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in reply to: Arrow confused #8648
Red Beard – I could count all the big game I’ve killed with archery equipment on my fingers and toes, so like the other 99% of the people who post on these sites, I’m an “armchair expert”.
Here is what I do know from history.
1. Traditional bowmen have always seemed to favor a heavier tip weight than compounders(especially recently), and heavier arrows.
2. Arrows with an FOC of 10%-15% and around 10gr/lb of draw weight have been effectively and efficiently blowing thru big game since Pope and Young.
3. I have yet to read about any of the other big boys of traditional bowhunting dropping their proven arrow combinations to chase the “magical” EFOC.
So, with no disrespect towards Dr. Ashby or anyone who “chooses” to chase the EFOC, it seems to me that as long as you follow the long proven guidelines stated in #2 above, tune your bow/arrow combination for good arrow flight, use sharp broadheads, and pick your shots, then history has long proven you should be fine.
I have read Dr. Ashby’s studies and think they are valid and useful(many thanks for your dedication and allowing us to learn from them), but they are just ONE way, not the ONLY way to responsibly hunt big game. And, as valid as they may be, they are only one small part of the overall recovery of game animals. If you are ONLY looking to maximize your penetration then by all means go for it. But, as we have all seen, you don’t HAVE to shoot an EFOC arrow to get pass thru shots on game, or bust bone. Fred Eichler busted a shoulder bone of a moose, and recovered it, with his #54 bow and 500gr arrows with 125gr head.
I’m sure there are going to be those who disagree. That’s fine, but before you bash me, prove me (or I should say, prove history) wrong.
Respectfully Abner.in reply to: Appropriate discussion? #57634You are right. I, and everyone else not shooting the kind of equipment you shoot, should quit bow hunting. There that should satisfy you. This has been a hoot, but I’m out.
in reply to: Appropriate discussion? #57523I love it! If you read my post, you will find that I agree with, and practice, Dr. Ashby’s studies (15-20%FOC is pretty high when compared to what most are shooting these days). My point is, it has gotten to the point where some are now saying that if you DON’T use EFOC arrows, a single bevel broadhead, and an #60 bow, you should not be allowed in the deer woods and history has well proven that it is not the case.
Richie – I’m not sure what you mean by this statement.
“If you DO choose to use the bow/arrow weaponry that is factually shown to NOT be the most lethal then say that, like you mean it.”
Should I have said it like this. I’M SHOOTING MY #50 RECURVE WITH 500GR.,15-20%FOC ARROWS, AND DOUBLE BEVELED HEADS AT DEER DANG IT!
Is that better? From a well tuned bow/arrow combination, that’s all you need. History has proven that many, many times. Shot placement and a well tuned arrow with a sharp broadhead will trump anything else every time.What about the shot that lands for far to the rear? There is just as much room for failure in that direction. In fact, there is a whole bunch more deer in that direction than to far forward. All the EFOC in the world will not help in a gut shot. (Correct me if I’m wrong Dr. Ashby)
Bottom line, Yes, I believe that a higher FOC arrow, OUT OF A PROPERLY TUNED bow will help with penetration on a large bone hit. I can’t prove it myself, but Dr. Ashby’s studies can. However, there are SOOO many things that can go wrong with a shot after you release the arrow that I think I will just do my best to pick my shots, put the arrow where it is supposed to be, and hope the animal cooperates. We will never be able to eliminate all the variables. Bone penetration is just one.in reply to: Appropriate discussion? #56405I’m going to get BASHED for this one! While I greatly appreciate Dr. Asby’s studies(I shoot for about 15-20% FOC), I feared this would eventually happen. We have with this post gone from high FOC arrows will help with penetration on heavy boned animals like elk/moose/Asian buff, to you need EFOC arrows with single edge broadheads or you will not be able to consistently kill deer. I totally agree with J.Wesbrock. A good old fashioned standard FOC arrow that is WELL TUNED, from a bow of adequate poundage, 45#-up, is more than enough for deer. I would have to argue that a poorly tuned high FOC arrow would not have fared much better in the above failures. We need to keep it real guys. Shot placement, well tuned equipment, and sharp broadheads, will go a lot further than just adding a ton of weight to the front of your arrow. Have at me boys!
in reply to: Is this safe? #56384I have never heard of dipping them in boiling water. I wouldn’t. One of the benefits of the newer wraps is that all you have to do is peel the wrap off and the feathers/vanes come with it. Just find the edge and unwrap them.
in reply to: Bow Storage (sorry for the repeat) #52988I agree with Dave P. That is how I hang my bows also, from a peg. I have heard you can leave glass laminated bows braced all the time, and know of several at the bow shop that have been braced for years and still shoot fine, but I still unstring mine if I am not going to shoot them for a week or so.
in reply to: Four wheelers… #50767I have no problem with four wheelers driving the roads, I even use them to my advantage at times. (Their noise, not riding on one) I do have a huge problem with the way most use them in my area. I think they are one of the worst things that has happened to hunting in the last fifteen years. They should be made to stay in their OHV areas and the roads. Nowhere else.:evil:
in reply to: Which state for whitetail tags? #10835Thanks guys – I had no idea there were so many options. I will be looking into your states for next year. Sounds like a great way to pass the winter nights.
in reply to: Cock feather orientation #63930I can’t say for sure, but I have read so many times of guys that swear that one way or the other is the best that I really don’t think it matters. I have tried it both ways and really can’t see any difference. But,…I’m not the best shot out there so maybe it’s just me.
in reply to: Need a new hunting recurve any suggestions? #63926Really, I don’t think you will get any opinions on the best bow here on TB. We as a lot seem to kind of keep to ourselves. LOL.. LOL 😆 😆 😆
in reply to: Blackie tried to join me in my treestand #51522😆 😆 😆
in reply to: Nugent gets karma-lized! #40798I don’t know…Is it just me, or do ya’ll just want to say, Dave P just tell us how you REALLY feel.:lol: 😆 😆
I’m 100% with you Dave. Great article in BH mag by the way.
However, I do agree with King in that Calif. has some laws that are only in place because our state gov. is fully opposed to hunting and would like to see it stopped. It’s a bit frustrating at times, but living here and hunting here means that we follow them or pay the price. I watched the video on Ted N posted earlier. What a joke. He is not what I would want my kids looking up to as a hunter.
For what it’s worth, I like to commend all involved in this post. It is one that could have went south quickly, but didn’t.in reply to: A Question of Draw Weight #20572A decade ago I shot a custom Bighorn that was #62@27″. Looking back, I think the higher poundage was the reason I got out of traditional archery and sold it. A few years later, when I just couldn’t stand it any longer, I bought a good recurve at #50. That seems about right for me now and is plenty for the animals I hunt.
in reply to: Bear S/S Super RazorHeads…thoughts??? #20321I think they are awesome. They are about all I shoot. They are strong and fly straight. I prefer to shoot the bleeders in them, but even as a two blade, I can’t imagine any broadhead outperforming them to the extent that it would make any difference on game. I shoot broadheads off and on all year, so I go thru quite a few. Whenever I get low there are always some for sale on e-bay or some where. I use a simple two oil stone block designed at an angle for two blade heads. Without much effort, I can get them very, very sharp. It’s one of the reasons I like them so much. Super sharp, strong, and straight flying. What else do you need!8)
in reply to: Broadhead Swap #12838Thanks Trapper Dave, but I’m not really a “collector”. I just want the one to finish off my display. Thanks
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