Trad VS. Compound

[gidaddy911]

#4298

I was shooting at a 3D range today with my longbow. There happened to be a couple of guys shooting with compounds. They gave a disapproving look at my primitive tackle and started do head down the course. I let them go first becuase I knew they would go faster than I would. The targets weren’t marked for distance so they had their range finders out and shooting with deadly accuracy.

I noticed how much they struggled to draw their bows, and couldn’t help but to reflect on how I started shooting my 70 pound Parker. I don’t knock the guys who shoot compound as long as they hunt honorably. If it wasn’t for the compound I got, I don’t think I would be shooting trad now. I love archery and the mystery, awe and closness with nature it allows never gets old to me.

These guys were good, and hitting what they were shooting at. I was able to walk away with some confidence when I was getting great shots in with my bamboo bow, and the surprise on their faces was priceless. I still had some hits that let me know I still had a long way to go before shooting past 25 yards(which I don’t think I will ever do anyway). But at 25 yards and under, I am deadly!!

I’ve started planning for next September in my home state of Colorado. My traditional tackle lets me connect with the land I loved so much in my youth in a new way.

[Amoose]

#29481

I have 6 3D’s in my backyard, and 7- 4″ thick foam targets, 13 total, from squirrels, birds, to bear, boar..shoot 4-5 days a week, will not go to “mixed shoots anymore because I think the compounders take too long, and don’t appreciate the fact that I don’t shoot over 40 at foam, 50 at paper on bales, and sometimes like to shoot from off course, like next to, or under branches/cover.

But never think about releasing an arrow at a live game animal over 35…Well might think av=bout it, but don’t release until I am sure..

[Amoose]

#29503

Just wanted to say, … first off, many years ago while I was still using “Training Wheels” I shot an Elk, Joe St.Charles was hunting with us that year, in a spike only area.

When he posed for the picture, I asked him what a “Hard Core” Traditional Archer felt about posing in a picture with a C-pound-er, and his reply… ” an Arrow is an Arrow”

Now in my own experience at 3D shoots, Trad Archers move through the course faster, they step to the post, look at the target, draw, release.

The only thing that would slow them down is a complete miss, and time spent searching for the arrow…

A c-Pound-er, steps to the post, stares through his range finder, puts it down, draws his bow, looks through his sights (until he has a sight”picture”) then releases, a lot longer period of time.

I know when I used a C-pound-er, I could hit a gnat in a snowstorm all the way out to 80 yards, but with my “Trad equipment” it all depends on a variety of personal responses/reactions, I have off days where I could not hit the broad side of a barn while I was standing inside it, but other days, I could shoot a mouse in the dark with my eyes closed, while shaking like a hound dog shat-ting peach pits, lying on my back.

If you try to compare Compounds to recurves/longbows, you miss out on the ability to , draw, release w/o thinking, shooting from a sitting, or standing, running, or stationary, under branches, etc…

I have no doubt that I could harvest an Elk every year with a C-pound-er, just because I know their effectiveness, and range, But put a 600-850 lb animal within 25 yards of you, screaming louder than any of those so called “Pros”, literally leveling the landscape, destroying everything within sight, I don’t care what you have in your hands, you do not have time to get your finger out of your nose..(or your thumb out of your…)

The ability to adapt, and change, what position you are in,including branches, make an instinctive weapon more reactionary, and the ability to “feel The Shot” better suited to close encounters than having to deal with range finders (who needs one at under 30 yards ? (even a c-p only drops what, couple inches at 30 ?) I know I could stick an arrow in an Elk at 40+ yards, but I want to hit it right in the joint, and the only way I know how to do that is within 30, and full draw.

If you are comfortable at 25, perfect, I get them within that range, I think about how many times i could have shot an Elk at 40, if I still used a compound, but you never know…

[Amoose]

#29510

That is Joe, behind the spikes, me grinning around the tree, by the way, nothing better than help to pack your animal..

and sorry about “the wheels” on a trad sight…

[WICanner]

#29884

I am working on my 2 closest compound buddies in a subtle fashion. I bought them each a one year subscription to Traditional Bowhunter Magazine for Christmas. They never poke at me for my choice of equipment, but the magazine will give them an idea of the rest that goes with it. Don’t expect them to change over, but may plant a seed upstairs in some fashion. 🙂

[CareyE]

#30941

Shooting a longbow has brought back the excitement for me. I have nothing against the compund shooters as I was one too. I switched for me and not to impress anyone.

[David Petersen]

#31044

WIcanner — I too use TBM as a primary tool of conversion. I get two copies per issue — one is my subscription, the other an author’s copy that goes to anyone who has an article in a given issue — so I always pass along the extra copy to an open-minded training-wheeler. Insecurity is what keeps most compounders shooting compounds — they remain unconvinced that a trad bow will get the job done, and/or that they can master a recurve or longbow sufficiently to be a successful hunter. Therefore, another good way to help ease folks into the trad world and help them answer their many questions and overcome their insecurities, is to turn them onto tradbow.com so that they can “watch” as others successfully make the transition, have their questions answered by more experienced folks, and be assured of a friendly welcome. We’ve all heard this often before, because it’s so true, but “I sure wish I’d had a TBM back when I was first getting into archery.” Now, ditto for tradbow.com. IMHO 😀

[William Warren]

#31417

I switched from trad to the wheelie and back to trad. Prior to that I had not taken a deer with trad and had lost 2 deer with the wheelie. Then I killed my first deer with my Bear Alaskan 47# recurve with a complete pass through and that was all she wrote for the wheel bow. It is still collecting dust in the corner of the junk room awaiting the day when it too will become a collectible. 😀

[Ripforce]

#32023

Man do I agree on the combined shoots, where I live we have a 3D circuit thats runs from spring thru summer at differant courses! There are anywhere between 6 or 8 trad shooters and maybe 25 compound shooters! I have been paired with compounders on a couple of occasions! I could shoot these courses twice before they get thru once LOL! They take so much time between shots, and are SO worried about their 10Xs that they don’t have any fun! they usually kind of laugh at us, but when they try to shoot my longbow they can’t hit squat with it! It usually humbles them real fast! I have converted my nephew over to Trad from compounds he sold all his wheel equipment and now owns a Black Widow!!

[SteveMcD]

#32182

[quote=”gidaddy911 I let them go first becuase I knew they would go faster than I would.

Really!!! That’s amazing. Most shoots I go to, I can shoot 15 arrows before the wheel crowd lets go of one!!! 😆

All the best with your Trad Gear and plans! I am preferential to Bamboo myself!

P.S. get out and do some stumping, you be surprised at how many 25 and 30 yard shots you’ll be proficient at. The main thing is letting your brain calculate for unknown yardages.

[lee]

#33437

I haven’t touched my old compound since starting trad in 2009, but I remember shooting the compound and agree a trad is WAY more fun! It took me a while to realize that I missed at 25-30 yds because I thought about the shot too much, draw-point-release and the arrow usually hits the mark. GO TRADBOW!

[james gilmer]

#36970

I’ve noticed at mixed shoots that its the trad guys&gals having fun. They are laughing and wahooing and teasing one another. shooting real bows and arrows is a lot more fun than pulling a trigger on a piece of space equipment

[Bruce Smithhammer]

#37217

What is this “compound” that you speak of?

[David Petersen]

#37334

Compound: n. “An unnecessarily complex simple machine composed of sundry cables, wheels, pulleys, and cams, but having neither spirit, beauty, nor soul.”

[Bruce Smithhammer]

#37413

[Troy Breeding]

#38132

I’ve made several mixed shoots. I went to one shoot where they drew names for the groups from the hat. When my name was called I headed up to join the group. One of the fellows that had already been called blurted out he didn’t want to shoot with anyone using one of those bows. When others ask what his problem was he stated “because it would take too much time finding lost arrows”.

Not wanting to cause a problem I told the fellow calling out the names to just put me in another group.

Thats when another fellow that knew me spoke up and said they would spend less time finding my lost arrows than trying to get him to shoot. I found out what he was talking about pretty quick. The loudmouth was one of those that would look, then adjust his sights, then look some more, then adjust again, before taking a life time to turn an arrow loose.

Troy

[tradbill]

#38145

I don’t mind shooting with our local club with mixed bows. Most of the compound shooters are pretty considerate and will let U shoot thru. Hello Troy from Bill of Lost Tribe Trad. Archers of TN.

[jugboy]

#38800

I bought my first trad a few years ago and put it away shortly after, because I got discouraged at my poor performance. I would get it out from time to time but still couldn’t seem to gain any consistency. In the past few months the traditional archery bug has really gotten a hold of me. I have been shooting regulary for the last few months and I am finally seeing a lot of improvement. I am now kicking around the idea of selling my Mathews so I won’t be tempted to return to the easy route of the compound (I’m one of those insecure types, I guess). I guess one part of my attraction to the traditional bow is the challenge, satisfaction and enjoyment I experience when shooting. I am now trying my hand at building my own wood arrows. The other part is my getting sick of the technology infested compound world, where compound bows are like computers, they are obsolete 3 months after you pay a small fortune for them.

[MCuiksa]

#39924

Jugboy, I left hunting all together for several years while raising a family. I picked up a TBM magazine one day at the grocery and was hooked. I bought a couple bows, some arrows, etc and started shooting. I grew up shooting a recurve via instictive shooting so it wasn’t new to me. When I returned to it all these years later though, I too struggled. Come to find out some of it was certainly me but most of it was a poorly tuned setup. Brace height, spine, nock point etc were all off. Trust me, you can’t perform well with a bad setup – you will be inconsistent. So, before you get too frustrated, read up on all the tuning info on this site and use the resources who post here and I think you’ll find the right path. Best shooting. Mike.

[David Petersen]

#40062

Mike — Your advice is right on the money. I really don’t know how anyone can climb the short but steep learning curve of tuning without a mentor. After more than 50 years of trad shooting I still struggle with tuning a new setup, though at least now I know the steps. Best guide I’ve seen is by O.L. Adcock. http://www.bowmaker.net/tuning.htm should get you there. Too much info, really, but the important stuff is clear.

[jugboy]

#40112

Mike and David. I have a Martin Dream Catcher. I believe I have the brace height and nock set correctly. I am considering a couple different things. I have only shot wood arrows and I am thinking of getting a few aluminums to throw out one variable. I am also wondering if I overbowed on my first recurve. I draw at about 27 inches and my bow is rated 58# at 28″. I shoot leftie so I had a hard time finding anything in my price range starting out. I am now considering having a custom bow made at the 45-50# range. I have been reading anything I can get my hands on. For Christmas I got Asbell’s Instinctive shooting and a subscription to Traditional Bowhunter. I often reference my copy of T.J. Conrad’s, Traditional Bowhunters Handbook. I only personally know one other guy who is proficient with a traditional and I badger him with questions everytime I see him at church. He is always insightful. Think I need to schedule a vist with him soon so he can watch me shoot.

[Bruce Smithhammer]

#40693

Jugboy – congrats on a nice bow.

But I’m curious – what’s making you think that you might be overbowed?

That said, for getting he basics down, shooting a lower-poundage bow will probably let you focus more on technique.

But don’t get rid of that Dream Catcher if you don’t have to! After shooting for a while, you might not find #58 to be that big of a deal. And of course, if you do, then please PM me….:)

[jugboy]

#41002

Smithhammer,

I feel I am strong enough to draw the Dream Catcher. What I am wondering is, like you mentioned, that I need a lower poundage bow to help me focus on technique. While I am a much better shot with my recurve than I was even a month ago, I am not very consistent. I am sure a lot of it just depends on getting out there and shooting every chance I have and will just come in time. I guess I have become a vicim of the quick success I gained with a compound and expect things to improve as quick as it did when I took up the compound:( As for getting rid of the Dream Catcher, I hadn’t really considered getting rid of it, but if I do I’ll let you know.

[Bruce Smithhammer]

#41126

jugboy wrote:

As for the Dream Catcher, I hadn’t really considered getting rid of it…

Good! They’re nice shootin’ bows, and purty too.

[W David McLendon]

#42400

I guess that I am in a minority these days in that I have never owned a confounded arrow launching machine. I grew up around traditional archery through my uncle in the early sixties who was friends with Dan Quillian way back when, my dad rest his soul couldn’t hit his own foot. I built bows from whatever suitable stick that I could find and sometimes went through several a day. Arrows were made from whatever was straight which was usually dried dog fennel or holly sprouts. My first real bow was a ’64 Bearcat, I forget the draw weight but it was probably somewhere around 35-40#. I did pick a compound up once in a taxidermy shop that was selling them and pull it back, it was heavy, required too many gadgets to make it work and could only be reliably accurate when shot in a particular position. But I guess what really turned me off was that it was just so damned ugly, I just couldn’t get past that.

[lee c]

#55783

jugboy wrote: I bought my first trad a few years ago and put it away shortly after, because I got discouraged at my poor performance. I would get it out from time to time but still couldn’t seem to gain any consistency. In the past few months the traditional archery bug has really gotten a hold of me. I have been shooting regulary for the last few months and I am finally seeing a lot of improvement. I am now kicking around the idea of selling my Mathews so I won’t be tempted to return to the easy route of the compound (I’m one of those insecure types, I guess). I guess one part of my attraction to the traditional bow is the challenge, satisfaction and enjoyment I experience when shooting. I am now trying my hand at building my own wood arrows. The other part is my getting sick of the technology infested compound world, where compound bows are like computers, they are obsolete 3 months after you pay a small fortune for them.

Hey Jug…Yep..that is me!I couldnt agree more…3 months, and they ALREADY got a new arrow burner…and I just have to get THAT one! Just getting back to trad myself. Love ALL my Bear recurves,but never was consitant enough,or confident enough, to feel I could hunt and make a good, clean killing shot. Long story short..ran out got a Mathews Monster, flat and FAST shooting. Made meat with it…have LOADS of confidence in it. Just miss my old Bear friends..and the simplicity of them! Can I ask you aquestion? What did you change in order to become more accurate and consistant? I bought G.F Asbell’s videos..watched like crazy…and became worse,I think. Nothing against him..just wasn’t working for me. Love his style though! …take care

[W David McLendon]

#56351

The mental aspect is process over product. The basic mindset of todays compound/crossbow shooter is that “I am going to go into that ecosystem and take something from it”, while the typical true trad archer/hunter is, “I am a part of this environment, and I will assume my role within it”. The difference there is pretty clear.

[Hiram]

#56556

Actually I much prefer a one string Bow because I feel it is the best suited tool for my type of hunting.I much prefer the simplicity and ease of deployment in the field becuase they (Recurve or Longbow) weighs less than most compounds. Easier for me to shoot, easier to maintain. I do not like sights on a Bow. I do not need one to be accurate within my self imposed perimeters. I do not shoot my Recurves or Longbows to be cool but, it is! lol:)

[David Coulter]

#56830

Lee C,

I read G. Fred Asbell’s Advanced Instinctive book and a few things really clicked for me. I really tried to pay attention to MoeBow’s videos and the part about rolling the string arm shoulder has really helped tighten things up. If I can do that consistently and really focus on a spot, then it comes together nicely. Best of luck, dwcphoto

[skifrk]

#57021

Lee C. One other way of getting is help is there a few traditional top archers in competition that also teach technique I know of people who have taken there classes and got a lot out of it. I think TBM had somebody do a report on Rick Welchs bow school which is one of them. Or the other big one that comes to mind on Masters of The BareBow is Rod Jenkins. He has classes he host throughtout the country you can go to or even try Byron Ferguson I think he still does his classes also or the other one is Bob Wesley who learned from Howard hill.

For me i learned more having a good quality coach to critique my technique since i can watch a video and think I am doing the same thing but until i have someone check my technique to compare I can be wrong.

[jugboy]

#58158

Lee C,

I am still honing my archery skill. Guess that will always be the case. I too, have read Asbell’s Instinctive Shooting book. I have put in a lot of practice shooting to help my consistency, but I am still unsure as to how confident I will be in the woods. At this point I wouldn’t take much more than a 10 yard shot in a hunting situation. I went stump shooting with a friend last week and was pleasantly surprised at my improvement. I think getting out in the woods and shooting will be very beneficial for me in practicing and putting away that “compound bow mentality” about yardages. Good luck.

[Hiram]

#58553

skifrk wrote: Lee C. One other way of getting is help is there a few traditional top archers in competition that also teach technique I know of people who have taken there classes and got a lot out of it. I think TBM had somebody do a report on Rick Welchs bow school which is one of them. Or the other big one that comes to mind on Masters of The BareBow is Rod Jenkins. He has classes he host throughtout the country you can go to or even try Byron Ferguson I think he still does his classes also or the other one is Bob Wesley who learned from Howard hill.

For me i learned more having a good quality coach to critique my technique since i can watch a video and think I am doing the same thing but until i have someone check my technique to compare I can be wrong.

Yes,very good options to consider! I used to shoot the “snapping method” but have in the last few years changed to a more deliberate controlled sequence and aim using a split vision gap method. I shoot three under as Rick and Rod both do to gain the advantage of less gap at close ranges. The one string is the most deadly close encounter tool in archery!!:)

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