[Arne Moe]

in reply to: Woodchuck Arrow Taper Tool Improvement #58013

Guess I’ve been living a “charmed” Woodchuck life. My WC is set so both points and nocks have the same stop adjustment. No readjustment necessary. Not sure how I did that, just set it and never thought about it again. I get great tapers for both points and nocks with no adjustment.

Sometimes its better to be lucky than smart??:D:D:D

Arne

[Arne Moe]

in reply to: Woodchuck Arrow Taper Tool Improvement #52598

Steve,

I’ve had a Woodchuck for several years and have never experienced what you describe. In fact, I find it a pain to change sanding disks. Getting them off then cleaning so a new one can be adhered to the plate. Guess I’ve been lucky??

Arne

[Arne Moe]

in reply to: Archery Anatomy #39766

dwc, Glad to hear you are working on this. YES! YES!!! Form will produce accuracy. Keep your mind on the FORM and the bull’s eyes will be there. Stress on the bull’s eyes and the form goes out the window, every time.

[Arne Moe]

in reply to: Archery Anatomy #24788

Maybe not so much a stronger hook but rather just do not let the string roll or move IN your hook during the draw. Any movement of the string in your hook will change all the careful placement you used to set it in the first place.

Arne

[Arne Moe]

in reply to: Archery Anatomy #16581

Dave,

I’d suggest that you are making a common error in your training. You appear to be trying too many things at the same time. You mention BT, Arrow flight,Targets out to 35 yards, etc.

Work on one thing. Here is an example. IF you decide to work on back tension this session, then work on BT!! NO target, NO different ranges JUST BT!! Once you have that THEN AND ONLY THEN you might decide to move to a different distance. I’m talking a month or two here.

OK, Move the target out a couple yards, NOT to 35 yards!! Now you can work on the target BUT!!!!! you remain conscious of BT!! IF your shot changes a little ( loss of or change in BT) you STOP at the longer distance and return to the BT drills.

ONE thing at a time. As your targets move out in distance the “become the arrow” (trajectory) information will filter in.

When working on a form item, checking your progress by shooting at a bull’s eye, leaf, whatever is a prescription for “instant relapse!”

Slow down on the technique changes, ONE thing at a time. Work on that ONE thing until you have it pretty well mastered and tend to accomplish it nearly every time. Then move to the next item and work on that BUT don’t let the first thing you worked on get lazy or change. Don’t “check” your progress by shooting at a target. Your “progress check” is YOU and your analysis of your shot execution; NOT!!! where your arrow hits.

Remember, even a bull’s eye can be a mistake!!

Arne

[Arne Moe]

in reply to: Archery Anatomy #11536

Wish I could! I don’t have the video editing savvy or technology to draw dotted lines in the air or transparent planes to show flat surfaces. Wish I did/could.

[Arne Moe]

in reply to: Archery Anatomy #11309

dcw,

Hint, hint!! “Become the arrow.”

Arne

[Arne Moe]

in reply to: Archery Anatomy #44449

dwc,

YES! Core Archery is the compound NTS book for all intents and purposes. Another that MAY be of interest is the book “Archery” by USA Archery. An inexpensive NTS form book that is relatively inexpensive; less than $20 from Amazon and other places. It is pretty much “target” form but again, looking at different perspectives can only give more information.

Too my knowledge, there is no NTS style book written strictly from a “Trad” viewpoint. I TRY to show NTS techniques in my videos, and the Jimmy Blackmon videos are good too — also on You Tube.

IF!! a person is interested in “biomechanics” and how it MAY apply to their archery, the more perspectives one can review the better.

Arne

[Arne Moe]

in reply to: Archery Anatomy #39078

Folks, “Core Archery” is a TOP book written by a TOP coach, Larry Wise (USA Archery Level4 – NTS coach, multiple time champion a few years ago, and VERY active in archery and archery coaching). I frequently recommend this book when I am responding to compound shooter’s questions.

I seldom mention it on “Trad” forums due to the backlash of “OMG!!! That is a wheel bow technique so can’t possibly have anything good for us in it.”

Core Archery DOES show all the correct techniques that are easily applicable to our “Trad” ways. There is discussion about using releases, but basic form is basic form!! And Larry’s book is at the top of a short list. We all can( I have!!) learn a lot from it IF we can leave the “trad bias” out and perceive the “meat” of the book.

Arne

[Arne Moe]

in reply to: Archery Anatomy #26650

No “part 2” yet. Been trying to think out what to put into it AND work up the energy to do it. I keep thinking I should show several common errors, then think, “I shouldn’t show negatives.” Mentally bouncing around how to make “part 2” a complement to “part 1.”

Another problem I’m wrestling with is that SO much of the Bow arm is connected to what we do with the string hand/arm, my thinking seems to start blending the two together. That would probably be material for “string arm and hand “part 1 & 2.”

OH GADS, I’ve created a MONSTER!!!!

:D:shock::?:lol:

Arne

[Arne Moe]

in reply to: Archery Anatomy #25722

colmike,

F-100, A7D, and KC-135. South Dakota ANG — 8 years, Utah ANG — 8 years, Alaska ANG — 20 years.

Retired as the Wing Commander of the Alaska Air National Guard, 168 Air Refueling Wing, Eielson AFB.

Arne

[Arne Moe]

in reply to: Archery Anatomy #25689

:D:D:D

Nice try David. I was a military pilot for 36 years, but it would be hard to get me to endure the TSA crap they have going these days. Driving is a better choice for me.

Steve, If you have that much “natural” pronation in your arm, have you considered bowling? REALLY, just kidding, but I think you would have a deadly hook.:shock:

Arne

[Arne Moe]

in reply to: Archery Anatomy #24721

Steve, We seem to be missing each other’s point of view. I struggle with your description of the “tension” through the arm.

Here is one more experiment for you to try if you want. Get an old galvanized bucket, the kind with a wire bale for a handle. Fill the bucket with water to make it relatively heavy (3/4 full or more). Set the bucket beside your foot on the string arm side of your body.

Now, squat down far enough so you can “hook” the bale with your string fingers. Keep your arm hanging straight and completely relaxed from the shoulder to the finger tips EXCEPT for the “hook.” Then stand up straight, lifting the bucket with your body and maintaining the hook.

Feel the weight of the bucket on your finger hook and the shoulder. NO tension in any part of the arm except that needed to hold the hook. That is how your arm should feel at full draw. The entire arm is just a chain connecting the “hook” and the shoulder.

Now, get someone to gently rotate the bucket left and right about a 1/4 turn. KEEP THAT ARM RELAXED!! See how your hand follows the bale on the bucket?? You don’t use muscle to move the bucket but your hand follows the wire bale.

That is the feel you should have when shooting. The string elbow is completely relaxed (nothing but a loose hinge whose angle is set by the BOW, not you), the wrist is completely relaxed (in fact you may or should feel the bones in the wrist actually separate a little). ALL you are doing is holding the hook.

As I say, in person this is pretty easy to explain and demonstrate. It’s much harder to say in words.

Arne

[Arne Moe]

in reply to: Archery Anatomy #24364

Steve Graf wrote: [quote=Moebow]Steve,

But if you have your coaching hat on and want to help, here’s a question I had hoped the book would answer, but I don’t think it did:

As viewed from the elbow of the string arm looking toward the hand, as tension is applied to the string arm, the hand wants to rotate CCW until the palm is parallel to the ground. This causes me to torque the string.

Haha. My Hat is always on for any who ask, I’ll do what I can.

You say, “…as tension is applied to the string arm,…”

Have you ever tried drawing with a Form master? That is the quickest explanation. Drawing the bow with your elbow via the form master allows you to have a TOTALLY relaxed upper and lower string arm. If there is no tension in the arm, the hand won’t rotate as you describe.

But, in words, I believe your problem is caused by too much arm tension that isn’t really needed. Here’s why I say that.

IF the muscles of the arm, biceps and forearm are relaxed, there will be no movement that is caused by muscle action AND IF there is no tension in the arm, wrist and hand then the bow string itself will align your hand to where the STRING wants it to be. I often see the “S” of the string as it sits in the fingers at full draw (string torque) but that is just the shooters using muscle that isn’t needed or even wanted in the shot. This OFTEN is caused by what is called an arm draw. Common in self taught shooters. Just “pull the bow back” however you can.

Here is another thing about this. When your string hand twists the string that way, how is it that the bow doesn’t rotate (like a propeller)? The string, especially at full draw, is 2 levers connected to the bow’s tips. IF the string is twisted, then the bow should move to try to take that twist out. BUT now, the shooter must GRIP the bow hard to fight that. IF the shooter has a light/loose bow grip, the string twist SHOULD let the bow turn to align itself.

So too much (any) tension in the string hand, wrist, forearm, upper arm Also requires bow grip tension in the bow hand. Tension begets tension and the shot goes downhill rapidly.

Finally a little experiment for you. Without a bow, hold a position like you were ready to draw. Bow hand out, string hand LIKE it is on the string. Now draw the bow, keeping your string arm relaxed, just move it to full draw position. (You could watch yourself in the mirror if you want). Does your string hand turn? REMEMBER, RELAXED!! All you are doing is “levering” your upper string arm (humorus) around until the string hand is at anchor.

The hand stays vertical or at least in the same relative angular position it started in. This is what the form master will show too.

The drawn bow is a basically triangular shaped plane of force. that plane WANTS to stay FLAT. If we twist the string we create a distorted plane. The plane will seek to flatten itself by causing the bow to rotate but we don’t want that so we put a “death” grip on the bow. See where this all goes?

Steve, you have a very common concern/error but in my experience, tension in the wrong places is nearly always the reason. Getting rid of it is not easy, but can be done. You just have to convince yourself to RELAX EVERYTHING that is not needed. This is also why “US IRRITATING coaches always recommend a light bow or rubber band to work on this stuff. You do need resistance to learn the movements but you don’t need RESISTANCE to the point that you can’t concentrate on the MOVEMENT.

Finally, and frankly all this typing trying to convey in words a technique is usually only one hour with a coach in person. The technique is much easier to explain and do in person than it is to write about.

Hope I gave SOME help!

[Arne Moe]

in reply to: Archery Anatomy #23437

Steve,

Would you give me a reference to the ” shoulder roll thing”, as referenced in Axford or video? As a coach, when I hear the word “roll” it concerns me. To be sure, there is shoulder movement, bow side and string side but if done incorrectly (by “rolling”) CAN cause injury.

To me, “rolling” the shoulder implies a change of angle of the clavicle to the sternum. IF you are talking about the bow shoulder, moving it into the bone on bone alignment we look for is a turn of the body which moves the shoulder into alignment but NO change of angle of the clavicle to sternum.

Arne

[Author]

Posts