[Ireland]

in reply to: Appropriate discussion? #24532

kingwouldbee wrote: Here is another one of those bionic deer, this shot is even farther back in softer tissue.

The truth of the matter is deer are tough, and have a vary strong will to live.

As can be seen from these pic’s, shot placement is only “ONE” ingredient to the success of a clean kill.

Apparently both of the bow hunters made good shots, with bad equipment, there shots where both killing shots, there equipment failed, the broadhead failed to penetrate to a depth that would make for a clean kill.

EQUIPMENT FAILED NOT SHOT PLACEMENT.

Thank you for posting the two incredible pic’s of deer walking around with arrows still sticking in them from “good” shot placement angles. Compare those deer to the photo’s sent by Sharpster in a post a few weeks back “Broadhead Sharpness and Bloodtrails”. I believe the hunter used an 810 grain arrow and an Ashby inspired set-up. The end result was far different…

Ireland

[Ireland]

in reply to: New Ashby Study update posted. #20344

David Petersen wrote: Dr. Ashby’s latest study update has just been posted and provides yet more fascinating insight into the workings of FOC and other factors on penetration and lethality. In Ed’s words: “In Part 6 we’ll try to quantify FOC’s effect on penetration and examine some other implications of the FOC testing.” Check it out at https://www.tradbow.com/members/programs/archives.cfm?StartRow=32&show=yes&dept=56&sort=date&ddesc=Ashby%20Library. Or go to the end of the last page of the Ashby Library.

I look forward to informed discussion of this material among fellow Ashby students, esp. now that the Doc is back online and can participate. Dave p

Try this experiment…time yourself and see how long it takes you to read Dr. Ashby’s most recent study. If you are like me, I AWAYS GO BACK and re-read it again and again. It takes some time doesn’t it? I can’t imagine how much time Dr. Ashby has devoted in the original research, the collection of the data, the writing of the study, the graphs, etc., etc. It is truly mind-boggling when you think of the time he has invested for all of us.

I for one, truly appreciate his efforts and hard work.

Thank you Dr. Ashby!!!!

Ireland

[Ireland]

in reply to: Where do you get your tradional supplies from #20305

gidaddy911 wrote: If you are in Colorado, Tom and the boys at Rocky Mountain Specialty Gear (RMS Gear) are great. Great selection of bows and equipment to include maintenance and they are friendly and professional. They are very passionate about traditional archery and bow hunting.

I would also like to highly recommend Rocky Mountain Speciality Gear (RMSG). Check out their web site. Huge selection of bows to chose from. Tom and son’s Tommy and Danny are the best.

Check them out…

Ireland

[Ireland]

in reply to: Appropriate discussion? #13742

Dr. Ed Ashby wrote: Well, it’s taken a while but I’m finally where I can devote some time back on line, at least for a few days. If all goes well I’ll be traveling for a bit after 6 January, but will try to check in whenever there is an opportunity. For now I have to catch up on all the postings here.

The down time has permitted me to do some more work on the 2008 testing information, and the Part 6 Update should be posted soon. How much penetration do you gain for every 1 percent increase in EFOC/Ultra-EFOC? If arrow FOC is increased how much can arrow weight be decreased without a loss in the amount of penetration? The 2008, Part 6 Update has what the Study data indicates.

Ed

Dr. Ashby,

Very much looking forward to seeing Part 6 posted…Thanks again for your hard work in providing all of us with great research we can use in the field.

Merry Christmas,

Ireland

[Ireland]

in reply to: Is this enough to kill a buffalo? #10402

wTk wrote: I have been asked to shoot a buffalo for a friend. They are planning to butcher it and in the past they have had trouble with the police for shooting a gun to put them down. The pens are at the edge of the city limits so they wanted to know if I would use my bow to kill it. I know this isn’t a hunt but before accepting their offer I want to be sure I can make a clean kill. I’d be using 28 1/2″ carbons with a 200 gr internal footing and a 150 gr magnus 1 with a 100 gr steel insert. This gives me a FOC of over 30% and an arrow weight of 675gr. I’d be shooting that out of my 55# longbow. So do you think that is an acceptable setup.

Perfect set-up…go for it

Ireland

[Ireland]

in reply to: 40 pound draw weight for Deer #58537

handirifle wrote: Thanks for the feedback. I just re-read an old TBH magazine article on women using light bows, and how effective they have been. seems like always, it a matter of range and placememnt.

You might want to read the most recent Dr. Ashby studies. I think you will find them very informative.

Ireland

[Ireland]

in reply to: Dressing Warm #55185

Crookedstick wrote: Oh, almost forgot. If I am planning on a long walk to my spot coupled with a long sit, I carry another set of Under Armor and change that layer as soon as I get to my spot.

If I were to simply still hunt all day without stand hunting, I would just ditch the Mackinaw and adjust the layers.

Bernie,
Thanks for the GREAT tips…How about some other folks…
Ireland

[Ireland]

in reply to: For those going to Africa #53106

Cottonwood wrote: Limblover thanks, and here is another link from:

https://www.huntingreport.com/worldupdate.cfm?articleid=448

Thanks Cottonwood for your assistance in helping other hunters. I appreciate your time and efforts.

Ireland

[Ireland]

in reply to: For those going to Africa #52129

donthomas wrote: I’m curious about the source of this information. Customs rarely checks bags in transit. Is this confirmed fact or rumor? Don

Not my post, but I will assist. I read about the above on the Alaskan Bowhunting web site. Contact ABS and possibly they will discuss details.

Ireland

[Ireland]

in reply to: Appropriate discussion? #51977

2blade wrote: [quote=Ireland]
Go to the Alaskan Bowhunting Supply web site. Read “Speed Kills”. They have three Ashby studies which will help answer your questions you have asked above.

Ireland

Thanks Ireland, I looked all over for that article but am unable to find it. Any way, I suppose that even a 550gr arrow would out penetrate a 450 gr no matter what the speed?

I have sent you a PM…

Ireland

[Ireland]

in reply to: Appropriate discussion? #48934

2blade wrote: I got a question for someone, maybe the good Doc will reply?

Ok two different setups. One is an arrow that weighs 650 grs with 25% foc moving at 170 fps with a single bevel head.

The second is a 500 gr arrow with 19% foc moving at 260 fps with a single bevel head.

My question is, does that extra 90 fps compensate any for the lack of 150 grs of arrow weight as far as penetration goes?

thanks

Go to the Alaskan Bowhunting Supply web site. Read “Speed Kills”. They have three Ashby studies which will help answer your questions you have asked above.

Ireland

[Ireland]

in reply to: Appropriate discussion? #48865

Fletcher wrote: Quote: shooting a 62″ Martin Hatfield 55# … draw 28″… shafts are 2016s tipped with a 125gn Wensel Woodsman … shaft, minus the broadhead, is 31.25″.

Problems with his set-up:
1. According to the Easton Arrow Selection Chart, he should be shooting a 2219,2315, or a 2415 arrow. The 2016 arrow he is shooting is for a bow in the poundage range of 29-34 pounds. He can attempt to tune this set-up all day long but will never get good arrow flight. I personally would recommend he shoot the 2219 arrow if he stays with aluminum.”

The current Easton charts are WAY off for recurves and longbows and very different from the charts of the 70’s and 80’s when aluminum was king. I have no idea as to why Easton has changed their charts, but today they are confusing and worthless at best.

A 2016 has an AMO spine of 59 lb, same today as 30 years ago. It will be weak for a 55 lb Hatfield,esp at 31.25″; a 2018 or 2117 would be better and would allow a litte extra point weight, a good thing. Shorter would help, too. He would need a brick on the front to get a 2219 to tune.

“He would need a a brick on the front to get a 2219 to tune”.

That is why in my post I suggested he choose a 200 grain Grizzly El Grande or Abowyer Brown Bear with a 100-125 adapter and 100 grain brass insert.

Contact Easton and they will explain why they changed their charts. Years of testing and data along with what they saw arrows actually doing on super slow motion video resulted in the changes.

Ireland

[Ireland]

in reply to: First EFOC Deer Down #44222

ralphs wrote: After non-recovery of my first hit on a buck with the trad bow,(a little high in the kill zone) I’ve had to rethink my entire arrow setup. I’ve read much of the Doc’s studies and am convinced that low FOC(12.30%) was the major factor in not recovering my buck. Had I read the Doc’s studies before… I beleive my experience would be different. I’m shooting 50# with a 29″ draw and 31″ arrow and a 150 gr Woodsman. I’ll experiment by adding a 50 or 100 gr insert.Total arrow weight will be 535 gr or 585 gr. My calculations (estimated) show I should get close to or exceed 20% FOC. I know that arrow flight is really important and from what I read this should not be too much of an issue with a 5″ flecthing Any suggestions??? Learning everyday and appreciate any help.

Have Tom-Wisconsin share his set-up with you. Can’t do much better than what Tom is presently using. He has posted it several times. How about one more time on this thread Tom?

Ireland

[Ireland]

in reply to: Shot Placement Question #31064

DaveT wrote: The deer was shot on the left side. I am thinking a 30 degree or less quarter. I didn’t actually think he was quartered hard enough to get the front shoulder but his leg might have been back. I read the thread that Ireland suggested and this is indeed a possibility. The arrow of the deer in those pics was a little higher than my shot and not angling down. I’m thinking though the Doc’s explanation of the arrow skipping is a possibility and thus killing the momentum. I have shot deer before hitting the off side front shoulder and it makes a far louder noise than this did and also seems to do allot of damage. The arrow acted more like now that I think of it like some just halted the momentum…it also was at a shallower angle than I was in up the tree leading me to believe I got a skip. I’m thinking it somehow now hit a high rib at an awkward angle and changed the trajectory of the arrow. This arrow set up I have is normally pretty devastating on anything it hits so this is why I am so surprised and confused on this outcome. I guess I need to get better at making myself aim at the lower 1/3 when from a treestand and hopefully avoiding these high hits altogether if possible.

Thanks so much for the input guys and good luck to all the rest of the season.

Dave,

If you are like me, the first thing you consider is “changing your set-up” (ie different broadhead, more FOC,etc, etc). You have a great set-up Dave, I would not change a thing…

Ireland

[Ireland]

in reply to: Shot Placement Question #29943

DaveT wrote: Guys,

Not sure where to post this one but since I was using a high EFOC arrow this is as good as any. I shot a very nice 8pt whitetail this past weekend while hunting So IL. Arrow set up is a 735 grain AD Traditional 25% EFOC (at least). I am using a 200 grain Grizzly BH. It is a great arrow combo and shooting a 55lb Black Widow longbow. Anyway long story short buck came in pretty rutted up after a doe had passed by a few minutes before. I was hunting in a loc on stand about 14 ft up max. At 16 yards the buck quartered and I shot. This all happened very fast and the buck actually appeared pretty broadside but must have been quartered harder than I thought since I hit it about half back in the rib cage about 3 inches above the centerline and the arrow stopped dead. I have shot completely through big hogs with this set up and was surprised that I did not get an exit at all. I did hit the deer a little higher than I like to but arrow was angling down and forward. Since it stopped with about half the arrow hanging out I guess I hit the far leg or shoulder bone and stopped. I have trailed high lung hits with no exit so wasn’t thrilled but felt good about the shot that it would do the trick. The arrow stayed in the deer as it ran off and it really moved out when shot.

Waited 2 hours and came back with my buddies to look. I was expecting to not find much blood but we were actually able to follow a decent blood trail for almost half a mile into a dense cedar thicket. Looked to be some decent lung blood at times as well. Deer never bedded down and never found the arrow. Lost the blood there and it just stopped so I think it might have doubled back. Anyway never found blood again and rain came in heavy that night.

Anyway anybody have any insight into what might have happened? I’m thinking one lung but can’t for the life of me figure out what happened. The arrow stayed in the deer I presume the whole time and I know from past experience this freaks them out so I guess he just kept moving and never bedded. Also since I the arrow stayed in it might have kept the lung from collapsing.

I am obviously sick about this and hate it when this type of thing happens. This is why I have really tried to take all of the Doc’s research into selecting my arrow and BH set up. Whenever something like this happens though I do try my very best to learn from it and I just can’t seem to figure this one out. Any help from you guys would be appreciated.

Dave,

Please read “Broadhead Sharpness and Blood Trails” in this forum. That hunter got very poor penetration also, but his deer went down on the spot. Read what Dr. Ashby had to say about it. Your situation is not the same, but some similarities do exist. I think you have a dead deer within 150 yards of where you “lost” your blood. Good luck…

Ireland

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