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Could someone point me to which or Dr. Ashby’s articles mentions wood arrows and EFOC? From what it seems mentioned here and there, wood don’t seem to do as well, or aren’t prefered for EFOC arrows for some reason? I could be mistaken though, I’d jsut like some clarification.
Thanks:)
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Kegan, it difficult to get enough point weight on wood arrows to get very far into the EFOC range. Check out the “Mail order source for tungsten wire” thread. It will give you some idea on what folks are working on; trying to get wood shafts to EFOC levels.
Ed
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Thanks Dr. Ashby! At the moment I have some birch dowels left, and am primarily using carbons- but my carbons are only 600 gr. and expensive! I was planning to try some hickory arrows next, which sparked my initial concern.
I’ll play with the birch before I order the hickory. I’m glad to know it’s just a matter of figuring out how to get the EFOC, and not that there’s something WRONG:D
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Kegan — In sum, your choices are WoodyWeights, internal tungsten footing (no other material — steel, copper, lead — is both heavy and strong enough), just gluing on a heavy head (best with footed shafts), or using an external footing in the form of 3″ or so of aluminum shafting glued onto the the wood shaft end. I have tested them all, and all have disadvantages. The cheapest and easiest route to good FoC with woodies is to use a light wood shaft, single tapered, and the heaviest good broadhead you can find (and they’re getting heavier all the time. With perpendicular shots you’re likely OK, but with angled bone impacts there’s a high risk of the shaft breaking right behind the head. The internal tungsten footing added to this will get you into the 20%+ FoC range with less risk of the head breaking, but is expensive and a lot of work. In my backyard tests, shooting at angles into trees, the Woody Weights tended to “break” where glued to the point, and also increased shaft breakage behind the head due not only to the extra head weight but also, I presume, to the longer lever-arm they create. The only “solution” I’ve found so far that I’d hunt elk with is the external footing or “sock.” This has the added advantage of allowing/forcing you to use screw-in heads, which, with glue-in inserts allow a lot more possibilities for EFoC. To date I’ve not been able to get one to break behind the sock. Only drawback here is that right now, so far as I know, you can only get aluminum shaft inserts for aluminum shafts, which Ashby’s testing has shown to be a real weak point … and also such a rig looks rather clunky though it shoots fine. And so it remains for now that if our goal is max FoC, carbon shafts are the way to go — maybe wood-grained carbons? 😛 But keep in mind that most bowhunters, who never hunt anything bigger than whitetails and maybe feral pigs, don’t really need 25+% FoC to get the job done. Although Ashby’s research shows that EFoC adds more to penetration than overall arrow weight, a good heavy wood arrow with the right head will still get the job done on most game. Right now I’m shooting carbons for elk because I want the insurance. I shoot woodies for everything else. I have no doubt that someday soon, some intrepid arrow maker will solve this problem for us. In nature, no rich habitat goes unoccupied for long!
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Thanks David! Right now I’m trying to get around cost- not moving to more expensive carbons or anything like that. I’ll be moving to Florida to work with a friend in the summer, and hog hunting will be on the agenda- and I really don’t want to loose a fine, yet expensive, carbon arrow in the swamp:) The plan was to taper the hickory shafts (5/16″ nocks and whatever is necessary in the front) and put a big head on the front. I’ll try to see what I can do to make them work.
The “Socks” you mention, is that just a section of aluminum arrow, or are those the Woodscrew adapters like the ones in 3Rivers?
On a side note, I was planning on using the El Grande Grizzly with these arrows. If they don’t work out perfectly, they’d boost the weight- and FOC- of my carbons and I can just retune my bow to the lower spine:D
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The same thoughts are dawning on me. As a primative maybe even primate I tend to pick up all kinds of things in the woods. Have been using aluminum “footing” to salvage broken wood arrows. This sortta lead me to efoc by accident. Now I can get weight, efoc and correct spine for different bows by hanging the needed weight to broken shafts in the form of footed aluminum socks. Even works with found high dollar carbons. Not as pretty but really works for all the above at greatly reduced costs. Cheap is my favorite price. Would Primitive man used these materials. You bettcha. Waste not want not.
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EFOC in a wood arrow is going to be a challenge due to the shaft weight and spine limitations. It is possible to get some pretty high FOC, tho.
I shot this pig, 125 lb dressed, a couple of weeks ago. The arrow has 20.6% FOC. It is a Sitka Spruce shaft, 28″ BOP with a 50 grain 1/8″ lead wire internal weight and a 190 gr VPA Terminator. Shaft spine is 70 lb and the total arrow weight is 620 gr. The bow is a 58″, 54 lb @ 26″ Pronghorn TD. The shot went in near the last rib and stopped in the opposite front leg, centering the heart on the way thru.
A similar 125 lb hog was shot with a similar HFOC arrow, with a 70 gr weight and a Zwickey Delta. Full penetration, completely cutting ribs on both sides. I haven’t figured the FOC but it will be pretty close to the other arrow.
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Fletcher — Are you making lead-footed woodies just for personal use, or are you selling them? I didn’t see any such listed on your website but maybe I missed it. I’d be interested! In my own experiments with tungsten rod footings, I’m having problems getting the point taper right. If I taper the shaft before drilling for the footing, the drill tends to split the narrow end and also go off-side a bit. If I drill and place the rod insert before sharpening (I use a cheap hand-held pencil-sharpener type), the rod tends to project from the end and mess up the taper/head fit. I even tried recessing the rod down a quarter-inch below the tip, and that didn’t work either. Any suggestions much appreciated. Dave
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Dave, I have another round of tests to make before I offer the “Heavy Heads” as an option, but I’d be happy to drill and stuff a few for you to play with and abuse. I’ll be in touch.
I have a much more solid and precise jig than the drill guide some are using, so my holes are centered and a close fit on the wire. The wire is installed before the point tapers are ground. I grind my tapers and don’t have any issues or problems.
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