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in reply to: How much bow and arrow for hogs? #60997
Kingwouldbe,
J. you keep saying ” because it works ” I beg to differ with you my friend, the FACTS say it don’t/didn’t work as ALL STUDYS THAT HAVE BEEN CONDUCTED indicate vary bad wound/kill losses.
I think you may be confusing equipment issues (which is what I’m discussing) with operator malfunctions (which is what your studies reflect). I don’t see anywhere in what you posted that those wounding rates were due to inadequate draw weight. As a matter of fact, one of them is very clear that shot placement was to blame.
From your post (please note bold text):
” 8. A major study in Texas by Boydston, G.A. and Gore, H.G., (1987) collected data from 3,568 hunters over a thirteen year time period. The authors found a wounding rate of over 50% and found that more than 21 shots were needed per kill. The authors state that these numbers are conservative due to the fact that they are based on bowhunter reported surveys. This study concluded that shot placement is for all practical purposes random, that wounds clot quickly leaving poor blood trails, that poorly hit deer, more often than not, are lost, and that almost all abdominally shot deer die a slow death due to peritonitis.”
In order to use those studies to support your theory of increased wounding losses due to insufficient draw weight, the people conducting those studies would have had to categorize the results according to draw weight and compared the wounding percentages accordingly. I don’t see any such data in your post.
What is interesting to note is that the wounding rates you cited seemed to stay the same from decade to decade, despite more efficient equipment (including compound bows). So maybe it all really does come down to the loose nut behind the wheel. 😉
in reply to: Gun Season with a Bow? #59753Greatreearcher wrote: [quote=J.Wesbrock]Here in Illinois, we are not allowed to bowhunt during the general firearms season.
For some reason, I still feel a bit off balance trying to be stealthy, blend in, and get close while basically dressing up like a Day-Glo carrot (and a skinny carrot at that).
Hmmm kinda a werid law, but I suppose they do it for saftey?
If I recall correctly, the way it was explained by someone in the DNR was something to the effect of how bowhunters get 100+ days afield in IL, so they can give up seven days to stay out of the gun hunters way. Honestly, I can’t say I disagree.I hate having to wear orange, but there is no way I would go without it with some of the nut jobs around my area. It is hard to get close with that blaze on, and here in Maryland we only have to wear a hat!!!
The first blaze orange vest I bought was one of those cheap, shiney ones. In early morning and late afternoon light, it almost looked like it glowed. I immediately got rid of it and bought a more muted, softer fleece one that didn’t seem nearly as reflective (although still perfectly safe). I usually end up killing at least one deer every year with my recurve while wearing that newer vest, and I can’t say I’ve noticed being spotted by deer any more than while wearing camo.
Either way, it’s still a mental thing for me, trying to be stealthy while wearing a color specifically designed to stand out. It may drive me half nuts (assuming I’m not already), but it sure beats sitting at home on the couch.
in reply to: How much bow and arrow for hogs? #59641Greatreearcher wrote: I think folks today overexagerate and overpower there game too much, alot like to use 300’s and 308’s for deer, when a 243 or a 30/30 will do fine! Way off topic, but great pics guys! Best of luck hog hunting duncan
ChrisActually, it’s not as off topic as you may think. You wouldn’t believe how many discussions take place (on the internet and elsewhere) over whether or not a .30-30 is a suitable rifle for deer hunting. Sure, they’ve worked just fine for over a hundred years, but some people think .30-30s aren’t adequate, and that folks should use something like a 7mm Magnum instead — you know, “just in case.”
So we as bowhunters may get bogged down in these circular discussions, but at least we’re not alone. 😆
in reply to: How much bow and arrow for hogs? #58590Sapcut wrote: “There was a point in time when bows in the forty-to-fifty-pound range were standard fare for bowhunters pursuing big game”
That doesn’t mean it was the best thing to do. That is just what was available.If it works, it works. And no, those bows weren’t “just what was available.” Bowyers made bows in most any poundage requested. There are certainly enough old Bear, Howatt, and Pearson 80# recurves out there to demonstrate the point. Why did they use bows in the forty-pound range?
Because they worked.
Ironically enough, when I interviewed Tim and Gabby Cosgrove of Kustom King Archery a couple years ago for TBM, the topic of draw weight came up. They told me that in the 80s they rarely ever sold a bow under fifty pounds. These days they don’t even stock them over sixty pounds. Perhaps bowhunters are starting to relearn what does and does not really work? It’s somewhat of a shame that we have to keep re-inventing the wheel, so to speak.
That is probably one reason that bowhunters got tagged as wounding too many deer.
You may want to read the writings of Glenn St. Charles or Chet Stevenson for insight as to why bowhunters were “tagged as wounding too many deer” back then. Suffice it to say, the problem was politics, and not draw weight.
What Kingwouldbe is saying is not up for debate. It is facts.
It is just a matter of whether a hunter has the desire to use the best setup available or the next best.In that regard, we should all leave our bows at home and hunt with the previously mentioned .500 Nitros. Yet, we choose archery equipment. Why?
Because it works.
Rocket science it isn’t.
Indeed.
in reply to: How much bow and arrow for hogs? #58192Yes, Brent killed the hog with a quartering away shot well within his effective range. Back at camp, he set the hog up against a sand bank and took a test shot broadside into the shield. He penetrated both sides. Would he take that test shot on a live, healthy hog? No, but it was food for thought.
There was a point in time when bows in the forty-to-fifty-pound range were standard fare for bowhunters pursuing big game (were .22s ever the norm for recreational elephant hunters?). Those bows worked fine back then, and I’d be willing to bet that the Good Lord isn’t making animals any tougher today than He did in the 60s. Of course everything has its limitations, but to take the opposite extreme of your analogy, I don’t need a .500 Nitro to kill a jackrabbit.
I understand the thought process behind “overkill” in bowhunting. But the same logic—preparing for “what if”—that leads one bowhunter to choose more poundage and heavier arrows with two-blade heads will cause another to choose lighter poundage, faster arrows, or larger broadheads. I suppose which road we take depends on our personal experiences and individual priorities. In the end, my opinions on the subject mirror Don Thomas’ article on page 59 of the latest TBM. It’s a good piece; if anyone hasn’t read it yet, they should do so. It puts things into perspective quite well.
in reply to: The Line In The Sand: Traditional Equipment #58177The problem with trying to define traditional archery is that most, if not all, accepted parameters have no historical foundation. If we simply decide on “pre-compound” than just about everything else is on the table, sans wheels and letoff. The fact of the matter is that synthetic arrows (particularly aluminum), elevated rests, stabilizers, sights, and mechanical releases all predate fiberglass-laminated limbs.
Personally, how someone else chooses to define my equipment is of no consequence to me. I choose how I hunt and with what I hunt because it gives me tremendous enjoyment, not because someone else feels it fits into some arbitrary category.
in reply to: How much bow and arrow for hogs? #57974snuffornot wrote: Thanks Hiram,
I’m shooting 45# right now. I was having difficulty with my usual 55# bow so I dropped back in poundage and am shooting much better now. I may be back in shape by early spring and can feel confident again with the 55# bow for hogs. I’m most interested in the little piggies for the BBQ but I will shaft a boar if the opportunity comes.
DuncanWhen I was in West Texas this past May, one of the hunters in camp, Brent Hill, killed this 225# mature boar. He used a 48# Bob Lee recurve shooting an unweighted carbon arrow tipped with a 1964 Bear Razorhead.
As always, these things come down to proper shot placement.
in reply to: When and why do you replace your glove? #57964I tried to use a shooting glove many years ago and quickly went back to a tab. I personally find tabs much better suited to both target shooting and bowhunting than gloves, but that choice really is an individual one.
I replace my tabs just before they get worn through the first layer of leather, which takes a very long time. Thankfully, the tabs I use only cost around six dollars each, and I always have one or two broken in replacements on hand.
in reply to: Gun Season with a Bow? #57052Here in Illinois, we are not allowed to bowhunt during the general firearms season. Thankfully, I do most of my bowhunting in Wisconsin CWD Zone where there is no break in archery seasons.
I’ll admit, it took a few years for me to get used to being afield during rifle season, having never killed anything bigger than a goose with a gun. For some reason, I still feel a bit off balance trying to be stealthy, blend in, and get close while basically dressing up like a Day-Glo carrot (and a skinny carrot at that).
I’m a lot more selective of where I bowhunt during rifle seasons. You couldn’t pay me to set foot on most public land, and some of the private land I have permission for always seems to be in the middle of someone’s deer drive or line of fire. But there is one small woodlot I like that has no bordering rifle pressure, and it’s usually a productive area once the gun start sounding off.
in reply to: Target Panic #56603Hiram,
I never said bale work wasn’t useful for from and control. What I said was that it didn’t help with my TP. Yes, TP is a control issue, but not all control issues are TP. My beagle is a dog, but not all dogs are beagles. Am I the exception or the rule? I don’t know, but after reading everything I could and talking to dozens of people over the year about TP (including Rod Jenkins) the only rule I’ve found is that there are no “rules.” Everyone’s different, and no one cure is universal.
Yes, Rod Jenkins uses a lot of bale work. He’s also a strong advocate of clickers, but doesn’t use one anymore because they’re not allowed in his shooting class. He still struggles tremendously with TP to this day. I don’t.
I know all about building one’s form and shot sequence into the subconscious. Twenty-five years of competitive shooting more than drilled that into me. Bale work is a great tool, but it’s not the only road leading to Rome. I’m not sure where I posted that my shot sequence is conscious instead of subconscious, but that’s simply not the case, even with a clicker.
The use of a clicker does not preclude one from executing his or her shot subconsciously. As a matter of fact, a conscious release and a clicker go together like Jenny Craig and Colonel Sanders. FITA shooters, with extremely rare exceptions, all use clicker, and you’d be hard pressed to find a successful one who thinks of anything except aiming during their shot sequence.
I think bow tuning is one of many situations these days that seems prone to overcomplicating. I don’t need to know how a mechanical clock works to wind it, set the time and regulate it—crank the key, move the hands, turn the nut on the bottom of the pendulum.
The Easton Tuning Guide is a simple step-by-step manual that can be downloaded for free here: http://www.eastonarchery.com/pdf/tuning_guide.pdf
Bow tuning shouldn’t be a complicated procedure.
1. If it’s nock high, lower the nock point.
2. If it’s nock low, raise the nock point.
3. If you can’t tune out nock high, try a double nock set.
4. If it’s weak, use a lighter point or shorten the shaft.
5. If it’s stiff, use a heavier point.
6. If you can’t get consistent arrow flight no matter what you do, check the loose nut behind the bow. 😉in reply to: Target Panic #56553Hiram,
Thanks for the reply. I’m very familiar with bale work, and while I find it helpful to isolate form components, it did absolutely nothing for me with respect to fighting TP.
in reply to: Target Panic #56421I developed a raging case of TP several years ago. Long story short: no amount of sure-fire drills had any lasting effects for me—blank bale, dropping draw weight, shooting drills etc. In many cases, instead of fixing existing problems, they created more. One thing I’ve learned throughout the years of fighting TP is that there is no one-size-fits-all cure. What works for one guy may work against someone else. It wasn’t until I started shooting with a clicker that I got a stranglehold on my TP. I should have saved myself a ton of frustration and bought a Crick-It a long time ago. It was probably the best thirteen dollars I ever spent on archery equipment.
in reply to: Bow Refinish #54132I would highly suggest not using urethane on a bow unless you know for a fact what woods the bow is made from and that urethane will cure on it. On certain exotic woods such as cocobolo and bacote, urethane will not dry. It will remain a tacky, sticky mess.
I have used urethane on some older recurves when I knew it would cure, but for the most part, I use Thunderbird epoxy finish on either my homemade recurves or older bows.
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