David,

Far be it for me to ever offer advice on such advanced things as this—especially with wood, but since the damage seems to occur below your external footing, at the junction with the field point… have you ever considered over-footing your footing and letting it extend over the break point onto the point?

Just a wild thought looking at your picture.

When I did shoot wood, those Ash shafts were hellish tough. So were some nock tapered RRA standing dead cedar shafts in 23/64 tapered to 5/16 nock end… they bounced off many trees in their day and went Timex on me!

Alas, they’re long gone… 😥

A wood die-hard friend went to laminated birch and had good results…but I fear they were likely ‘heavy’ shafts alone.

Carbon isn’t such a bad route to take…just very, very old wood! 🙂

why not use you aluminum footing as shown, but with a screw in adapter. It’d be like you just cut the end off an aluminum arrow and slipped it over your wood shaft. That’d fix any breaking problems between the tip and footing. Seems like I’d seen somewhere that you’d done that in the past.

Keep us updated with your progress either way Dave. I’ve had the same breakage on SS when they hit something hard(ish). I’ve given some local hardwoods a go, but yes, they are heavy as all get out. My only hopes for trad FOC are Kev’s leopardwoods (maybe getting an intentionally underspined but light shaft and building out the strike plate) or bamboo.

Smith Penetrating Epoxy may be just the product you are looking for. It penetrates soft woods very nicely and if you dipped the first 4 or 5 inches prior to finishing it could conceivably stiffen up the SS enough to blow on through those scapula. I’ve used it in boating applications and it’s pretty awesome stuff. It is pricy though. Try Jamestown Distributors. Good Luck.

Dave,

I hope the beer helped you get over that dang arrow disappointment! Maybe Reg had some good suggestions…

I am screwing up the enthusiasm to make some Eastern Red Cedar Laminated arrows that are maybe footed with osage. I am hoping the laminations will make up for the soft wood in the strength department.

But in the end, I think a footed shaft with the back end tapered is about the best you are going to be able to do with wood.

Dave,

You may have already tried this, but….

I had some ash arrows and a few hickory, yes they are a heavy arrow all the way through and don’t lend themselves to EFOC. I gave a couple of each to a guy I met at a shoot in Iowa, I think he was from Nebraska, I ran into him again the following year and he had a dozen tapered hickory arrows he gave me in thanks, any way he tapered them past the usual ten inches that most every one else does.

I can’t say what the FOC would have been but the balance was an inch or More forward of my cedars with 200 grn field tips, they did fly great out of my 55# long bow with heavy heads, I believe I was using 250 grn field tips for the hickory’s, I’d have to check my tuning notes, they lasted for three years of 3D shoots, countless stumping shots at trees, around rocks, and hunting, I even shot one with an old broad head through a 3/4 inch ply wood and into a cement block (that particular arrow lasted three more experimental(read STUPID) shots at a steel post, a pile of rocks, and a car door before breaking about 4 inches back of the head), although I never got to see how they would penetrate game since those years I never got close enough to even contemplate a shot, the test shaft did penetrate the car door with half of the shaft.

It’s weird the things you’re willing to destroy a perfectly good arrow on just to see how tough they are.

They are all gone now but I thought it might be worth a try to taper a hard wood shaft more than usual like he did.

Sure wish I could remember his name, if I ever get back to that shoot I’m sure I’ll see him there.

Hmmmm I think his name was Tom or something like that, I never was any good remembering names correctly but it has gotten worse the last few years.

Just my cent and a half of ideas.

Good luck

Ok, I found my tuning notes; finished shaft was just over 710grns, taper started 4″ behind point and went to 5/16 nock end, field tips were 250 grn and wolverine broad head was 160 grn. When they did break on impact they all broke about 1-2 inches behind start of taper. I did not figure the FOC but from memory they balanced about, and this is just an approximation, 3 1/2 to 4 inches forward of center, I would hedge closer to 3 1/2 than 4. Finished length from back of point to valley of nock was 28&1/4″. They flew just a hair stiff with the field point and perfect with the broad head.

Don’t know if that would help or not.

Troy

Dave, I know you stated you wanted to use 300 grain Tuffheads but just thought I’d give you the stats on some 11/32 teak shafts I got from Kevin at Forrester Shafts. 725 grains finished arrow, 4 3″ A&A fletching, 28 1/4″ BOP, 225 grain Tuffhead, 65# spine, 17% FOC. These are parallel shafts so I’m assuming if you got a heaver spine put a 10 – 12 ” taper down to 5/16 and used a 225 grain Tuffhead you could feasibly wind up with a finished arrow right around 700+ grains and because of the taper possibly pick up around 2% more FOC. I plan on using this arrow on whitetails this year shot out of my 1964 47# (at my draw length) Bear Grizzly. They fly great and I don’t notice any significant drop until about 22 + yards. I limit my shots to 15 yards at game so the drop doesn’t really matter in hunting situations. Just a thought.

Good Luck, Steve

Dave,

Thanks for doing all this research before I went and burned a bunch of $ on the sitka spruce (course now I’ll just spend it somewhere else!). I’m going to shoot the carbons this year, and after hunting season is over start experimenting with woods again. please keep us updated!

preston

Have you considered bamboo?

The Smith&Co Penetrating Epoxy does not build up on the surface. It might discolor a little, but not build up. It could possibly cause the dipped end to swell a little, but that can easily be corrected with a little sand paper. Also, you could probably use a standard blade taper tool for the tip end as the epoxy will harden up the already tapered tip so it would not chip out like SS does in the raw.

What about using a footed shaft with the lighter softwood for the rear of the shaft and a very dense hardwood (wenge, purple heart, etc.) for the forward foot?

Dave have you thought about trying a full length taper shaft out of hickory? There was a how to article in T.B. years back on making your own shafts using a small plane(I call them a thumb plane). I would get some hickory boards and split it into 1/2 X 1/2 X 36″ long. By splitting them you can eliminate the grain running out the side which is the main failure point for hard wood shafts. I am sure there others with much better information on this than me. It would be good winter project sitting next to the wood stove.

Dave would you be so kind as to explain these hardwood splines to us who are not familiar with them and would like to be. Thanks

By hardwood splines do you mean footings?

Dave

I like the quote–trust the author is well known8)

Cheers

Mike

Thanks Dave!

Very cool, Dave. That’s the same concept (and basically the same application) as plywood or any other laminated wood product, with the strength and stability being added in by use of a laminated ply of different grain pattern (and in your case different type – hard vs soft – of wood). It makes sense that doing that would work.

Awesome work guys! Its always amazing what happens when you get people together and come up with new ways to solve a problem. This looks like a real winner for strengthening up the front of wood shafts for use with heavier heads. Now if I can just find a light wood shaft which will take my 29″ draw length at 52-55# I’ll try some too:)

Jans

Good stuff guys. Thanks for sharing.