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Ah geeze, Buzzy — I wrote a way too long reply, recounting my experiences pro and con, then got “timed out” and the whole darn thing went to Mars. Just as well. I’ve asked Robin to see if that feature can be killed or at least muzzled somewhat. Meanwhile, I’ll cut right to the chase and suggest that you clean all metal parts –WWs and heads– really well with acetone before gluing, and try them for yourself. Best test is to shoot at a 45-degree angle into a tree or such. We’ll get different results bepending on such variable as bow weight and arrow speed, arrow weight and wood, diameter, etc., but I consistently had heads break off at double the usual rate on such angled impact shots, suggested they’d do the same on heavy bone. So I don’t hunt elk with them. You may have better results or less strenuous needs. They do get the FoC right up there, and if glued on properly they do fly well.
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Ya Dave, thats the kind of info I’m looking for. I’ll hafta try the 45 degree test after my 3ft. snowdrifts melt off in the spring. I shoot a 64# LB with lodgepole pine arrows at about 180fps & 575gr before the WW’s. There’s nothing heavy boned here in Ohio, but do hunt elk each year south of Granby. More doing my own testing of Dr. Ed’s suggestions than anything. I appreciate the help. Buzzard
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Dave-Thanks for your experimentations- always nice when the other guy has to pay! As to woodyweights, haven’t tried them yet as I’m still working on aluminum and carbon EFOC-didn’t Dr. Ed have some post about the extended leverage leading to wood shaft failure right behind the head (where all my woodies fail without fail!).
IDEA! Would drilling the shaft- since you have the jig- and inserting a rigid metal rod- tungsten, steel, brass or copper- beyond the woodyweight and shaft juncture help prevent that most dreaded of conditions, next to ED, of ‘premature shaft failure’ or henceforth known as ‘PSF”?
Bert -
Buzzard ~ I bought some Woodie Weights last fall at the Michigan Longbow Great Lakes Longbow Invitational. First of all I was very used to the Carbon Express Terminators which flew fast and very flat weighing in at 466 grains.
Then I had some wood arrows made for me and I used 125 gr. field points. I added the Woody Weights and my arrow came to 685 grains. I use a 70# @ 28″ Martin longbow. When I shot the wood arrows with the Woody Weights I had to set my mark a little bit higher because they tended to drop a little at 15 yards…which was to be expected.
One thing is for sure, I definitely achieved a good deal more of penetration with the Woody Weights. In my Glen Del Full Rut Buck target I was pulling half or more of the arrow from the target. It really got more penetration than the carbon express without any FOC.
I put the wood arrows away and used the carbons for hunting last year but this year I plan to practice strictly with the wood and woody weights. I was really surprised at how well I got penetration with the weights.
I’m pretty happy with the woody weights, and I am confident that God willing, I get a good shot opportunity this year, I will harvest a white tail. I hope this helps.
Dan
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Bert: the breakage is very much a concern and should show up in Dave’s 45 degree deflection test.
Dan: I’ll have to see what happens with the (drop at range) experiment. Also, i can’t hardly pull my arrows out of my McKenzie deer now. That’ll probably get worse!
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Buzzard — now you’ve hijacked your own thread! To wit:
“How can I make my arrows (wood/carbon/alum) easier to pull out of a 3d target?”
YOU didn’t ask that, but I’d like to know. I normally practice with plastic-packed burlap targets, as per a previous thread here … except when I’m testing experimental set-ups. But I have a friend with a killer 3d course that I like to shoot a few times right before turkey and elk/deer seasons … and woodies, esp., almost give me a hernia pulling out! Someone wants to retire rich, invent a 3D foam target that both stops arrows real well, takes thousands of shots before decomposing, and yet is easy to extract arrows from. Lots of luck. 🙄 dave
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Bert,
You mentioned EFOC with aluminums. I tried, and I blew the side out of my aluminum shafting several times with angled impacts. I asked Ed about this in a post, and he said he had similar problems when he tried to get EFOC aluminums. I got great weight and somewhere around 24% EFOC, but when shooting into an angled piece of plywood, the aluminum proved to be too easy to tear, or perhaps too brittle of a material. The side that got the leverage just peeled away like it was pop can material. I’m going to try carbons. Let me know if you have any better luck with EFOC aluminums.
Michael
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My experience equals MT Michael’s with alums. As tempting as they are in many ways, if we elect to do our best to “Ashby-up” our arrows systems with arrow integrity (nothing fails or breaks) and EFoC, alums just don’t seem up to the task. 1) their diameter tends to be excessive, 2) as Mr. Ford points out the wall strength of the shafts is lacking on angled hits, and 3) right now at least, it’s hard or impossible to find anything but alum screw-inserts for alum shafts, which the Doc says must be avoided (nor do they add poop to FoC). Alums are cheap and synthetic. Carbons are cheap and synthetic. If a guy is looking for economy and prefers synthetics and yet want a serious Ashby-quality EFoC/reliable arrow system, I don’t see any contest. Go with carbon. If you’re a lifelong woodie addict like me, there will always be that nagging nostalgie to get back to wood, which I’m doing all I can to try and facilitate even now. Yet, at this point, considering nothing but “killing machine” quality, carbons have it down. This is my experience, well tested. I trust that many others have had other experiences. But increasingly as I age, I am less pragmatic and increasingly poetic in my approach to archery and bowhunting. I really enjoy experimenting, testing and proving or disproving it to myself. Beyond that — beyond knowing and reporting what has and has not worked for me — I don’t claim any special knowledge. Many ways to skin a cat! dave
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buzzard wrote: Also, i can’t hardly pull my arrows out of my McKenzie deer now. That’ll probably get worse!
A bar of Ivory soap rubbed on the shafts will solve that problem.
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What Hiram said except I use bees wax. Rub some on and buff briskly with a cotton jersey rag. Makes ’em slick as a baby’s derriere. Also do this with your hunting shafts for best penetration.
OK I see that I contributed to the hi jacking of the woodie weight thread. My bad.:oops:
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WW Update: Well, i’ve put forth the effort of shooting both standard and Woodie Weight added, arrows. First, they shot to the left about 6in, at 20 yds, which didn’t make any sense to me. Could be some kind of whiplash effect coming off the rest. At least they were consistent. Second, Dave P. offered potential shaft breakage issues. So far, that has not been the case as I shoot lodgepole pine shafts that have proven to be very tough to break which is the reason I use them in the first place. I’m sure that Cedars would not enjoy the same success. Third, penetration in my Mckenzie is about another 1.5ins. which really doesn’t prove anything. I would need to find one of Dr. Ed’s leftover carcasses to provide usable info. All in all, I’m happy enough with my currant set-up, 575gr total arrow weight, out of a 64lb longbow that I’ll not use the Weights after all, but would support there use if you feel you need them. Thanks to all. Buzzard
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Buzzard, we use rinehart targets for just that reason on our range. thousands of shots and easiest of 3d we have tried to pull.
on the right shooting efoc’s if you are left handed that would be an underspined effect caused by extra weight. my biggest problem with efoc experimenting has been getting enough spine to not whip them even though supposedly weight forward should not be a problem. it is for me. poor form in my case maybe.
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