Home › Forums › Bows and Equipment › Upgrade to Ashby setup needs advice
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I’m not gonna make changes this year in the middle of deer season but I am looking to change my setup in the offseason. Here are my ideas, tell me what ya’ll think.
My bow is a Navajo Scout hybrid longbow. I pull 29 1/2 inches(I’m only 6 ft tall but I have arms like an ape). The bow is 46# at 28 inches so my guess is(I haven’t weighed it)I’m pulling about 49 or 50 pounds. I am shooting Gold Tip 5575 Traditionals(advantages of carbon, awesome looks of wood) with a Steelforce 125 grain BH with a 50 grain weight insert, total arrow weight 505 grains.
I want to stay with the same arrow but increase my arrow weight 50 to 75 grains. I’m thinking of a 75 grain steel adapter and the 125 grain grizzly. But then I worry about being underspined.
Any and all opinions welcome as well as suggestions on any other single-bevel broadheads. I’m not even sure about all the brands of single bevels available. Some that have been mentioned such as the Concord I’ve never heard of. The only trad catalogs I have are 3 Rivers. I’ve been scouring the ads in TBH Magazine but what better source than folks with hands-on experience.
I’ve only been shooting trad for a couple years and have ALOT to learn. This site is a gold mine of info.
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TWO CENTS HERE!
When it comes to personal set ups and what “works” and what dont, it’s tough for me to say.
What I have found the difference is bows, form, releases and such create working set ups for some, that for others would not.
Im a “little” surprised, for example, that at 50lbs and that head weight a 55/75 flys well but am taking your word for it.
With a 55/75 and my 45lb bow I also have a 30 inch arrow (28 draw) that requires 300 plus grains of head/insert/adapter to tune.
I could only suggest that you try one and assemble it and shoot it bare shaft to see.
The one thing I think you will see with the heavier “traditional” shafts is that weight up front doesn’t change your FOC nearly as much as one the same spine but in a lower grains per inch shaft.
Agreed, they are neat looking but I’ve found the ones that give me the best EFOC are the plain black shafts of several manufacturers but I’ve hardly tried them all.
I search and continually do so, for shafts having the LOWEST GPI I can find, research the durability opinions online, and try just a couple at first. (Im a tight wad).
As I always will, I agree with anyone’s set up they are happy with and works but just my 2 cents on what I’ve found to be true.
God Bless
Steve Sr. -
I was in somewhat of a similar situation. You may be able to get by with an extra 100 grains, but that’s alot. In the end you’re probably going to have to change arrows too.
Other single bevels I’m aware of:
Alaska Bowhunting Supply (I love their stuff. Top notch…ALL of it). I’m going to be shooting Ashby’s and I shoot GrizzlyStiks, and will continue to do.
Abowyer (I’m currently shooting the Brown Bear)Make sure to read the Ashby report Dave Peterson just added the other day about sharpness. It’ll steer ya toward longer heads.
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A quick addition to the above, Sorry.
One option if the arrows you wish to use ARE underspined there IS the option of building out your arrow plate further.
Experimenting on how much of course, I’ve read no thoughts on what amount of “less centershot” relates to what spine change, but do know it works.
Building out the centershot reduces the spine that will be needed to tune and while it may be a pain to find the exact amount, I would bet that it would be doable on that arrow combo.
Steve Sr.
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So Steve your saying I’m over spined now? So do you think I’ll be close to good with the additional weight and extra inch and a half draw length? I went up in spine this summer and they fly better than the 35 series arrows. I’ve asked other folks about this and been told my relatively long draw length is what makes these arrows acceptable.
Patrick, I am aware of the Ashby heads but man, I don’t know if my wife would cotton much(southern slang there) to a second mortgage for broadheads, yikes. After reading on this site about your problems with the Brown Bears I’ve crossed them off the list as well. Really leaning towards Grizzlys or Eclipse.
So much to learn. And in complete contrast to all the stuff I’ve learned over the years about tuning and shooting compounds.
Keep the advice coming, when it comes to this stuff I am “green as June tomato”(more southern slang).
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Steve Sr. wrote: A quick addition to the above, Sorry.
One option if the arrows you wish to use ARE underspined there IS the option of building out your arrow plate further.
Experimenting on how much of course, I’ve read no thoughts on what amount of “less centershot” relates to what spine change, but do know it works.
Building out the centershot reduces the spine that will be needed to tune and while it may be a pain to find the exact amount, I would bet that it would be doable on that arrow combo.
Steve Sr.
Interesting idea. Never thought of that as an option.
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Once again, as so often is the case here, that credit goes to Dr. Ed Ashby as well as my own thanks for reminding me of that fact that I knew but somehow it hadn’t made it back into play.
I shot the same arrows so long that I had to restart the wheels to get fine tuning thoughts straight again before starting anew on totally alien to me arrow materials and spine rates.
Doc kindly reminded me in a discussion on Ultra EFOC and it completely restarted my thinking at a point where it should have been to begin with.
To give an example of the possibilities this option holds, yet not a limit by any means, I was able to make an addition to the side plate of my 67 1/2 Super Kodiak that is 55lbs that enables me to shoot the SAME ARROWS as what I have tuned to my 43lb 1968 Super Kodiak that is not built out.
**A note here that I have NOT YET, bare shafted the same shafts but simply shot arrows used for the 43lb and kept building out the side plate on the 55lb until all wobble and / or flipping was gone using VERY low, VERY short fletching. I’m sure they are not “perfect” but will find out soon by starting from scratch with the same shaft as time allows but, both bows group well at 35 yards with broadheads. The 55lb shoots flatter by a noticable margin.
Even at just over 30 percent EFOC, this information tells me I am not yet at the limit of my trials for higher still yet that is on the back burner during season.
Said “iceberg” has indeed been well taken past the tip in The Asbhy Report and I encourage all readers to read and reread this fine work and think on your own about using the information provided for your own set ups.
The preached mantra of waiting for a FEW certain, rare gotten shot angles is indeed a fine and noble thing yet we now have at our fingertips new factors that has changed the “rules” of penetration, shot angle, and even a faster recovery of game shot than ever before.
I for one will be utilizing them to their fullest and of course, posting the results here as I also encourage all of you to do.
Good or bad, all information IS of value when put to proper use in the proper perspective.
Few shots have been available here so far this year but the best of the best time of the year is in the next two weeks.
SOMETHING is going to get shot. 😆 While I am looking for a nice buck, the desire to further test these set ups, EFOC, arrow weights and heads is so important to me at this point, if it’s brown IT’S DOWN!
The quests for a nice buck, meat for the freezer and of course the enjoyment of all my hunts has a “last but not least” addition of learning even more about our sport through my own experiences with Ed’s information put to my own personal use.
Can you tell IM Excited? 😀
Dang corn, DANG WEATHER! lol
God Bless
Steve Sr. -
Johnny2, :D:D:D
I’m really pleased to say that you’ve already had some really, really good advice put forth. If your’re looking for EFOC there’s no doubt that you will need to look towards lighter weight (GPI) shafts.
Steve is correct that it’s virtually impossible to give a ‘cook book’ arrow setup for any bow and shooter. There are just too many variables involved. That’s where the bare shaft tuning comes in.
You are very wise to wait until the off-season. Arrow development and tuning takes time and, until you’ve done a few, you should go slowly and carefully, double checking every result before making a change. Using the off-season for arrow development gives you really good incentive to stay actively involved with your hunting setup AND you hunting mindset … and it teaches you a whole bunch about how arrows work too (I know that I’m still learning). As you build and test, that’s were it becomes easier to help with specific suggestions, relative to what you are finding as you test and tune.
If you look back in the Updates you’ll find a little bit about the testing with the lighter weight Grizzly BH’s. IN COMPARISON to the 160 and 190 grain versions, the ligher ones bend relatively easy. But don’t mis-read that; they are every bit as tough as most any of what I’d consider the ‘standard’ traditional BH’s.
Ed
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All I knew I needed when I bought my longbow was 10 gpp and a cut on contact head, wow!
That combination is well accepted as a good one. No one here is saying it is not in any way. Ive shot that same one for decades and it worked fine when you or I were “content” with a set up that we knew could and probably would fail on penetration if certain areas of the game animal were accidently or purposely hit.
It is still a good one and a great many stick to it. No problems there what so ever IMHO.
The simple point remains that a better penetrating set up does exist IF a person wishes to get “all they can get” out of their bow weight in penetration.
Some may want the optimum “just in case” something goes wrong at the shot, others may want something (they feel, not telling anyone what they should or should not surmise or accept) that has proven to give penetration on shots that were for a long time “forbidden” simply because with previous arrow set ups, penetration had proved to be “iffy”.
That said, there are NOW arrow set ups ALSO PROVING time and time again that those same shots CAN repeatedly and regularly be penetrated into the vitals.
All of us benefit in penetration options given us in the Ashby Report. The way we use or don’t use this information is a personal selection of any or all to produce a comibination of individually desired results.
I really should allow Ed to reply to these but, I feel so strongly about the subject, I just cant shut up. 😀
God Bless
Steve Sr.
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