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in reply to: Fawn Creek Campground, Libby MT #61870
I had hoped and even planned to make it to the Primitive get-together at that same location next month. Alas, cabin repairs took priority, travel money and free time. Looks like I’ll be going nowhere this summer, again. We need to support our western shoots and banquets, and try to “grow” them as there are so few compared to the rest of the country. –seldom seen dave
in reply to: ABS Ashby Broadhead #60437Thanks for the report, Jason. While my own testing is by no means scientific or all-inclusive, of the heads I have tested I’ve coined three categories that I believe are worth considering. All three meet most Ashby standards for maximizing bone and flesh penetration (high mechanical advantage, hard steel 50R minimum, two-blade single-bevel, substantial weight):
Best broadhead on the market: ABS Ashby
Best value for the money: Brown Bear
Best broadhead for the least money: ConcordLast year I used all three heads on my bull elk — one for the kill and two test shots into the still-warm animal, purposely through ribs and scapula. All three performed beautifully with no damage to heads.
That said, this year — unless backyard testing finds a flaw — I plan to shoot the new, redesigned 200-grain Grizzly El Grande for elk. So many great heads out there and getting better, thanks to Doc Ashby. Like bows, we are in the happy situation that there are so many “bests” to choose from that there’s plenty of room for individual choice. My 2 cents. dp
Matt — You don’t give us much info to go on, but assuming a longbow or recurve and all hunting situations, few will argue that a bow quiver is the best. Get one that straps on with rubber straps. Bolt-on quivers are almost obsolete and generally had problems. The kind with heavy rubber plugs that slip over the ends of the limbs require you to unstring the bow to add or remove the quiver, and can alter shooting characteristics and even lead to bow breakage. Shrew, for example, recommonds against using them. Back quivers are noisy, fill with rainwater, snow and limb trash, interfere with wearing a pack and really complicate sneaking through brush etc. Side quivers also get hung up on brush and make it hard to climb a tree or even sit on the ground, etc. Individual bowhunters will have different opinions, depending on their circumstances. I am offering this advice as the best all-purpose quiver with the most advantages and least disadvantages. You should be able to get a good one for $75 or so, and there was a recent thread here about making your own. I shoot very light bows and also like the extra weight for stability. Others don’t like the extra weight but I’m guessing they’re mostly shooting heavy-handled recurves. My longbows all weight less than a pound naked. Geeze I’m longwinded tonight! Better to walk the dogs. dp
in reply to: A few things I've learned #57438Hey you guys know your stuff! Great tips, all, and none I would disagree with. This is the sort of grassroots info that all experienced outdoorsmen/women have, in one form and another, and should share. I have nothing to add right now but am an eager student! Keep it coming and for fun, let’s say the total can’t amount to more than 20 pounds including pack weight (for a day hunt). As I get older I “need” to learn to carry less and get the weight down. Yet every year it seems to cree up even more. In large part that’s because I always assume I’m going to succeed (sooner or later) and I prepare for it. I guess that’s my tip here, after all, if only in a broadly general way: I’m frequently shocked and disappointed at how many hunters with enough experience to know better, hunt deep into the backcountry chasing elk or other big game, and maybe carry one knife, no game bags, no pack suitable for hauling meat, no sharpener, no flashlight, etc. If they are so convinced they won’t make a kill that they feel safe not carrying the tools of success in order to save a bit of weight, well, maybe they should take up lawn bowling instead, where they have to carry nothing but a gin-tonic. Meat is wasted, trophies are ruined, all is lost just to lighten the load a bit. On the other hand we have the “gear hogs” who are gullible enough to believe all the incredible BS put out by advertisers who tell us me “must” have this and that and the other thing too, and an ATV to haul it all on, and a trailer for the ATV, and a Big Rig to haul the ATV trailer, etc., geeze such a world. Thanks, dp
in reply to: DO THEY PUNCH HARD ENOUGH!!! #55277Good calls, Reb. You’ll love the way those Eclipse fly and cut! dp
in reply to: Please introduce yourselves, I'll start #55271Wombat, uh I mean Gorbin, thanks for explaining, sort of, your most interesting avatar. Looks happy, whatever it is or was. 😀 dp
in reply to: DO THEY PUNCH HARD ENOUGH!!! #55024Reb — you really should read Ashby’s report on mechanical broadhead failures and inefficiency. The best of them perform poorly compared to almost any fixed blade. In some states they are outlawed for big game, and limited in others. I think they should be outlawed for all big game period. And I can hardly think of anything more aesthetically incompatible with traditional bowhunting than mechanical broadheads. Not scolding, just advising. Even though I’ve been involved in every Ashby article to appear in TBM in recent years, darned if I can recall if the one on mechanical heads has already run or is pending publication. When Robin comes back, she will know. Meanwhile it’s in the Ashby library here and definitely worth a read. Among the most successful hog hunters we know is Kingwouldbe, as per the photos above. He’s used lots of heads over the years but seems to have settled on the good old Grizzly El Grande 190-grain single bevel as the most effective on even hogzillas. Keep it simple, is a good rule to follow in trad bowhunting as elsewhere in life. 😀 dp
in reply to: broadheads #53815I concur with Thomas. Basically what we’re talking about here is a combo of steel thickness, esp. toward the tip, and steel hardness. I have never had a STOS fail on me in an elk, but recently have moved to serious single-bevels like Brown Bear, Concord, and ABS Ashby, all of which are built to take it and exceedingly difficult to damage under realistic conditions. For instance, last year after killing a mature bull with a Brown Bear, I took penetration test shots with Ashby and Condord heads at an angle through shoulder blade and heavy ribs. All three heads performed beautifully and remained super sharp and unblemished. That said, I’m currently excited about the new 200-grain El Grande, which will be the biggest head I’ve ever shot. They are double-layer really hard steel and I sure wouldn’t want to be on the receiving end of one. But beware that the same company also makes the Wolverine, which in 125 is such a fragile head that I believe it should be taken off the market. Darn things are so thin at the tips that they break and bend even in 3D foam and once cost me an elk on a scapula hit that didn’t even penetrate the bone but broke off and fell out. Which is off your original question a bit, but it’s hard to discuss broadheads without discussing what has and has not worked in our personal experience. For deer, frankly, you can get away with almost any good broadhead that’s sharp, though under no circumstances would I personally use a serrated blade. dp
in reply to: HOW SHARP IS SHARP ENOUGH? #53806It’s so strange that some of our most informed and vital members, like Daniel, Doc Ashby, Kingwouldbe and Sharpster for examples, are either here every day in full force, or else disappear entirely for months at a time. Ed is plagued with serious medical problems, while Daniel (I hear) is massively busy in his profession, as is Sharpster/Ron Swartz. Still, it sure would be nice if these and other experts in their fields could check in with us monthly or so, as does Fletcher. I miss ’em. :?:(
in reply to: Technology Kills Tradition? #53798Well said, Patrick! I could jump back in here again but I won’t, as you guys are covering all the angles and views quite thoroughly, and better yet civily with mutual respect, no matter disagreement. I agree that what a person chooses for equipment should be what brings that person the most pleasure and satisfaction. Technology, materials … none of it matters — until we come to hunting season allocation and equity in an increasingly overcrowded hunting world with shrinking habitat and happy hunting grounds. That’s where it matters a great deal. dave
in reply to: IS BIGGER BETTER! #52618Lots of fine points here but in general, the smaller feathers you can get away with, the better. For one thing, big feathers slow flight. For another, they add weight to the back of the shaft that lowers FoC. Dr. Ashby has shown — and countless others including myself have confirmed independently — that the more FoC you have, the smaller feathers you can get by with and still have excellent flight. Particularly with carbons you should not have to use 5-1/2″ feathers. If you aren’t getting good flight with standard 5″ feathers, you have a tuning problem. If you enjoy “playing with your gear” as many of us do, I’d recommend starting by seeing how much weight you can get on the front of your arrows and maintain good flight. Then turn to seeing how much feather you can remove without losing accuracy. It’s fun, dp
in reply to: What is the right pull???? #5260550# should be fine for muleys. It’s marginal for elk since their hides and bones are so very much heavier and their bodies at least twice as wide. I believe it can be done and in fact will be hunting elk with 53# this year, but the ethical onus is heavy on us who shoot lighter bows at heavy game to do everything possible to assure lethal penetration even when shot placement is not perfect, as a great many times it will not be. In short, the lighter the bow, the heavier the arrow and higher FoC we need to use, with a proven two-blade head. My advice is to try your set-up on mule deer and see what sort of penetration you get. And if you can handle it, try a test shot through the dead animal’s scapula, at an angle, to see what you get … before going after elk. Also, the speed and thrust of a given weight bow can vary radically, so that poundage alone is no longer the most accurate guide. For example, I have straight wood longbows at 55 that shoot at around 150 fps while a Shrew d/r longbow of the same weight will get close to 170. Lots to consider, but it’s all fun if your attitude is right. dp
in reply to: How much broadhead weight on my setup? #52599Field points are cheap and we should all have an assortment just for experimentation. Just keep moving up the line — 145, 160, 190 etc. if possible — to see what happens. My el cheapo CE 45/70 shafts shoot flawlessly out of a 55# pound bow with up to 450 grains up front, head and insert, with standard 3×5″ feathers. In fact they shoot better with more weight up front. Same with woodies except the spine range is far narrower. dp
in reply to: Robin Hood #52049Tom — I just checked out the site. Amazing they can do that and make a profit. You know anyone who has one of their products? A 50# longbow for $80, with a one-year guarantee? I think I spent close to that much just for materials for every wood bow I’ve built, not to mention shop tools and machines, sandpaper, etc. I’d love to hear more from anyone with experience with these folks. Dave
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