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in reply to: broadhead tuning #62661
Mounting broadheads straight on wood shafts starts with a correct taper. If your taper is not dead straight, it will be much more of a challenge to get your heads mounted correctly. Ferr-L-Tite is an excellent adhesive and allows a good working time to get your heads aligned. There was an article recently in TBM about mounting broadheads, but here’s a quick Cliff Notes version.
If you don’t have a spinner, you can make one out of about a foot of scrap 2×4 and four nails (smooth nails are best). Use the nails to form a pair of Xs on the 2×4. The nails will cradle your arrow and allow you to roll it to check for wobble in your broadhead. This way you can see even the slightest wobble in the tip of your broadhead and adjust its alignment accordingly. If it wobbles, just bump it lightly in the opposite direction…safely.
Most glue-on heads are not hunting sharp out of the package. To be honest, you’ll need to sharpen them anyway after shooting, so I’ve never seen much value in them being razor sharp from the manufacturer (modular heads are a different story). There are a host of online tutorials on broadhead sharpening and many good products on the market to help you hone your heads properly. Personally, I use a mill file, a crock stick, and occasionally a piece of leather for a strop. It’s quick, easy, inexpensive, and I can carry it with anywhere.
With respect to tuning, I’ve found that if I properly bareshaft tune my setup, broadheads and field points of equal weight will impact together out to 60 yards (I don’t shoot animals that far, and haven’t test shot broadheads further than that in a lot of years). A lot f folks specifically broadhead tune their bows, and it works well. The process is the same as bare shaft planning tuning via the Easton Tuning manual, except that you substitute a broadhead-tipped arrow for a bare shaft. I have one or two broadhead-tipped arrows that are specifically for practice, so there’s no need for me to ever resharpen those ones. But it’s still a good idea to test shoot all your hunting arrows prior to sending them after an animal. It may eliminate an unwanted surprise if one of your arrows doesn’t shoot quite the same as the others (spine is wrong or something like that)
in reply to: It's getting CLOSE! #61958R2,
I feel your pain. I used to refer to fall turkey tags as insurance policies that birds would never get in the way of my deer hunting. I was actually after a HUGE tom on my property this year. On the videos I have of him he was kicking his beard while he walked.
I only ever saw him once while I was hunting this fall. He flew down with a big flock of toms, jakes, and hens. But when they hit the ground, he and the other males split from the flock, ending up in front of another treestand 80 yards south of me. The hens came in my direction. Bird in the hand and all, the lead hen is now in my freezer.
The tom? I found what I assume are his tracks a few weeks ago in less than an inch of fresh snow. His beard left drag marks down the center. I’d really like to put an arrow through that bird, but then I wouldn’t have the fun of hunting him anymore. I suppose I’d eventually get over it though. 😉
in reply to: FOC question #60849Ray,
Sounds great. I have to admit I had to Google them to see what they look like. For some reason, I don’t see Wasp heads at the shops around here. They look like a nice design, and tougher than the Razorbacks.
in reply to: FOC question #60833Ray Montoya wrote: i shoot 100 grain tips, now 100 grain sharpshooters from wasp. my bob lees and morrisons are cut 1/4″ past center instead of the standard 3/16″ past center, so i use a stiffer shaft…
How do you like those heads? They look a lot like the newer NAP Razorbacks that were out a few years ago.
in reply to: FOC question #60826Troy Breeding wrote: The last I heard Fred had increased his overall arrow weight. Add that to a 30″ draw and he will have some punch power.
He may not shoot that heavy of bow weight, but heavy arrow and long draw will do wonders for penetration.:D
Troy
I know he increased his arrow weight for his recent buffalo hunt, but haven’t heard where he made any changes for his normal hunting. On Traditional Harvests IV he mentioned that for his polar bear hunt he went to a stiffer shaft (.340) and replaced the normal 15-grain inserts he uses for 100-grain brass ones, giving him an arrow weight of 540 grains. That would actually put his normal arrow weight a touch under 500 grains, which sounds about right for a 54# @ 30.5″ Palmer shooting 188 fps. Mark Land recently posted on another site that Fred gets close to 200 fps out of his new recurve that’s also 54# at his draw length, so I don’t think his day to day arrows are even 500 grains total.
Whatever he uses, it sure works well for him.
in reply to: Need help with carbon arrow selection #60462Just a couple quick points:
Ed…The last study in your list was from 1989. That was well prior to the resurgence in mechanical broadheads (Punchcutters and Bloodtrailers came out in the early 90s) and the widespread use of carbon arrows. If I’m not mistaken, Beman Hunters first came out in the early 90s as well. That was also before the big hatchet cam speed craze hit, which was largely due to the boom in 3D archery. At the time of the later studies you posted, aluminum arrows and fixed blade heads were the norm.
Troy…Yes, I do tend to blow the bell curve with my draw length. And I’m always conscious of that when discussing things like draw weight (which I haven’t mentioned here). That’s why I usually just note my arrow weight and velocity, as I did earlier. That’s also why I like to mention my grandfather’s success with whitetails shooting 42# at his 26” draw length with mid-400-grain arrows.
in reply to: Need help with carbon arrow selection #60432Scout,
I don’t really think I’m the “con” in the pro-con discussion. To me, that implies for or against, and I’m really neither. I use what I use because it works well for me, and I encourage others to make the same decisions for themselves. The individuality of this pastime is one of the things I most enjoy about it.
Thanks for the follow up, and I now understand what you were asking for with respect to arrow performance. One of the things I’ve always done is take at least one photo of any medium or big game I kill and write certain details on the back of the picture—equipment, location, shot distance, shot placement, damage, recovery distance. My photo album is at home, but I can post some info here off the top of my head.
Since 2001, my arrows have been very consistent. I shoot full length unweighted Beman ICS 340s with 25-grain glue-in adapters and 125-grain heads. I fletch them with four 4” parabolic feathers and cap and crest them in the same pattern my grandfather used on his last set of arrows (he died before he hunted with those arrows, so this became my sentimental way of taking him with me).
They weigh 500 grains, plus or minus a couple. The various bows from which I’ve shot them have produced speeds ranging from 194 fps (my homemade recurves) to 200 fps (my present setup).
The vast majority of my entries involve animals either broadside or slightly quartering away and double lung pass throughs. I rarely pay much attention to rib damage on whitetail because they’re kind of like white popsicle sticks surrounded by meat. There’s not much in the way of resistance to penetration. Aside from that, I’ve put those arrows through various off-side shoulder bones on mature whitetails (mostly upper leg, including that knuckle at the base of the shoulder blade). I’ve also put them through a few vertebrae over the years, although never intentionally. My steepest angle was hard quartering away on a mature 12-pointer at nine yards. The arrow entered in front of the left rear hip, took out various intestines and such, the liver and lungs, exited through the right front shoulder, and buried in an oak tree. That was with a four-blade Zwickey Delta. My steepest downward angle was a mature ten-pointer quartering away five yards from the base of my tree. That arrow cut a rib near the vertebrae, took out both lungs and the heart, cut another rib near the sternum, and stuck in the dirt. That arrow was tipped with a Woodsman.
With my moose, the initial shot was broadside, walking at 11 yards. The arrow penetrated both lungs, split a rib vertically on the exit side, and flew into the cutover. He trotted about 25 yards and stopped broadside, so I shot him again. That arrow also passed through, although in hindsight, the shot was unnecessary. He was dead on his feet from the first arrow. It was my first experience shooting a moose, and I figured if he was going to give me another shot I would take him up on the offer
in reply to: Need help with carbon arrow selection #60396Ed,
Thanks for posting that information. It actually demonstrates exactly what I’ve been saying. As bowhunting equipment has become historically “more lethal” wounding losses remained relatively consistent. That leaves us with that one important common denominator: the proverbial loose nut behind the wheel.
in reply to: Need help with carbon arrow selection #60285Scout,
For the record, and I only say this because with some folks this seems to cause confusion, I never once mentioned Ashby or his work in my post here. I addressed arrow weight (and EFOC only after Dave’s follow up comment). People were debating arrow weight long before Ashby (or any of us for that matter) were alive. It’s not a new discussion by any means. And you are absolutely correct; individual experiences are limited in scope. That’s why we can also draw from several decades of collective recreational bowhunting.
The parameters for me regarding “there was no advantage over the accuracy and penetration I currently get” are very simple. My accuracy did not improve with heavier arrows (at unknown yardages, quite the opposite actually), nor did it improve by shooting EFOC arrows at known yardages where we can eliminate the variable of distance estimation. With respect to penetration, when my current arrows stick in the dirt on the other side of whatever animals I shoot (up to and including bull moose), there is no penetration gain to be had. A pass through is a pass through.
With respect to photos, I’ll have to apologize in advance, but I’m not at my laptop. If you are interested I could try to post some kill photos tonight when I get the time, or you could always read through the last several years of TBM.
” I went to efoc because it looks to give me a better killing arrow just in case.”
I wanted to single this quote out because it is key. Archery is a highly mental sport, and confidence plays a huge roll. If making a certain change gives an archer increased confidence, than there is significant value in making that change. We shouldn’t ever underestimate the emotional side of archery (whether our “targets” are paper, foam, or flesh)
in reply to: Need help with carbon arrow selection #60240Dave,
If that is what you shoot best, than that is absolutely what you should be using. If a person finds a different setup works best for him, than that’s what he should be using. Life would sure be boring if everyone did the same things the same way. I’ve tried heavier arrows and tested some with EFOC. For me, there was no advantage over the accuracy and penetration I current see, so there was no reason for me to change.
in reply to: Need help with carbon arrow selection #60158newbreedarcher wrote: So I guess my question is.. Is a really heavy arrow like that need if I’m only going to be going for white tail, and maybe the occasional black bear? Sorry I didn’t put this in my post yesterday. I was falling asleep at my computer! So I might have left out some crucial Info:)
The heavy versus mid-weight versus light arrow debate was going on long before any of us were born, and it’s not likely to end soon. There’s plenty of sound reasons for each, so it really does come down to personal opinion.
Fred Eichler killed all 29 North American big game species with arrows that weighed, as I recall, between 500 and 550 grains. My paternal grandfather hunted for decades with a recurve pulling 42# @ 26″, mid-400-grain arrows, and very rarely failed to pass through a whitetail. My hunting arrows weigh at or very near 500 grains, and I can’t remember the last time I left a broadhead in an animal — deer, hogs, elk, moose, and such. As a matter of fact, on my bull moose I put not one but two arrows completely through him. It took us longer to find the arrows than the bull.
In the end, I think it comes down more to what you shoot accurately than whatever numbers your calculator spits out.
in reply to: It's getting CLOSE! #59567dwcphoto wrote: I wouldn’t swear to it, but I’m pretty sure I heard a gobble on Sunday morning here. I ran into a flock a few minutes after that on the ridge and then saw a few more that flew out of trees down closer to the house. They got a very early start last year and the season was did not go well for a lot of hunters in PA. dwcphoto
My wife and I were up at our Wisconsin property a couple weeks ago. It was rather odd to hear a tom gobbling for a good half hour first thing on a February morning. It felt more like April.
Last spring was my daughter’s first bowhunt ever, so I basically called for her. We both had tags, but my agreement with her was that my arrows stayed in the quiver until she had her tag on a bird. That morning we saw three coyotes, two small black bears (which weren’t supposed to be anywhere near that part of Wisconsin), a couple deer, some hens, and two huge toms. Unfortunately, neither of the toms would leave their hens and come within her bow range (but they were well within mine). Regardless, it was a great weekend, and neither of us had any complaints.
This spring my friend has agreed to once again let Rachel and I try to fill some turkey tags on the cattle ranch where he hunts. The following week, I’m bringing a different hunting partner of mine to our property so he can try to take his first bird with a shotgun. I’m definitely looking forward to spring turkey season again this year, even if I’ll mostly be calling for other people. Maybe I’ll bring a camcorder along just for fun.
in reply to: Side cut vs center cut bow shelves #59555Steve hit the nail square on the head. There’s one part of his response that bears repeating.
“Now to your first question- Bows that have a deeper shelf are said to be easier to tune. Meaning a wider range of arrow spine will fly well out of them.”
That explains why (until you get to very near dead center) the closer to centershot your bow, the more forgiving it shoots. Being less sensitive to spine means it’s less sensitive to inconsistencies in shooting factors that affect dynamic spine—draw length, release, bow torque and such. One of the main reasons for tuning our bows (in addition to eliminating broadhead wind planing and increasing penetration due to straight flight) is to make them more forgiving to shoot.
This is why I rarely, if ever, suggest people build out their strike plates to tune a weak arrow. To me, it seems counterintuitive to tune a bow in an attempt to increase forgiveness by making a change that will reduce that forgiveness—one step forward, one step back. As a side note, the Easton Tuning Guide lists several ways to correct for weak arrow spine, none of which include building out the strike plate (decreasing centershot).
in reply to: d97 string stretch and other stuff #58006I’ve been using D97 for my homemade endless strings for about 12 years now. With 12 strands, after half a dozen shots it’s pretty well settled in. I may lose 1/8″ of brace height over the life of the string after that point. With B50 it takes significantly longer to settle in.
Just a word of caution: if you tune with. B50 string and then change to D97, your arrows will shoot weak and you will have to retune.
in reply to: Helle knife kit #56258I make mine the same way Dave does, with one possible exception. I also grind the sides of the tang to the same width as the blade. That way everything slides together with no gap near the blade. An 1/8″ long drill bit works great for drilling out your handle stock. Drill two holes cnext to each other and work the bit around to create a long, oval shaped hole for the tang. Devcon 2-ton epoxy works great.
A word of caution: Helle blades are extremely sharp right out of the package. Before you start working with one, cover the blade with cardboard and wrap it with duct tape. You don’t want to hold a sharp blade when you’re working on the handle (been there, done that, bloodied the t-shirt).
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