer that. It’s just that I am not willing to take the chance with FF on one of my self bows. Sure you could “beef” up the limb with an overlay and add a few extra additions of B 50 to help out at he tips. However, in my view that won’t add anything to the fps as any weight at the tips decreases cast anyway so we are right back where we started from. I should tell you that many have used FF on self bows with no ill effects. LOL. My prejudice is mine alone …well along with a few others. There is another aspect of using FF which makes me hesitate. I’m hunting with a wild rose arrow tipped with a trade point. All wraps and glues are sinew with hide glue. My bow is an osage self bow. The only rest is my hand. I’ve used a waterproof synthetic glue for the handle covering. I use B 50 for the string. I am unwilling to pile on more technology so I drew the line at FF. It’s my own personal line. One more point …if I were performance oriented I would not be shooting wild rose arrows out of self bows. Please don’t let my comments dissuade you from the use of FF. 🙂 Jawge

I would have to say that I am one of the prejudices that George mentioned. So convinced that fast flight can hurt the bow limbs I had to search The Traditional Bowyers bible as David suggested. Tim Baker in the string section of volume 2 page 214 Tim did nothing for my ego:D. But he does shed light on the subject
Tim says “word has it that Fast Flight is dangerous ,that it has so little stretch it will break a bow. It is not quite that simple; FastFlight,Dacron and linen strings each at a 200lb-test,will stretch enough to cushion a bow .Each strand of FastFlight breaks at 55lb(about 35lb for B-50).that only 4 strands But most string makers use 12 or 16 strands ,bringing the bowstring to 600lb-800lb test,such a string is so overly strong,its low stretch is reduced to virtually nill. As a result bow limbs do feel more shock. One solution is to use is to use only 6 or 8 strands ,straining enough to give a little with a side benefit of higher arrow speed due to lower string mass ” paraphrasing he goes on to that the skinny string loops should be highly padded .and the knocking point would have to thickened also.
In other words use fast flight but do not exceed 6 or 8 strands.:o

David Petersen wrote: It seems that to get the most from this topic we should start at the beginning with the question: What force is it, precisely, that causes FF string to be harder on limb tips than, say, the ubiquitous B50?

Velocity is the first derivative of position. Acceleration is the first derivative of velocity. Jerk is the first derivative of Acceleration. Jerk is also known as jolt or lurch…

The rate at which the string decelerates causes increased stress on the limb tips. The jerk can be minimized in several ways. One of which is to use a stretchy string. The other is to use a heavy arrow. Any remaining jerk can be compensated for with fat string loops.

I hate skinny strings. So I would use a fat string and a heavy arrow and padded loops. But in the end, the arrow wouldn’t go any faster than what you already have. Such is the nature of self bows.

If you can’t have the one you want, love the one you’re with. Don’t ask more than it can give, and joyously you will live!

Thanks for all the good, guys. Don’t know where Clay stands at this point, but I’m convinced that my initial instinct remains sounds: It’s not worth the risk of losing a special bow in the quest for a tiny bit more speed. In my case I could set up some arrows that weight less than 835 grains and likely gain several times more speed than any string could offer. dave

fer what it’s worth, I have hundreds of shots with a slim tipped 64# osage selfbow…….no tip overlays, and TS-plus with slightly padded loops. I’ll probably never use B-50 again for any self bow more than 40#………fast flight and the other “high tech” string materials are about as primitive as dacron in my opinion:roll:………they just work better:wink:.
Darcy:)

hey clay,i know of a few bowyers in oregon that use ff..it seems that they like it BUT they also have to put tip overlays..in fear of the string cutting the nock…if its true i dont know…i use b-50 and also have to streach my string…i make the string up and then hang a bucket of rocks from it for a day maybe two….i dont mind streaching my string for the price of b-50…every one has there own thing when it comes to making bows…what kind of wood do you use in idaho..john

I just finished a Hickory selfbow , the bow was sent roughed out! I added the stain, put several coats of poly on it and finished the rest! the bow came with a string so I started shooting it with string the guy provided! the string he sent is a fast-flight with padded loops,I was suspect on using a fast-flight on a selfbow,so I contacted the guy he said he uses them on all his personal selfbows and had no issues! I did try a B-50, and the bow seems to shoot better with the string he sent! I have shot well over a 100 arrows from this bow and so far have not had any issues! he says that he will replace the bow if I do!

If the primary danger is the FF string cutting into the nocks on a wood bow, how about dipping the limb tips, and inch or so deep, into liquid fiberglass (or maybe even a good two-tube epoxy?) to strengthen them? You could cut the nocks first, slightly large, then dip and clean out excess from the slots with a toothpic before it dries. Then finish as necessary with a small round file. If the glass edges were sufficiently shouldered and smooth they shouldn’t cut the string, and vice versa. I’ve made several wood bows with antler tips glued on; that too might help. I’m anxious to try FF on the gorgeous “snakey” selfbow you gave me, Clay, assuming your blessings. Don’t know if the small working recurves will help or hurt.

Linen stretches less than B50 and may stretch even less than FF. Linen was used for bowstrings for a very long time. If your string nocks are rounded and you have hardwood overlays with FF, you should be just fine and have a bow that shoots faster and has a more durable string.

Jason

I have a FF string on my osage selfbow. Alot, maybe even most, on primitive archer use it as well.

I do think that one should go with fewer strands of FF-type string material. Like 9 strands at most for a 50# bow and 12 for a 60#+ bow. I’ll pad the loops to get them to 16 strands.

Pip Bickerstaffe mentioned using FF string on his wooden longbows in his book “Heritage of the Longbow”. I believe he said less strands are better (within safety margins) and his wooden bows shoot better with FF strings.