Why are small game hunter #'s falling?

[Chris Shelton]

#6052

Just curious as to why you guys and galls think the small game hunting stats are falling rapidly?

[Jesse Minish]

#47425

Except grouse and a few rabbits I don’t know where to go that is not private. We have a lot of squirrels, pheasants, quail and rabbits but all on private ground here.

[Clay Hayes]

#47438

I haven’t seen the stats you mention but it doesn’t surprise me. I suspect that if there were a place in the record books for a pine squirrel, you’d see more small game hunters.

First we’d have to get a season on the little buggers but then…. Ah the possibilities; I can see it now – Clay Hayes now holds the new P&Y world record pine squirrel measuring in at a whopping 1&3/8 inches.

Hunters would flock to Cabala’s to purchase the “pine squeaker LX” squirrel call that I would of course be endorsing.

[andy*]

#47584

Hey Y’all, We have a great small game season here in Washington state. However most guys I know only go after big game. They sure don’t know what they are missing. You can learn a lot about stalking when you go after grouse, rabbits, etc… What I hear when I ask about small game hunting, is mostly “why ? ” Hopefully with some more invites to hunt, I can “show them the error of their ways”
andy

[Hubertus]

#47757

This thread is certainly making me think. Thanx Greatreearcher.
For a novice like myself, all the information on large game (whitetail in particular) is quite overwhelming. This probably does affect where and when I spend my limited hunting time. Perhaps I am missing out.

[MontanaFord]

#48117

When I’m out in the woods, anything legal is fair game…squirrels, rabbits, grouse (in season only), etc…we don’t really have a set “small game season” here, so it’s kinda like live stumping.

Michael.

[T. J. Conrads]

#48506

This is a great question. Right now, Larry Fischer, Don Thomas, G. Fred Asbell, Dave Petersen, and I are having our annual TBM meeting at our home office in Eagle, Idaho, and this same question is being discussed.

One of the most asked for additions to the magazine that all of us have heard in our travels has been more small game articles. However, the data from the survey we just analyzed show that small game is near the last of the popular topics. It’s hard to understand, considering all of us in this room view small game bowhunting is one of our most pleasurable aspects of hunting. For me, cottontail and grouse are my favorite small game prey.

…got to get back into the meeting…

T.J.

[wetdog2084]

#48715

I think that people have forgotten what great table fare most small game is. bunny on the grill is a great way to introduce folks to small game. if it tastes good they will be more willing to try small game for themselves and when they find out how challenging and fun it is they’re hooked .

[crash87]

#49290

I would say a lack of places to go. As a fledgling young hunter I was able to walk out my back door in Rural Wisconsin and hunt a number of properties, of course I didn’t look at them as such. It was just one big woods to me. Before school, after school, any time I could, rabbits, squirrels, (gray & fox) Hungarian Partridge, Ruffed grouse, Ringneck Pheasant (the 1st bird I ever tried to harvest with a bow, I said try didn’t I?), woodcock and being on a river Ducks & Geese. Now access is gone, bought up to build homes and as recreational hunting, FOR THE TAXPAYER OF THE PROPERTIES, FAMILY AND FRIENDS, ONLY!
Even Deer hunting, fond memories of where I shot my first deer, memories only as I cannot even access the property to show my son the exact spot. We now hunt the northern forest and small game is now more or less non-existant for me. Although we do occationally persue Ruffed grouse and snow shoe Rabbits, that would be after a 3 hour drive to get there. Interest would still be there if you didn’t have to plan on making a weekend of it and, of course, the time and money invovled to just get there. Just can’t walk put my backdoor anymore. It’s To bad, not for me but for our future hunters our son’s and daughters. CRASH87

[Mark Turton]

#50449

I have always enjoyed hunting small game and when out of work a few years ago fed the family that way, the menu included rabbit, pheasant, duck and fish (although the fish were caught on a line).
For the hours spent hunting the greatest return must be small game, even when chasing larger beasts there is still the opportunity to take a rabbit or pheasant when the occasion arises and the great advantage of using a bow is the low level of disturbance.
Both my boys started by hunting rabbits (unfortunately they are both gun hunters, although there is plenty of time for them to see the light) the youngest will be hunting small game as part of his survival training for the Air Force.
The opportunity to learn field craft at a young age is so important, in my opinion it moulds character and forms respect for the environment and the wildlife that we hunt.
When I was younger my rabbit hunting was in the way of payment for help on farms at harvest time or doing odd jobs. I don’t know if this kind of arrangement is still possible.
Happy hunting Pothunter.

[heydeerman]

#50780

I’ll rant a little on this one. I think it’s because chicken is so readily available at every store and restaurant you go to. Make chicken illegal and then folks will want to go out and kill something small and eat it.:D

Big game hunting is the norm. I invite you to read my letter on the first page of the Great Ohio Rabbit Hunt website.

http://www.greatohiorabbithunt.net

We had a great response last year. So much that Mike Ballash decided to do a Great Ohio Squirrel Hunt this year. GORH is every other year on the odd years. He is planning on doing GOSH on the even years.

I don’t think small game hunting is compound-ish. It is really a trad thing. I know there are compounders who will shoot small game but to purposely hunt that way is almost nill. This is one thing that we trad folks kinda keep for ourselves. It’s old-school and doesn’t really interest any compounder I know.

[Chris Shelton]

#51450

I think you are absolutely right, because i think most of us want to be almost back in the old days(i couldnt live without my camera though) where there was game everywhere and all we had to do is walk out our back doors to hunt them, And also i think it is easier for us to hunt them rather than compound guys because we are not afraid to shoot at things moving, they need the animal to be perfectly still to shoot them so most of them are steadily stretching there distances out because they are getting lazy and they dont want to put in the work to get closer, so the improve there gear so they can shoot farther, but the groupings get bigger and probably bigger than most small game! I know that was a around about way of saying what i wanted to say but there it is!

[SteveMcD]

#51680

I would have to agree. The lack of Access and Loss of Habitat to development seem to be the biggest reasons. Many places here in the Northeast it was not uncommon to flush over a dozen Ruffed Grouse a day. Grouse thrived on second growth land from reverting farmlands abondoned in the 1920’s & 30’s. Now that land is either mis-managed and overgrown, posted or lost to development. I for one like many, also take advantage of the liberal deer seasons we have today. For me, yes I enjoy getting out for an annual pheasant hunt, but to me Whitetails are second to none, and if a season is open I’m hunting them. But the bottom line is here in the northeast, without habitat or access, small game hunters have little to shoot at and little opportunity.

[Chris Shelton]

#51825

Okay alot of you are saying similar things, like I would rather hunt deer. Well I am having trouble understanding that and it could very well be because of a simple equation! different region= Different seasons. Here in Maryland, small game seasons like rabbits and squirrel go far beyond the last day of archery deer season in late January. Our rabbit and squirrel season ends on the same date, Febuary 28. I dont know, mabye my preferences are just different, it seems to me that if I could choose between sitting all season for one shot at a deer. Or I could go out all season and kill 8 rabbits with my bow, and get probably umpteen million times that many oppurtunitys! I dont know just thinking aloud!

[heydeerman]

#51848

Greattreearcher, I checked out you web link. Man that is some awesome video. You have talent my friend.

Region and dates does play a part. In Ohio skwirl ends with deer and wabbit goes till the end of February. I wish our tree rat season went to the end of Feb. as well. It is hard to set aside time to hunt rats when your after a deer.

[SteveMcD]

#51942

GreentreeArcher I hear ya. Our Small Game seasons run right up to the end of February. And I do like to get out during this time, not only for small game, but with snow it allows me to see how and where the deer and other animals are moving. For many, icluding myself it is ice fishing season as well.

[Voodoo]

#52447

I can only speak for myself about what I’ve seen and heard, I live in a rural part of Indiana farm country, along the Salamonie river, 35 miles south of Ft. Wayne…..We have plenty of squirrels, and I, as well as many others enjoy hunting them, but Rabbits, now that’s a different story, I’ve lived here 10 days short of 5 years, I hunt the areas 3 reservors, and some private property too, in these last 5 years I have seen exactly 3 rabbits…. and all have been on my property…. none at the reservors… none on private property……..when I was a kid they were everywhere, and I’ve hunted these same areas since then….bet your thinking we have a lot of coyotes…. nope, heard one.. just one in the last 5 years…..but I do see a lot of re-introduced raptors…as they have taken to eating my animals, seems here, if there was more small game to hunt there would be more two legged hunters……….Steve

[Chris Shelton]

#52667

note to self indiana not a good place to go rabbit hunting, just kidding! I live in western Maryland, farm country and i cant go one day without seeing a rabbit, especially during the summer, but during the season i would get at least one shot a day in a 3 or 4 square mile radius of pure brush. Not all areas around here are like that though, you just have to knkow where to go. I would bet that if you are not seeing rabbits than you are to close to wooded areas, it seems to me that actually most of my rabbits are in brushy clearing next to little woodlots, but i had never untill this last spring seen a rabbit in the woods!!

[crittergitter]

#53252

small game is my favorite but as i am only 15 and not the best with a bow i tend to choose the ruger 10/22 far more often than i should but arrows are so expensive for someone my age.my entire family hunts,but i am the general only supplier of deer meat we tend to eat lots of feathered things as we hunt birds a lot,we have the bird dog and all,in fact i consider my current level of skill with stick and string to my serious carrer as a shotgunnersince a shotgunner does not actually aim at a runnig rabbit or flushing grouse we instinctively throw up and fire. i have shot ducks on the wing since i was 9 along with woodcock dove grouse and the occasional quial.however in three years of traditional archery i have taken,4 squirrell,3rabbit,1 coon,18 possum,one skunk witch the finely hand crafted port orfard cedar arrow still resides in the verry spot the critter died in,and ruffly 50 carp.one more thing montanaford did i understand correctly in one of your posts you said you dont actually have a small game season.

[Chris Shelton]

#53660

Well critter getter, i have some valuable advice for you! Being of the ripe old age of 18, and just coming from the “hard times” that you speak of about not being able to get arrows; i completely understand but if you really want to become a truely great archer(not saying you are not one already)you need to take risks. Just speaking from experience, lets say there is a squirrel up in the top of a tree, you only have 4 arrows left in entirety. This would happened to me in the begginning of the seasons before christmas! He is well within range and you feel comfedent that you can make the shot. My advice is that you take the shot! These simple risks will help you in the long run becuase i think you will find that if you are not spot on and just a bit off that you will probably not end up loosing your arrow! Just something to think about!

[Steve Sr.]

#22656

I hesitate to pass on the information I have seen but it’s not just the number of small game hunters.

The numbers of hunters PERIOD in the US have been declining for some time now and that bothers me more than I am capable of putting into words, simply because the “cure” IMHO, is beyond what the “powers that be” in the US will put into effect.

Please read this single news cast on such.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/09/03/national/main3228893.shtml

While this article mainly concentrates on the number of YOUNG hunters I feel the problem is much more complex.

With the population growing by leaps and bounds through immigration and standard methods there is only one possible forecast but when that starts to rear it’s ugly head, is up for debate even amongst those trained to do such studies.

This is taken from a search on the US population.

“Based on the middle-series projections, the Nation’s population is projected to increase to 392 million by 2050 — more than a 50 percent increase from the 1990 population size”

IMO the hand held gaming and the mulitple things to do online are also “problems” by comparison simply because of the ease of which parents can “keep their kids busy” with minimal effort. “Heck! I don’t even have to leave the house!”

The all too fast, rat race pace of MANY working adults is also an issue in my eyes. Not only are the parents “too busy” to teach their children of our sport IF they know themselves, the cost and travel needed for lots of them simply takes “too much time”.

AS WITHIN the hunting sports, parents often “take the easiest path” of doing other things, and doing so rapes our sport of a future.

When I was a teenager I spent a lot of time with my Dad. Today, the divorce rate has youngster’s time with “DAD” limited to mostly the common “every other weekend”.

Once the child gets a drivers license, that child is GONE 90 percent of the time. He or she has plans dating, “hanging out”, listening to music, attending functions and who knows where.

Technology has multiple benefits within thousands and thousands of areas but the time honored “blood sports” require a larger amount of time and EFFORT on both the teaching and learning parties. Attempting to switch from “GO GO GO” to “Slow down…relax, look, listen and learn!…..enjoy!” is too much for many, and I really feel FEW are capable of doing so.

As I grew up in the 50’s a BB gun and a swapped-for hand made bow were my constant companions along with my Fox terrior dog, Spot. (imagine that)

I had THREE TV channels to watch, ONE TV that was shared by 5 other people in the house and Dad mandated HOW MUCH TV you could watch.

I cannot count the number of times I heard “go outside and blow the stink off!” from my stay-at-home Mom. Thankfully, my “entertainment” was stalking a Boone and Crocket sparrow or Saber Toothed chipmunk out among the then standing thick fence rows and weed patches.

A long time ago? Not really. Think of the NEXT 50 years and the possibilities!!

Yes, I believe I’ve seen more than one estimation that the number of US hunters is dropping by the average of 100 THOUSAND annually.

Those are brain numbing numbers when you start multiplying them by 50!!

Without some kind of slowing in the population growth, the PLACES to go and hunt…..or learn, or teach….will decrease. Here is the midwest they already have. A LOT!

Many of the swamps, fencerows, creek bottoms and thorny thickets of my hunts of yesteryear….are simply GONE now.

I’ve no answer but I do know that we are “making more people” …….we are NOT making MORE LAND. More people equals more jobs needed, more factories, more homes, more stinking golf courses (sorry if that offends but it’s true) and the precious “idle” lands viewed by us as havens are viewed by developers and some farmers as profit!

The laws of supply and demand will conquer and divide in time without a RADICAL cease in the population growth.

While there are more deer “hunters” in my area than before, the number of true hunters has went with the ease of gaining permission TO hunt.

I live 20 miles from where I was born and 4 miles from where I graduated from high school in 71. At that time I had more places to hunt than I possibly could. In my short lifetime that has eroded to ONE place left and even though years ago I staked my claim for future hunting through a local farming landowner, that too has gone due to demand and the all mighty dollar.

The numbers of deer “hunters” buying and leasing up the land to hunt on threatens to put me completely without a place to hunt! Should I not DO SO MYSELF by some method, and find a way to lease an area…….I easily see that I will NOT be hunting locally in my retirement years just 8 years away.

Some of you will scoff at my message here but mark my words, it IS coming here in the Midwest.

Within only a decade or two if you don’t own or lease ground to hunt on…….you will not, unless you wish to hunt with the crowds on state owned property that is only a couple hundred acres locally and shared by an untold number as I speak. I cannot imagine “hunting” in an area of that size with hundreds of others also doing so for a multitude of game animals.

I may live in an area much more effected than you but open your eyes to the numbers of people the world population is creating. In time……..we will run out of places for them if it continues.

I pray daily that I am WRONG……but I’m not.

God Bless
Steve

[heydeerman]

#22761

Steve tells allot of truth here.I think that hunting is almost in the twilight and the only way to keep it from becoming a memory is to get young folks involved. I tried with my kids but they have no interest. I am mentoring a young man now who’s dad did not hunt and wants to learn to hunt. I have had several inquiries for folks looking for mentors over the last few years. A couple from single moms whose kids have dead beat dads. It has me thinking about starting a mentoring program in my area.

[Chris Shelton]

#23074

i solute you heydeerman, i actually got my buddy into it, without me he would be in god only knows how much trouble, he had a good bit of land and last year we turned it into a good bit of property. he loves to hunt now and if hes not hunting hes at a fire hall, so i guess he doin pretty good. I think to get at the meat of Steves response i would just say that you should get some kids out and about and cherish our lands before they are all gone.

[Mark Turton]

#25158

Top Man, Steve Sr.
You have hit the nail on the head but don’t think it’s just the US where this is happening it’s the same in Europe and Africa people are losing touch with nature and where their food comes from, and because of the middle class anti hunting types that teach our kids they are discourage from even discussing hunting or fishing. Like you when I was a kid three of us would take off in the holidays with a BB gun (one between three) a few cans of beans and pockets full of candy, three days was a long adventure and our folks knew where we were along a disused railway track but we learnt so much. Kids now just don’t have that freedom unless they are very lucky.

You are also right about greedy developers the only way to keep land safe for generations to come is to have title to it.

Heydeerman
Don’t despair of your kids not being interested I have noticed how hunting is appealing to people in their late twenties and thirties often when they have kids of their own and they see the horror of computer games, just keep the door open.
Mentoring is an excellent way to go and talking as kids do it won’t be long before they find friends that want to try hunting or fishing.

Mark.

[heydeerman]

#25164

Pothunter wrote: Top Man, Steve Sr.
You have hit the nail on the head but don’t think it’s just the US where this is happening it’s the same in Europe and Africa people are losing touch with nature and where their food comes from, and because of the middle class anti hunting types that teach our kids they are discourage from even discussing hunting or fishing. Like you when I was a kid three of us would take off in the holidays with a BB gun (one between three) a few cans of beans and pockets full of candy, three days was a long adventure and our folks knew where we were along a disused railway track but we learnt so much. Kids now just don’t have that freedom unless they are very lucky.

Mark,

I am counting on the turn around as they get older. My oldest son (23 years old) is in the Army and just before he went in for basic he expressed interest in hunting. He only went one time with me and missed a doe. My youngest son who is 13 used to shoot his bow with me. I used to have a trad archery shop and sell bows for several bowyers. Bruce from Chapparall Archery became attached to my son and made him a longbow as a gift. It’s hanging on the wall waiting for him.

You are also right about greedy developers the only way to keep land safe for generations to come is to have title to it.

Heydeerman
Don’t despair of your kids not being interested I have noticed how hunting is appealing to people in their late twenties and thirties often when they have kids of their own and they see the horror of computer games, just keep the door open.
Mentoring is an excellent way to go and talking as kids do it won’t be long before they find friends that want to try hunting or fishing.

Mark.

[Mark Turton]

#25246

Hi Heydeerman

My youngest is into the second week of his Sergeants training, heard from him briefly yesterday as he had the ‘weekend off’, raising money for Help for Heroes. I don’t think there was anything ‘off’ about it, they were allowed into the mess 19:00-20:00 one hour one drink. It does make me smile, before he signed on the dotted line he was taking a year out New Zealand, Australia living on the beach bungee-jumping sky-diving, diving with sharks all the things that I used to dream about before I got responsible.
Anyhow what I’m getting round to is when he was home on leave for 10 days prior to Sergeants training he and his brother took themselves off hunting rabbits right out of the blue, might have taken shotguns but a year ago he would not have bothered, he may be getting a bow for Christmas!

Mark.

[stickbow321]

#36419

This will be my 3rd hunting season coming up with traditional archery equipment. And for some reason I am really looking forward to small game season this year Even more than deer season.
I also have two kids, one is 4 and the other is 2. I already have the 4 year old shooting her bow and going out with my to wtch animals in the woods. She loves watching hunting videos with me also.
I think it was crittergetter who said something about the cost of arrows. Well I figure if I can use the average arrow at least 20 times before I breck it or lose it, its still cheaper than buying ammo for a gun. In most cases anyway.

[MontanaFord]

#36506

crittergitter wrote: one more thing montanaford did i understand correctly in one of your posts you said you dont actually have a small game season.

Yes, you heard right. We don’t have a set small game season here in Montana. Squirrels and rabbits/hares are pretty much open year-round. The squirrels here aren’t much in the way of size, though. Their bodies aren’t much longer than a person’s hand, from head to base of tail. We have jack rabbits, snowshoe hares and cottontails, depending on where you’re located. We do have upland bird seasons for our various grouse species, pheasants, chukkar, and whatever else there is, as well as our waterfowl seasons. I take a fair number of grouse every year. The squirrels…well…aside from being quite small…have you ever taken a bite out of a pine cone or tasted pine-sol cleaner??? That’s about what they taste like. Anyway, I owe, I owe, so off to slavery I go.

Michael

[Jason Wesbrock]

#42409

If I had to guess why so few hunt small game these days, I’d have to probably attribute it to two factors:

1) You seldom, if ever, see folks hunting small game on TV shows or read about it in magazines (TBM excluded).

2) There’s no trophy value in small game. Even in bowfishing we have “trophy” carp, gar, whatever. But when was the last time anyone heard someone describing a rabbit or squirrel as a trophy because it had a long tail or huge ears?

While I would like to see more mainstream media exposure to small game hunting, I hope we never see a day when people start referring to “trophy groundhogs.”

[Chris Shelton]

#44424

Well I think you have just made something occur to me. You are right, not many people look at rabbits or squirrels as trophys. Unless that is that the squirrel is black! But I suppose I didnt see that little tippet, because anything I shoot with traditional tackle in my eyes is a trophy my first squirrel also the biggest squirrel I have ever shot, was just as exciting as my first deer with my curve, he tasted good to!:wink:

[awessman]

#54668

It sure is a weird deal to me. Because how often do we find our selfs sitting in a tree stand all day watching squirrels wishing we brought blunts with us instead. Or spend some time hunting next to a pond and wish we were duck hunting. But you bring up squirrel hunting to alot of “hard core hunters,” and they look at you cross eyed.
For me hunting is hunting. I love mule and whitetail, but somedays I just want to relax and go for a walk in the woods and see if I can arrow a couple squirrels for a dinner. But most people dont see it that way. Because they have never tried. They watch tv and hunt that way, I know people who only buy products that they see there favorite tv show useing. Alot also has to do with there grown folks not taking them out when they are young, in fear that the youngster will spook a boon and crocket size deer, that they just paid thousands of dollars to shoot. TAKE A KID HUNTING

[muddy]

#55596

I think that it is the same as larger game. Most of the land is leased and public land is over hunted.

[Chris Shelton]

#55632

sorry muddy but I disagree, public land is not overhunted, you just need to do the work, find your spot and stick with it!!!!!

[MontanaFord]

#55747

I agree with you, Greattree…most public land is not over hunted…just the stuff really close the access points. Most hunters here won’t go more than 1/2 or 3/4 of a mile from the nearest road, partly because they don’t want to be very far from their truck, and partly because they don’t want to drag a deer that far. I try to hunt farther from the roads, and because of that, I see more game, typically. Whether or not I shoot something is up to me…do I want to take the shot? Is the shot ethical? And, in some of my hunting areas…particularly when rifle hunting…Do I want to pack a fork-horn mulie a mile back to the top of the mountain, as well as 3 miles down the other side to the truck? It all depends on the situation. As for public land, Montana has millions of acres of public land, and hundreds of thousands of publicly-accessed private land owned by lumber mills and such.

Michael

[Don Thomas]

#55770

As to the original question, there are a lot of reasons and most don’t bode well for the future of hunting. Over the last generation or so, we’ve seen a big change in the reason why individuals choose to hunt with the bow. When the Thompsons, Pope, Young et al started the revival, bowhunting was conceived as a deliberate way to return to nature and small game was a large part of that. Nowadays, the emphasis has shifted to trophies, scores, and, unfortunately, ego gratification. Grouse and rabbits don’t have much to add to that. Of course, the outdoor media have played into this all too easily. But rest assured, we at TBM still appreciate a good shot on a bird and a fried rabbit dinner. That’s why there will always be at least one small game feature per issue, and one issue annually that focuses on small game. Don

[crash87]

#56171

Nowadays, the emphasis has shifted to trophies, scores, and, unfortunately, ego gratification. Grouse and rabbits don’t have much to add to that. Of course, the outdoor media have played into this all too easily.
That nail you hit squarley on the head. Just saw a show on network T.V.,(not cable) the other day. Appalling to say the least, people who don’t hunt see this garbage and think we are all like that?? Unfortunatley the majority probably does.

That’s why there will always be at least one small game feature per issue, and one issue annually that focuses on small game. Don
YES!!Keep ’em coming

[Author]

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