Forum Replies Created

Viewing 15 posts - 481 through 495 (of 781 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • Ed Ashby
    Member
      Post count: 817

      David, look here: http://www.above-timberline.com/gold%20tip%20target%20arrows.htm

      The shafts are listed just as Gold Tip Ultralight Shafts. This isn’t where I bought mine but it was the first site that came up when I did a search.

      The Easton Axis works well for Ultra-EFOC too, but cost more.

      Troy, I’m NOT a fast typist. Two fingers, bible system – “seek and ye shall find”. That took me WAY longer than a hour. It only got posted faster because I already had it typed. It’s an excerpt from the next Update. Just had to extract it, move it from the other computer to the on-line one and zap it on here.

      Ed

      Ed Ashby
      Member
        Post count: 817

        Okay, here’s a ‘scoop’, Part of the next Update will have a section on how I apply bare shaft tuning. Since that portion of the Update is pretty much finished I’ll post it here.

        A well tuned Extreme FOC arrow requires that the dynamic spine be tuned to the specific bow AND SHOOTER; i.e. it’s something that only you can develop yourself; if you want to get good results. What this means is that you have to bare shaft tune the shaft’s dynamic spine to get the precise degree of actual deflection at launch that gives perfect paradox recovery. Only you can do that because it depends on more than just the bow used. How you hold the bow and how you shoot makes a difference. The pattern of your hand pressure on the bow is important. The quality of your release affects it; and so do things such as your follow-through after the shot.

        Bare shaft tuning Extreme FOC arrows is actually a very easy process. Many folks make it more difficult than it is, simply because they don’t seem to understand what they are trying to do, and they often try to mix different tuning methods. That adds layers of confusion in their mind; muddling the decision making process and leading to mistakes in tuning adjustments.

        First, understand what you can expect from a weak and strong dynamic spine. If you are right handed, a shaft with weak dynamic spine will strike to the right of your aiming point. That’s because the shaft bends too far around the bow’s riser at release, and is not stiff enough to flex back into its original alignment at the time it was released. A dynamic spine that’s too stiff does not bend around the bow riser enough, and it will fly to the left of where you were pointing it at the time of release. If you’re left handed those impact positions are reversed.

        If you are shooting off a fixed arrow rest a weak dynamic spine will also shoot lower than an arrow with the correct dynamic spine; and a dynamic spine too stiff will shoot high. That’s for the same reason as the left or right impact. We often speak of ‘arrow flex’ during paradox but it is actually arrow oscillation, with the flexion occurring in all planes. Thus the arrow not only bends around the riser, it also bends around the arrow shelf or arrow rest.

        Here’s the bare shaft dynamic spine tuning process I use, as simply stated as I can manage.

        1. Even if you normally shoot with your bow canted, do all bare shaft tuning with your bow held vertically. THIS IS IMPORTANT. If you cant your bow, strong-spine deflection then becomes ‘up and left’, and weak spine becomes ‘down and right’. Trying to separate up and down shooting errors from the spine’s influence is difficult when the bow is canted.

        2. The best target for bare shaft tuning dynamic spine is a straight vertical line. A strip of tape on a piece of cardboard works well. I set this to true vertical on a backstop, using a plumb bob. Aim all your shots to align with the tape, as close as you possible can. Try your best to keep your arrow aligned with the tape, left and right. Don’t be concerned about the up and down impact.

        3. When tuning dynamic spine, concern yourself ONLY with the left-right point of arrow impact in relation to the tape. Ignore any ‘nock kick’ (to either right or left). If the nocks consistently show way high or way low kick, adjust the nocking point of your string a bit to get them fairly level (up and down). For nocks too high, move your nocking point down, and vice versa.

        4. Start out with the total tip weight setup you want to use. For most carbon arrows a total tip weight of around 350 grains will get you well up into the Extreme FOC range. This can be a 100 grain brass insert with a 125 grain point on a 125 grain steel BH adaptor; or any other combination of component weights that adds up to the total weight you wish to use. My “normal” point setup for my hunting arrows is a 190 gr. point (to match the Grizzly), a 125 grain steel BH adaptor with a 100 grain brass insert; for a total point weight of 415 grains. If I use this on CE 350 Heritage shafts or Grizzly Stik Safari shafts, and it gives about 26% to 28% FOC. The Heritage and Grizzly Stik are fairly heavy shafts (in grains per inch). The lighter your shaft (in grains per inch) the higher FOC you’ll end up with for a given point weight. That’s because the shaft’s weight towards the rear will be less than for a higher-mass shaft. A tapered shaft also helps up the FOC. With this point weight on a lighter shaft, such as a Gold Tip Ultra-Light, the FOC is up in the Ultra-EFOC range; above 30%.

        5. Begin your bare shaft testing with a full length shaft. Start the testing from up close; about 12 to 15 yards. Shoot a group of shots and see where the group center is, in relation to your tape. It SHOULD be to the right (if you’re right handed). One thing you have to be on guard for here is that when the dynamic spine is WAY off, you can get false readings. These are commonly encountered when you first test, with the shaft still full length; especially the false strong spine impact. They are caused by the back of the shaft striking the riser, deflecting the arrows flight to the opposite direction from where the spine wants to take it. So, apply a bit of consideration of what you SHOULD be seeing initially. If it doesn’t show weak spine (impacting to the right) SUSPECT that the back end of the shaft is slapping your bow and go ahead and shorten the shaft a few times. Often the impact will suddenly jump from a false strong spine impact to a markedly weak spine impact; once the shaft’s rear stops slapping against the bow’s riser.

        If you shorten the shaft all you can at this close range and the impact is still showing weak spine (a right impact), then the only cure is to start over with a shaft having a stiffer static spine.

        6. From this close range, and assuming you’re not getting a false reading, your bare-shaft arrow should be impacting to the right side of the tape. Begin shortening your full length shaft in small increments. If the close-range dynamic spine is WAY weak I generally take off about ½” to 1″ at a time, cutting from the shaft’s rear end (to prevent having to remove the insert every time the shaft has to be cut), until the point of impact is getting a few inches from the tape. From there on, I shorten the shaft in 5mm increments – about 1/5 inch at a time. Stop shortening the shaft when the point of impact is still about 2″ right of the strip of tape. It’s important to not cross over to a strong spine impact. If you do that, the only cure is to add more point weight.

        [NOTE: All parallel shafts can be shortened from the rear, and you’ll not need to remove the inserts to cut the shaft. On tapered carbon shafts you’ll need to make the cuts from the front of the shaft. This requires that you remove the insert before making each cut.]

        7. Move back to 20 yards and repeat the process, again stopping when the point of impact shows about 2″ of right (weak spine) impact.

        8. Progressively move farther and farther back, repeating the process to as far a distance as you have faith in the validity of your group’s accuracy; for determining the left-right ‘group center’. I tune my bare shafts back to 40 meters, about 44 yards. At that distance I leave the bare shaft group’s center showing about 1 ½” to no more than 2″ of weak-spine (right) impact. Adding fletching will have a slight stiffening effect on the dynamic spine.

        9. Now fine tune your nocking point. Do this at fairly close range, about 10 yards, and on a target of uniform density (a fairly new foam-type target). If the nock kicks up on impact, move the string’s nocking point down; and vice versa. Get the arrows impacting with the nocks as straight (level, up and down) as you can.

        10. Next, make up some more shafts matching those you’ve tuned and fletch them up. Use ample, but not excessive, fletching size; just enough to be certain it will stabilize whatever broadhead you intend to be using later. Shoot several groups to confirm that the fletched shafts impact into the same group as your bare shafts. If you normally shoot your bow canted, then go ahead and shoot these groups that way.

        11. The final stage is to add broadheads onto matching fletched shafts and verify that they also impact the same as your bare shafts and the fletched field points.

        The one factor I didn’t mention in the tuning process is that you can also use the degree of centershot on your bow as a tuning aid. Building the riser out (giving it less ‘centershot’) will allow a weaker dynamic spine to tune correctly. When I apply this technique during tuning I simply add layers of masking tape until I get the right thickness. Once I’ve determined the correct amount I peal the tape off and measure the thickness and build the riser out that far. Often all that’s required is a thicker arrow plate.

        So far, when I’ve tuned the bare shafts this way I’ve yet to have the fletched arrows (both field points and broadheads) fail to match the flight the impact point for the bare shafts.

        Once I have the setup tuned this way I then tune the fletching to give the smallest fletching that will stabilize the broadhead under all shooting conditions. I prefer the A&A fletching pattern, which utilizes a turbulator forward of the fletching. Here’s the process I use to tune the A&A fletching, but the same process works for determining the minimum size for any fletching pattern. Just as when bare shaft tuning, finding the minimum amount fletching is a step by step process.

        1. Once you feel that you have the bare shaft tuned correctly, mount a matched-weight broadhead on one of the shafts. First use what you are absolutely certain is ample fletching to stabilize the broadhead and VERIFY that the fletched-shaft/broadhead has identical impact to the field-point tipped bare shaft. You can use any fletching pattern you like for this step.

        2. Once your shaft tuning is verified begin, switch to the A&A pattern on the broadhead tipped shaft, starting at about 5” length if you are using 3-fletch, or 4” if using 4-fletch. DO NOT add the turbulator yet. Shoot the arrow several times and check the flight stability.

        3. If all is well, begin to gradually decrease the length of the A&A fletchings until the point where you FIRST see a slight instability in the arrow’s flight. Be sure to shoot several shots before making a decision on the flight stability, and it helps if you can have another person also watching for flight instability too.

        4. Now add the turbulator and check to be sure the flight is again completely stable. If addition of the turbulator does not completely stabilize the arrow’s flight increase the fletching length by ¼” and check again, with the turbulator in place.

        Many factors affect what’s the minimum A&A fletching that will work FOR YOU. A big factor is quality of your release (mine’s poor). Other major factors are the type of broadhead (how much wind shear it generates) and the amount of FOC on the arrow and the shaft’s length. Your draw length on whatever length shaft you are using is also a factor. At a given amount of FOC, the longer the shaft the less fletching required; because of the lengthened rear steering arm. Your draw length vs. shaft length affects the point of maximum shaft flex upon release.

        5. Once you feel you have the fletching at the minimum size for stability there’s only one task remaining; you will need to check arrow flight on a windy day. When checking for flight in windy conditions you will want to take shots as many angles to the wind, but at a minimum check the arrow’s flight in a full cross-wind and both quartering with and quartering into the wind. I’ve not found any problem when using the high MA single blade broadheads, because of their very low wind shear factor, but many of the wide-narrow broadheads require an increase in fletching area to achieve flight stability in quartering wind conditions.

        This sounds like a lot of work, and it is, but it is a one time job for a given arrow setup. It’s analogous to a working up the very best handload for a rifle; and cheaper and easier to accomplish than finding the best rifle handload too!

        Ed

        Ed Ashby
        Member
          Post count: 817
          in reply to: Brace heigth #36393

          Troy, now that ain’t so. I remember your wife saying you NEVER listen to her!

          Ed

          Ed Ashby
          Member
            Post count: 817

            Glad to see you here Troy. This is the web site for folks serious about getting the most performance they can from their arrow setup, and your input will be a big plus.

            Ed

            Ed Ashby
            Member
              Post count: 817

              Handirifle, when you’re bare shaft tuning carbons don’t worry about the insert. Glue it in permanent and then shorten the shaft from the rear! To attach the inserts in carbons I: (1) rough up the inside of the shaft and the insert with any abrasive you like (I use a fine-cut chainsaw file inside the shaft); (2) clean the inside of the shaft and the insert thoroughly with alcohol and allow it to dry; (3) apply a thin coat of slow set epoxy to the shaft’s inner wall and to the insert and put the insert in. (I find it beneficial to screw a broadhead adaptor into the insert to keep the epoxy out of the insert’s threads, BUT BE SURE TO COAT THE BROADHEAD ADAPTOR’S THREADED SHANK WITH SOME LIGHT GREASE OR IT WILL BE THERE PERMINENT TOO); (4) store the shaft vertical until the epoxy is fully cured. (I have a small board with holes drilled that fit broadhead adaptors to hold the shafts vertical while the epoxy cries).

              DWC, for Ultra-EFOC I like Gold Tip Ultra-Lights. The Carbon Express shafts achieve EFOC easily, but you’re into really heavy total arrow weight if you take a CE all the way to the Ultra-EFOC level. The tapered shafts are great too, and easier to tune than the parallel shafts, but more costly.

              Ed

              Ed Ashby
              Member
                Post count: 817
                in reply to: Brace heigth #36354

                ReadyHawk wrote: In my opinion the bow will tell you when things are right.

                Them’s some wise words right there. The bows (and the arrows) tell us a lot, if we’re paying attenton.

                Ed

                Ed Ashby
                Member
                  Post count: 817

                  Handirifle, I sure understand money getting short. There was a time in my life that I don’t know how I would have made if it weren’t for squirrels, muskrats, fish and turtles!

                  Because I went through so many shafts doing the Study I was always on the lookout for a bargain. Keep prowling the web. Many places, such as Cabela’s, Bass Pro, etcetera, periodically offer free shipping, and keep poking around the bargain barns and caves for closeouts. One of my best buys came from there, on CE Ultra-Light shafts – and the shipping was free. I think those might have come from Archery Warehouse, but not certain.

                  What part of the country are you located in?

                  Ed

                  p.s. Mike, I still use a lot of mismatched arrows, some wood, some aluminum and some carbon, when I’m stump shooting, or just shooting to work on the muscles. I’ve yet to have a stump or target get away wounded because of a poorly placed hit!

                  Ed Ashby
                  Member
                    Post count: 817

                    I haven’t bought any new aluminum shafts in many, many years. I can’t get them to tune anywhere near as easily as carbon shafts at EFOC, and can’t get them to tune well at Ultra-EFOC.

                    To my way of thinking the best use for aluminum shafts today is probably as external footings over a carbon shaft, the way Kingwouldbe does. He’s essentially making a tapering compound shaft: aluminum outer fore shaft with a carbon rear shaft. I haven’t experimented with that type of setup to anything like the degree Kingwouldbe has, but he’s very knowledgeable on Ultra-EFOC and tuning. It’s likely a very good arrow setup, but my experience was that it took a lot more effort to get that type of arrow setup tuned than either a parallel or tapered carbon shaft.

                    Ed

                    Ed Ashby
                    Member
                      Post count: 817
                      in reply to: Tuffhead update #35772

                      Hope it helps you out. Having your broadhead ‘truly sharp’ is so very important, and I’ve seen so many folks hunting with broadheads that are not nearly as sharp as they should be. Lots of folks have showed me their ‘scary sharp’ broadheads and the scariest thing I see about them is how far they are from being ‘truly sharp’.

                      Ed

                      Ed Ashby
                      Member
                        Post count: 817

                        Handirifle, Because there are so many variables (bow performance level, type and quality of release you have, type and profile of arrow rest or shelf, type and weight of the bowstring and the degree of center shot are a few) there is NO chart that will give you the ‘right shaft’ for anyone’s bow. That applies to all shaft types and all point weights. Any chart is just a guideline to give you an approximate starting point for testing and tuning. That’s why Easton publishes a 32 page guide on tuning your arrow, for use AFTER you have referred to their charts and selected a ‘recommended starting point’ shaft. For reference, here’s the link to Easton’s tuning guide: http://www.eastonarchery.com/pdf/tuning_guide.pdf

                        The best guide in selecting a ‘starting place’ shaft is experience. Lacking that the next best thing is to ask folks and try to find someone shooting a setup as close to yours as possible and see what worked for them (with the point weight you want to use),then use that as your starting point. From there it’s a matter of tuning the arrow to YOUR bow, with YOU shooting it. If you happen to have a shop nearby that well sell individual shafts that’s another option for finding the correct shaft, and some suppliers sell ‘shaft assortments’ just for tuning purposes. You might also ask around and find someone with shafts they no longer use, or ones they tried that didn’t work out for their bow.

                        For what it’s worth, I find the tapered carbon shafts to have the widest range of point weights that they seem to tune with. I THINK this has to do with how they flex upon release, with more of the flexion occurring near the shaft’s rear, whereas the major flexion with a parallel shaft occurs nearer the center of the shaft’s length.

                        Ed

                        Ed Ashby
                        Member
                          Post count: 817
                          in reply to: Tuffhead update #35258

                          Brennan, I have both the KME broadhead sharpener and the KME knife sharpener. The broadhead sharpener works fine on double bevel broadheads but not on the single bevel heads. For single-bevel broadheads the knife sharpener is the one you want.

                          Here’s how I go about sharpening a single bevel broadhead, but it’s not a good process for anyone ‘sharpening challenged’. I can sharpen most anything by most any technique. My dad started me sharpening my own single blade Barlow pocket knife long before the first day I ever attended school, and sharpening seems so natural that I find it hard to understand how anyone can not be able to sharpen things.

                          I don’t use the KME for all of my sharpening, and the complete sharpening technique I use varies by the broadhead being sharpened. On a single-bevel BH the very first thing one must do is be sure the flat side of the edge (the side of the blade opposite the bevel) is truly flat. If it isn’t perfectly flat it must be made so, and it doesn’t matter how you achieve that. If there’s a lot of metal to remove I start on a metal belt sander or a curved tooth metal rasp then move to a series of diamond bench stones (course, medium, fine and extra fine) and then to a hard Arkansas bench stone.

                          The next step is to be sure that the single-bevel is uniform and is at 25 degrees. On some of the broadheads it’s good and others take a fair amount of work. If there’s a lot of metal to remove (such as when the original bevel is at other than 25 degrees) I resort to the same tools and process I used on the flat side of the edge.

                          Those first steps are the real work, and are critical to getting a truly sharp finished. If you’ve had to true up the flat edge and bevel you will already have reached the point of having a wire edge on the broadhead, or at least you should have.

                          This is the point that I move to the KME. Of course if the broadhead you’re sharpening already has a truly flat back edge and a correctly set bevel (as in a broadhead you’ve previously sharpened or one of the higher quality heads that comes correctly ‘trued up’) you don’t need to do all that before going to the KME, unless there’s a ‘ding’ or chip in the blade that needs removing. Don’t get me wrong, a chip or ding can be removed using the KME and, for someone who does find sharpening hard to accomplish I think they should do all the sharpening process (other than truing up and ‘dressing’ the flat side of the bevel) on the KME.

                          I basically use the KME for applying the final polished edge on my broadheads, freshening up the edge of a broadhead that was sharp but has been carried in a quiver a while, or re-sharpening a dulled, but not damaged edge. What I like about the KME is that it will apply that final edge at a precise angle.

                          Even though I may have taken the beveled edge all the way to a hard Arkansas bench stone I generally drop back to the medium steel or stone on the KME as a starting point. My KME knife sharpener stays set at 25 degrees. Using light pressure I gently hone the bevel only enough to be certain that it is precise along the entire length of the blade. As soon as I know the bevel is true along the length of the blade I go to the fine diamond steel and polish out the edge. Then I move to the extra fine diamond steel and again polish out the edge. Next I go to the black (surgical) Arkansas and again polish out the edge.

                          At this point I remove the broadhead from the KME and, alternately working from one side of the edge to the other with the black Arkansas stone, and using very light pressure, I remove the wire edge which will have formed along the edge. Then it’s back into the KME for an edge polish with the ruby stone.

                          Once I’m satisfied with the polished bevel off the ruby stone I flip the blade over (still in the KME) and using EXTREMELY light pressure with the ruby stone, and working at the set 25 degrees, I make JUST A COUPLE OF STROKES ALONG the flat side. Flip back to the bevel side and take just a couple of light strokes, then back to the flat side and again take JUST A COUPLE MORE EXTREMELY LIGHT STROKES along the edge. This seems to remove some microscopic wire edge. From there I lightly strop the edge on the ‘fine’ side of my razor strop. The razor strop I use is double sided, made from horsehide, and I bought it in a second hand shop about 50 years ago. That’s my process. It might sound time consuming but, other than initial truing on some broadheads, really isn’t.

                          Again, I must stress that those who have trouble with sharpening things are better off to do the entire process (other than truing the flat side on a single bevel edge) on something like the KME. The biggest reasons I’ve seen for people not being able to sharpen an edge are: (1) not maintaining a constant bevel and (2) not putting in enough time with the courser grit steels or stones. Using the KME on the bevel cures #1 and understanding how to use grits will cure #2. The finer grits are intended to polish out the edge, not to sharpen the edge. You should establish a sharp, wire edge along the full length of the cutting edge with the course steel or stone BEFORE moving to any of the finer grits.

                          So, if you’re using the KME to re-sharpen a broadhead that you have shot you need to check the flat side first (polish it up a bit, working flat to the face of the blade) then place the blade in the KME and, using a COURSE steel or stone, work on the bevel side until you raise a tiny wire edge along the entire length of the blade, THEN progressively proceed through the finer stones and then finish the edge as described above.

                          Sharpening is a hard process to describe so I hope my explanation is clear enough to understand but, finished in this manner you end up with an edge that will not just cut hair, you can actually shave curls off an individual strand of hair, without cutting through the hair – or shave your face as close as a straight razor.

                          Ed

                          Ed Ashby
                          Member
                            Post count: 817
                            in reply to: Tuffhead update #34518

                            Steve, you’re not the only one waiting for a great design, 300 grain glue-on broadhead!

                            Ed

                            Ed Ashby
                            Member
                              Post count: 817
                              in reply to: Tuffhead update #33420

                              My pleasure, Scout. Glad it was of help.

                              Ed

                              Ed Ashby
                              Member
                                Post count: 817
                                in reply to: Tuffhead update #33369

                                Scout, I think the profile of the Tanto tip will be just fine, so won’t be altering the tip’s profile. If, after using the BH’s for a while, I see any problem with the tip’s profile I will alter it, and I’ll be sure to let folks know the ‘why and how’.

                                You can bet that I’ll be touching up all the edges to get them all as sharp as I possibly can, and that includes the Tanto tip. I have a fine ruby stone that happens to be just the right size to work with a KME sharpener and gives as fine an edge as I can get with a series of water stones, with a lot less work. A ruby stone isn’t for everyone. A 4” x 1” x 3/8” ruby stone, in ‘fine’, cost $107.00, last time I looked. If anyone’s interested here’s a link: http://www.ottofrei.com/store/home.php?cat=2597

                                Since I want Ultra-EFOC I’ll be using 125 grain steel BH adapters and filling the rest of the Tuffhead’s long internal ferrule’s taper with something. There will undoubtedly be some experimentation but I’ll probably start with with a slow cure epoxy or JB Weld as a fill material. If I feel that I need to up the weight even more I’ll mix in some Brownell’s atomized steel (powdered steel) into the epoxy.

                                Ed

                                Ed Ashby
                                Member
                                  Post count: 817

                                  Handirfle, the 650 grain lower limit for total arrow mass/weight (the heavy bone threshold) holds for all draw weight bows. What the data shows is that for all broadheads, of all types, there is an abrupt jump in the frequency of penetrating heavy bone when the arrow mass reaches approximately 650 grains. This is a result of the TIME of the “impulse of force”, or how long the arrow is able to keep pushing against the bone. This does not mean that the frequency of heavy bone penetration is the same for all broadheads, or that it is the same for ‘like arrows’ shot from different draw weight bows. All it means is that, regardless of the draw weight of the bow or the broadhead used, in every test series the number of arrows able to penetrate a heavy bone showed an abrupt, marked increase when the arrow mass was at or above the 650 grains. In the Study, FOR THE BEST ARROW SETUPS TESTED the frequency of breaching heavy bone jumped to 100% when the arrow mass was above 650 grains, and this held for all bows used in testing, from 40# upward.

                                  As for the heavy broadhead not affecting arrow flight I’m sure the reference is to a tuned arrow. I’ve found much the same. With well-tuned arrows, identical in all aspects except for the degree of FOC, the EFOC and Ultra-EFOC arrows recover from paradox faster and show a flatter trajectory than the matching normal-FOC arrow. They also show less wind drift when shot in high cross-wind or quartering wind conditions.

                                  Yes, the heavier the point the stiffer the shaft needs to be. However, a stiffer shaft does not necessarily mean a heavier shaft. In the Ultra-EFOC testing I used mostly Gold Tip Ultra-Lite shafts, which are as stiff as other GT shafts, but lighter in weight. The new Momentum shafts, from Alaska Bowhunting Supply, are another example of a lighter shaft being stiffer than its heavier counterparts. In fact, when trying to increase FOC into its upper levels it’s best to use the lightest weight shaft as you can, shifting as much of the arrow’s total weight to the point as possible.

                                  Hope that helps,
                                  Ed

                                Viewing 15 posts - 481 through 495 (of 781 total)