[Ptaylor]

in reply to: Just brought home my first deer killed with a trad bow. #50277

In regards to bugling: When I hunted Roosevelt elk this past September I heard some bulls bugle. And I figured out pretty quick that the only time the herd bull bugled was when a hunter spooked him, he was moving away from the hunter and his harem. So he would bugle to get the cows to follow him. Once everyone was back together and moving he would shut up. A local that had been hunting there for 30 years told me if the elk here you cow call they immediately flee, and I experienced this after tracking a herd for a few hours I got into them bedded down. I was about 30 yards and started cow calling (now my cow calls aren’t very convincing…) they got right up and walked off. Talk about thick brush, I never caught a glimpse of hide, just heard them walking away.

I was a little too cautious about making noise while looking for the elk. Approaching it too much like deer hunting.

Sure was fun!

Thanks for all the tips Skinner.

[Ptaylor]

in reply to: Personal conservation #32977

Oh yeah, something I forgot:

Regarding a buck with “poor” antlers. There is a lot more than just genes affecting antlers. At the local university, they have every set of antlers from a captive buck for his entire life. Sometime around 8 or 9 his antlers took a big dive in size. They stayed like that for 3 or 4 years. Then they shot back up to their big size. What happened was the game pen staff switched food, and the new food was missing some minerals. This greatly impacted his antlers. But when the minerals were reintroduced to his diet, his antlers took on their original awesome size. So unless you have been watching a specific buck for a few years you might not realize or know that it isn’t his genetics giving him the small antler size, but some environmental factor.

[Ptaylor]

in reply to: Personal conservation #32923

Hey Sumner. Good topic, and necessary to discuss. Here are some of my thoughts:

1) States should have some idea of how deer populations change across their jurisdiction. I’m not sure how it works back east (which is where I assume you live because you can shoot 11 deer/season), but some states out here in the west have different zones with different harvest goals. So they try to manage them with as much local knowledge as possible, but that is really difficult.

2) I think there needs to remain some level of big picture viewpoint. If our scale of looking at deer herds gets too small, then we might miss something detrimental. For example, one County might have a ton of deer and the neighboring County might only have a couple. This could be operating as a source-sink set up, where the County with the big deer herd is keeping the other County’s deer population viable. But if we lose the big picture, then the County with lots of deer might think they should shoot lots of animals, and that could have drastic impacts on the neighboring sink population. Of course, you could make the argument that it is better to have finer scale knowledge the deer herds to manage them better, which brings me to my next point:

3) Along the lines of what Aldo Leopold said, if we over manage animals, then they become less wild. They lose the magic. And they become livestock. I like knowing there are animals out there nobody sees or knows about. I prefer to have them wild and free, rather than intensively monitored and managed. And yes, I’m a biologists. I’ve captured animals and put tracking collars on them. That information is crucial to our understanding of their natural history. But we don’t need every animal tagged or monitored, or every herd.

4) I am skeptical of the whole QDMA approach. Who are we to think we know what is best for the deer genetics? When we talk about removing an animal because of bad genes, we almost always are talking about antlers. And we are selecting bucks for antlers that WE prefer. Not what the DEER prefer. We don’t know which un-portrayed genes are linked with the antler growing genes. We operate on such a short time scale, we don’t know what the long term impact of us selecting for big antlers will have on the deer. I also just think it’s pompous of us to treat the deer like that. Again, too much management for my liking. Let the deer and time sort out their own genetics.

Anyway, those are some of my thoughts this morning. Looking forward to what others think.

[Ptaylor]

in reply to: Website Upgrade #32749

7 years! Congrats! Keep up the good work. I was flipping through some of the popular hunting magazines (the usuals found in a waiting room), and I’m really thankful TBM exists. Needless to say, I was disgusted with the approach to hunting these other publications profess. And the website allows me to interact with tons of like minded hunters.

Preston

[Ptaylor]

in reply to: I think a Dingo ate my Baby! #39622

My friend captured video (on a remote game camera, total luck) of 2 coyotes killing a mature buck (right on the edge of the line for black-tailed and desert mule deer), down near the SF bay area. I was able to watch the videos. It took the 2 coyotes at least 45 minutes (because they came onto the camera chasing the deer already) to kill it. The last 15 minutes, the buck is in this sort of “dream” state, not totally conscious, head on the ground for long periods, then popping up and looking around; all the while the coyotes are feeding on the deer’s ham. Right before the buck dies, you can see his femur bone the coyotes ate that much meat off him while he was alive! It was pretty rough to watch, even on video.

[Ptaylor]

in reply to: I think a Dingo ate my Baby! #37155

Steve Graf wrote: A fellow around here said that just a couple coyote’s could clean a deer out in a night. He said they will eat as much as they can and return to their den to regurgitate the meat to eat later. Then return to the deer and repeat process till nothing is left.

What a nasty habit!

That’s a tough hunt Steve. Was it dark when you retrieved your arrow? I’m just wondering why you didn’t walk over to the last place you saw him for a look, before heading home…? Did you think it was not a good hit and were worried about spooking him? I guess maybe it was just that you thought he got a second wind?

The coyotes do do what your friend said in the above quote, but they don’t have dens this time of year. Dens are just for raising pups in the spring. However, they will carry off pieces of meat and cache them in holes in the ground. I wonder how many coyotes were feeding on the deer?

[Ptaylor]

in reply to: Bison/Buffalo hunts? #32215

There was an article a couple years ago about a guy who killed one with traditional archery tackle. I can’t remember if it was in TBM or Primitive Archer Magazine. Maybe someone else will know.

[Ptaylor]

in reply to: Single bevel Question… #32209

I remember reading Dr. Ed saying he files the Grizzly broached into a narrower shape to get a higher ratio of length:width. I think that was called mechanical advantage. His findings were a narrower broadhead is better than a wider one for penetration.

[Ptaylor]

in reply to: Clay's Gate #23451

I enjoyed that read as well.

[Ptaylor]

in reply to: FOC/EFOC-Minimum? #20120

colmike wrote: Thanks for that insight Joe.

Jason next time you visit I have field points already made in various weights that you can try on your arrows. But as Troy says–you need to bare shaft tune with the weight you are gonna use. And as you know I’m shooting 750gr arrows with 33%EFOC which Dave P told me minimum he accepts for elk (arrow weight not EFOC). Someone said isn’t that a bit much for whitetail—and I reflect on Dr. Eds comment that there is no such thing as overkill on the sacred prey.

Mike, do you mean 750gr. is Dave’s minimum weight for elk? Or that 33% FOC is the minimum FOC for elk?

Thanks for the clarification,

Preston

[Ptaylor]

in reply to: Elk Heart on the radio #17889

Steve Graf wrote: I was a little disappointed that the only arguments brought up to justify conservation were economic based.

Unless we can learn to see that all living things, game or non game, plant and animal, have a fundamental right to exist that goes beyond their economic value to us, we are lost.

Steve,

What you have said here is exactly how I feel. It is especially important in the wildlife sciences world. At the wildlife department at the local university (and I know this is the way it is across the country), THE justification for hunting is economic, then management. Most of the undergraduate students are young, impressionable, urban people with no background with wildlife. They are taught about wildlife and wildlife management, and indoctrinated with these principles we’ve held in the management of game over the past century. But they only learn that hunting is good for raising money and keeping deer populations in check.

We have to move beyond this, or, as Steve said, we will lose eventually. And so will the animals and wild places. There are more beneficial aspects to hunting. Anyway, that’s my rant for the day, I haven’t even listened to the radio interview yet, but am excited to!

[Ptaylor]

in reply to: Just brought home my first deer killed with a trad bow. #16137

Great work David!

[Ptaylor]

in reply to: A nice memento #12874

Nice shed skinner!

[Ptaylor]

in reply to: Sharpening single bevel heads ? #7954

Ron et al.,

When you’re ready to remove the burr, from the back side, which grade stone should I use?

Great thread.

Preston

[Ptaylor]

in reply to: Trail camera question #60999

Hey Alex, you may want to check it soon since it’s your first time setting them out. I like to check them after a couple days when I first set out a camera. I do this to make sure I had the settings on what I wanted, and to check the angle if it’s only getting parts of animals or the picture you want, and to make sure there isn’t some grass blowing in the wind or sun spot I hadn’t seen. Other than that after the first check to make sure I set it up right, then I like what’s been posted above.

[Author]

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