[johnny2]

in reply to: skeletons in your closet #33756

Steve, I don’t want to argue this either and obviously you have seen more deer than me, but if I remember correctly the backstrap runs from the top of the spine(actually its not the spine but a dorsal bone attached to the spine if I’m right, I don’t remember what it’s called) to the top of the ribs. Both of the deer I mentioned were shot through the bottom of the backstrap and top of the ribs well forward of the diaphragm. Now it’s been years ago since these incidents happened but I was looking at carcasses not remembering where my fletching was at the shot. Just for the sake of a deer anatomy lesson how could this have happened any other way? A spine hit would have been obvious and a lung hit would not have a deer kicking days or weeks later. I’m not the only guy around here that has seen this hit on deer later taken by a lethal shot.

The statement about deer surviving a one lung hit came from a Jim Dougherty article years ago.

Again Steve I respect your opinion, you seem like a level-headed guy that knows what he’s talkin about. I am really curious as to what happened on these shots. I was told about this void when I started hunting and every one that I know accepts it as gospel, I’m talkin guys that have been huntin as long as you gray beards:D What’s going on with these hits? Can you hit a deer above the lungs without hitting the spine unless it’s just a skinning shot? Wouldn’t a shot through the backstrap hit bone unless it went under the spine? Let me know man. If I’m missing something I’ll be the first to admit I’m wrong.

Dave, you are correct, this subject was redundant in that we already have the Ashby reports and that most folks that are thoughtful enough to hunt with a stick are most likely among the most ethical of hunters and discussing numbers of lost animals would be pointless. My bad. I’ll just stick to coming up with REALLY controversial subjects.:twisted:

If nothing else perhaps this thread can satisfy my curiosity about this danged “no mans land ” shot.

[johnny2]

in reply to: skeletons in your closet #33488

You’re right a percentage would be impossible

As for the void between spine and lung, it exists. I have had 2 experiences with this hit. The first was on an 8 pt I shot a few years back on public land. Upon recovery I noticed a fresh broadhead wound through the backstrap. With a little bit of asking around I found who had shot him, actually a friend of mine. The buck had been shot 2 days prior to my killing him. When I shot him he was showing no ill effects. The second time was on a small buck I eventually killed 7 weeks, yes thats right, 7 weeks after my initial hit on him. I was pretty sure it was the same deer and when skinning him I found the scar in the perfect shape of the 3 blade muzzy(compound days). I have several friends who have also killed deer with similiar wounds. All that I know of were in perfect health. I say if someone doesn’t believe in this void they haven’t seen very many dead deer.

I base my belief on the survival of many unrecovered deer on two things. The first is knowing a lot of hunters that have shot deer with broadheads lodged somewhere in them or bullet wounds from past seasons. I don’t think a season has gone by when one of my friends or myself hasn’t taken a previously wounded deer. And these are just the obvious wounds, what would we find if we were really looking. Second, I hunt public and private land, both recieve heavy pressure. I know most everyone hunting on these places and if I don’t I will know someone who does. I hear about almost any deer shot whether it’s recovered or not. I think that in most cases if a wounded deer dies someone will find it eventually. Crap, one deer expired in the creek after a fatal hit last fall and was recovered in a brushpile when the water went down this summer by some fishermen. There are very few carcasses found by folks roving the woods, and we are talking fairly small areas of land with a high hunter density. It may be different out west but even in the mountains here hunters are like horse crap, ain’t too many places they ain’t been(don’t know if anyone else has heard that expression before, it’s an Arkie thing). I’m not saying all lost deer are found by someone or they survived I just think most are.

I have heard of documentation of deer survival even after a one lung hit. Documentation by biologists. Wild animals are incredibly tough. I have killed turkeys that wouldn’t make it through a metal detector because of the lead in them from a previous hunter encounter, struttin around without a care.

[johnny2]

in reply to: Number 1!! And Number 83!! #31311

Make no mistake Steve I would have arrowed the buck(well, shot at him) if I’d have had an arrow on the string. Never in my wildest dreams expected to see hardcore chasing on Oct 15. Chase phase usually hits here after Halloween.

I want to let everyone know my number of deer isn’t meant as a boast. I’m 38 years old and have been bowhunting since I was 15 in a state with liberal bag limits and have been blessed to have access to good areas(and some good mentors)along with some out of state hunts. I put the the number in there to let everyone know that even after all those deer I still have brain farts in the heat of the moment and that the fire is still burning, just fanned a little hotter by the use of simple stick and string.

[johnny2]

in reply to: Number 1!! And Number 83!! #29675

Thanks Montana.

Johnny

[johnny2]

in reply to: The Good, The Bad, and The Really, REALLY UGLY. #28415

I really don’t want to beat a dead horse and I know that there are bad apples in every sub-culture no matter what it is, but could the current crop of antler and success at any cost obsessed “hunters” simply be the by product of all the marketing hype and “outdoor icons” seen on a daily basis? Seems like every other “serious hunter” around here is angling for a pro-staff position with the local bow shops when 10 years ago if you had said a buck going about 170 was seen everyone would assume you were talking about how much it weighed. Just thinkin out loud.

[johnny2]

in reply to: Feeders / foodplots / supplemental feed!?!?!? #21906

Urban humor from a guy shootin at critters with a couple of sticks in the great northwest backcountry. Where else can you go to get this stuff?:D

[johnny2]

in reply to: Feeders / foodplots / supplemental feed!?!?!? #21899

Let me back up a bit, on our private land I think it skews the numbers but on public land we have the same problem as you Idahoans. Is that the right word?:D
Our culprit is a 48 combined days of modern gun and black powder season. There I go complaining again, sorry.

[johnny2]

in reply to: Feeders / foodplots / supplemental feed!?!?!? #21882

And I thought my posts were sticky subjects, man this could get ugly if everyone isn’t courteous.

In my home state food plots and baiting are a way of the hunting life on private land with each landowner trying to pull his neighbors deer across the fence. It gets really complicated when after attracting all these deer the club wants to get some additional doe tags to thin the herd cause dang it, we need to get the herd in balance, we got too many does on this place! Meanwhile, the hunters on the neighboring property(be it public or private) are wondering what happened to all the deer. Hey guys, quit feedin em and their will be natural dispersment of bucks and does, no need for extra thinning of the herd.

All that being said I am on a lease, mainly for a place for my daughters to hunt. I helped plant food plots and will let my daughters hunt over them, but I will not. Well, at least not till January if I haven’t put anything in the cooler yet. I look at food plots as kinda like plan B, it’s the same way I feel about killing a deer with a gun or now a compound.

Corn feeders and supplements I’ve never hunted on. It just don’t melt my butter to hunt deer like that.

I’ve never really wanted to kill a bear though there are plenty around. If I did I think killing one with its head in a bucket or chomping on a jelly donut would seem a little queer. But thats just what I think.

[johnny2]

in reply to: Tag Soup #21842

I am spoiled!! Our archery season runs Oct.1-Feb.28 with a 3 deer limit, squirrel and rabbit run Sept.1 till Feb.28 we get March off then 3 or 4 weeks of spring turkey in Arkansas which I follow up with a short trip to Kansas for just a couple more gobblers all while our fishing season goes all year!! WHEW! I of course find something to gripe about with our game and fish all the time. I am an IDIOT! I guess I never stopped to look at all the opportunities I have here compared to other states.

Any of you, feel free to give me a virtual kick in the butt for being so spoiled. I’ll be sure to count my blessings from now on.

[johnny2]

in reply to: U.s vs. Stevens #21365

Good points. Nothin in this ol world is fair. Let’s just hope for the best.

I’m just sayin’ somebody blew the whistle on em to get to this point.

I swear GTA, you seem more mature and insightful with every message you post. I’m impressed.:o Now don’t let it go to your head, you’re still only 18:D

[johnny2]

in reply to: U.s vs. Stevens #21318

I understand GTA, it is a scary situation. Everything hinges on a politicians view of animal cruelty and freedom of expression.

My point is why draw the ire of the Humane Society or any other organizations(or mainstream America) with such a controversial subject and product for sale? Maybe we need to police our ranks a little tighter.

Most Americans agree with fair chase hunting and weapons ownership but any pursuit by dogs is looked on by some as unfair, pit bulls with their negative press add more problems. Right or wrong a lot of folks see things this way. It seems the farther you get from simple one on one pursuit of prey the more support you shave off. Why risk it?

Had the subject matter been doves with a shotgun or bear with a bow I don’t believe he would have recieved as much negative attention. Hopefully we can all learn something from this.

[johnny2]

in reply to: U.s vs. Stevens #21193

I agree with Hiram, it’s not the breed it’s the owners. I also agree with Clay, pit bulls are typically used as catch dogs and I don’t care to see a bear ran to exhaustion with a couple of pits hanging on either end.

This guy is most likely just promoting his style but he has opened the flood gates of criticism and judgement on all of us(we are all lumped together in the eyes of the general public). First he chose a hunting method that divides even hunters then he chose a breed that inspires mixed feelings even among dog owners. Two controversial subjects thrown together are sure to cause problems, add the marketing of the act and the precedent of the law and abracadabra, instant firestorm.

I really don’t understand, if his methods are legal(even if controversial) why draw attention to them(especially if controversial)? Is he trying to sell something? Is he trying to promote this method to enrich everyones tool box of effective tactics?

While I personally find his methods appalling( I haven’t seen the film, this is based on what I’ve read, if I’m wrong about it I’ll retract) I don’t agree with the letter of the law, I do however agree with the spirit. Perhaps a little forethought(or maybe a friend of his saying “Hey man, maybe you shouldn’t be selling this”) would have saved us all the trouble of having to defend our lifestyle yet again.

[johnny2]

in reply to: 4 wheelers, Dave Peterson #20843

Dave, is Back Country Hunters a regional organization or nation wide? We have a serious problem here in the Ozarks, they have become the playground for all kinds of ORV’s from 4-wheelers to cage buggies. The problems you fellas talk about with the elk are the same ones I encounter with turkeys. Nothing is more frustrating than hiking back in an hour or so only to be greeted with the growl of a fourwheeler come gobblin time.

If there’s not anything in Arkansas, can we start a chapter here?

Thanks

Johnny

[johnny2]

in reply to: Conflicting Emotions about gun hunting… #19264

I have been very lucky to fill my freezer in the fall without the use of a gun….then I bought a longbow.:D Last autumn I broke out the wheelie bow because my wife said it was time to swallow my pride and put some meat on the table. Wouldn’t you know the 2 deer I killed presented the shot I’d been looking for all season with my stick; broadside, unaware, sub 15 yards. No shame in whatever method used as long as it’s done ethically. As I haven’t shot my compound all year, I may be joining you out there wth a gun if my freezer is barren.

I hunt squirrels with a 22 and my absolute obsession is spring turkey. My experience chasing gobblers in these mountains with even a compound could be described as futile at best(unless sitting in a blind, which I’ve found isn’t really my cup of tea)so the Benelli takes center stage come April.

[johnny2]

in reply to: Tree Stand and Harness Advise #17119

I’ve hunted from a stand for about 20 years as well, here are some things I think will make your hunt safer and help you feel more secure:

Use a larger platform stand, climber or hang on. Back in my younger days I would run and gun, changing trees almost every time I hunted and small stand was advantageous to this method. As I’ve gotten older(and hopefully better in my hunting strategies) I hang most of my stands as much as a month before season. Now I use larger stands and the difference in regards to roominess makes my vigils more comfortable.

Use a safety harness not a belt. I use a seat-o-the-pants, I’ve had it for about 7 years. I’m also looking at a shock absorber version.

I’m am also looking into some new systems that allow you to stay attached to the tree until you are in the stand or back on the ground.

You don’t have to hunt nose bleed hieghts and the shot angle is much better if you don’t. As long as you have adequete cover 15 ft is plenty, even with these spooky Arkansas deer.

As always, camo is vital, hands and face specifically, those are the parts you’ll be moving the most.

For the ultimate in a secure treestand consider a ladder stand.

While I now prefer being on the ground, when conditions dictate, a treestand is like a front row seat to a nature show, allowing you to see many critters in an undisturbed state. And there is no doubt the tactic is deadly effective.

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