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in reply to: How much bow and arrow for hogs? #63196

David,
Is that a Habu your shooting?

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in reply to: How much bow and arrow for hogs? #62571

Cheech,
I do not disagree with you on the “dog killing deer” situation.
In those sutuations we would not know the lethality of the hit to begin with. The dog would trail the deer ahead of us then take down the deer. We would then assess the situation and see that it was a terrible shot or horrible penetration with terrible equipment and would not have been fatal. Sometimes the dogs would catch up to a fatally wounded deer that was still alive..and then finish it off.
But without those dogs there would have been many, many deer (70%+) shot with a bow and never recovered. Fatal wounds or not. Again, mostly due to inadequate equipment.

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in reply to: How much bow and arrow for hogs? #61996

I agree…the bowhunters I referred to might not be the best bowhunters in the world but then again…should the best bowhunters in the world be the only statistical references?

Those are factual events from probably average hunters. I am very confident that happens all over the country. However with new research and peer pressure…those percentages should be steadily rising.

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in reply to: How much bow and arrow for hogs? #61959

Cheech
“i do not care if you shoot 40# or 80# more bow will not make up for poor shot placement”
What?
You are more than 100% incorrect. A 40# bow is not going to bust through a scapula to get to vitals and kill a deer.
An 80# bow with a decent weight arrow.. WILL.

Dr. Keith Causey is one of the authors cited in the post by Kingwouldbe. He was my wildlife professor at Auburn University in 1988-91. He was also a trad bow hunter shooting a 70 lb. Rock Mountain recurve and shooting carbon/graphite arrows in 1989. He was well adept in the field and I would certainly rely on his information.

Regarding the low harvest percentages…I was a biologist and hunting guide at a commercial bowhunting only operation on the Mississippi River. I saw hundreds of bowhunters from all over the world hunt with me. 99% were compound shooters. They shot very fast bows and usually very light arrows and broadheads.
I guarantee you just as sure as I am writing this… if it weren’t for amazing Labrador retriever trail dogs the actual kill and recover rate would have been less than 30%.
I know because I trailed deer everyday with those dogs. Rarely were there pass thru shots made and dead deer found 40 yards later. A large percentage of the deer had fatal shots but were found only due to dogs. Some were shot that were not fatally wounded but the dogs would trail them, take them down and kill them.
What I saw was too many people wanted to use the latest and sexiest bow hunting equipment without regard to what really worked and made the most sense. Some of the problems were certainly due to simple ignorance that we all have but don’t realize until later.
I have no doubts about the percentages that have been cited in the different publications. I also think they may be higher than actual. Also back then, not only were people shooting low lb. bows but they were probably shooting low weight arrows with the light and heavy bows. As we now know..that makes a huge difference in penetration.

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in reply to: How much bow and arrow for hogs? #58997

Good shot placement, sharp broadheads, “hit em in the boiler room”. You know all the cliches of people who defend light tackle setups. ALL of these are understood and “givens”. Do you know anyone who does NOT apply this to their preparations?

Again, assuming these are “givens”, what is more lethal a heavy bow/arrow setup or a lighter bow/arrow setup when the arrow hits an animal in the wrong place due to NO fault of your own? It is obviously hard for many to admit.

Regarding the article on page 59…..Bow holders purposely use lighter bow/arrow setups. They do not purposely hunt with a lack of accuracy preparation.
It is incredibly more likely that the loses of animals are due to the intentional use of light weight equipment compared to intentionally not practicing proficeintly.

Not so perfect shots do occur due to no fault of our own. Why not admit that fact, be a little smarter and prepare accordingly?

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in reply to: How much bow and arrow for hogs? #58416

“There was a point in time when bows in the forty-to-fifty-pound range were standard fare for bowhunters pursuing big game”
That doesn’t mean it was the best thing to do. That is just what was available. That is probably one reason that bowhunters got tagged as wounding too many deer.
What Kingwouldbe is saying is not up for debate. It is facts.
It is just a matter of whether a hunter has the desire to use the best setup available or the next best.
Most who use the next best tend to defend their choice as if it was the best.
Rocket science it isn’t.

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in reply to: ask the experts #51727

GRIZZLY

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in reply to: Help With Some Comparisons on EFOC? #49097

Steve,
Another aspect to consider is draw length. Another guy shooting basically the setup as mine got very different results with two inches less draw, but anyway….

I have thought that there has to be some type of physics formula that will allow one to jump a few steps to get to the desired setup. Below is some of my data. I hope it may help.

Black Widow PSA X 71@31

GT Big Game 100, .280 deflection, 10.6 gr./in.
32.5 in. long (nock groove to end of insert)
846 total grains
190 gr. Grizzly Grande
125 gr. steel adapter
100 gr. brass insert
31 gr. 2216 external footing
51 gr. lead worm weight
3 gr. 3- 2.5 inch turkey feathers
5 gr. 3 inch wrap
9 gr. nock
29.3% EFOC

Let me know what else you may need.

Richie

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in reply to: Carbon Arrows: A Stiff Side #39171

Why would a “stiff side” be advantageous? It seems like something that is more complicated than it would be worth. Maybe that is why other brands have equal wall thickness. But then again I have only used the parallel shafts that were huge mistakes.

Richie

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