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Folks,
That Emergency Gear thread got pretty hot. Intention is not always at the steering, but tangents are often what make it interesting. I’ll take Dave P’s comments as a cue, intended or not, to start something else.
I know I’ve always suffered from trying to take too much stuff and as I get older, I try to simplify. As a young boy scout, I took “Be Prepared” a little too seriously. To me that meant carrying a knife, a hatchet, an axe, a steel frame bow saw along with my canvas pup tent, extra cotton socks and jeans and usually forgetting edible food. I’m still climbing out from under the weight of that and if you could see my studio, you’d agree. I suppose that’s why I’m a photographer instead of a writer. It has to do with gear.
I don’t think anyone would argue that as a nation, a world, we’re suffocating under the crap of our own desires. And, this site is a way to share ways to get a little breathing room from that pile. How do we turn a pile into a pocketful? What’s a comfort and what’s a burden?
Thanks, dwc
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Another good thread! Thanks Dave the shutterbug… 🙂
I often just sit and shake m y head… at the divergence that occurs and the lines drawn in the leaf mold, sand, whatever…
As traditional archers, we are about as diverse as it comes…
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knapped points
glass backed bows
arrows with plastic nocks
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funky fur silencers
silencers of man-made material
Carbon arrows
wooden arrows
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And yet, we can get in whizzin matches over a perceived line of what is acceptable…? I just do not get it! I might be more dense than most, but, Sometimes,– it appears to be the age old, “if it’s not what I like, it’s wrong?”
I really dislike that…:oops: the self bow guys call themselves Primitive archers; They frown on anything with glass. The woodie shooters often will rail against the carbon people… As a fraternity of ‘traditional archers’, we all poke fun openly at wheelie shooters and expandable BH’s. ME TOO! I think it’s human nature, but not the best side of it… 😥
Maybe its some throw back to a tribal thing or clan thing…anything not like us, doesn’t like us????? So we have to utilize the BEST DEFENSE is a GOOD OFFENSE?! I hope not…
I choose what weapon to hunt with. I choose what way to hunt. I choose where to go and how to get my critter out if lucky. I am fastidious about handling my game, to the point I will not go where I am unsure I can care for the meat, even though success often eludes me for years at a time… to waste a death (TO ME) would be sacrilege.
alas, nobody, but NOBODY makes those decisions for me and until such time that freedom is lost, I like to “live and let live and folks find their own path…” I’ll encourage… even comment but will share why I would suggest a different approach, then let the hearer make their own choice.
Shoot what you want. Wear what you want. Carry what makes you feel the experience to the utmost pleasure. To each his own. I love being challenged, and encouragedto re-consider my own status quo… but it can be a fine line at times…
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One of the things I really liked about living in the camper for 7 years was the fact that I didn’t have room for “stuff.” Every time I went to buy something I asked myself “Do I have room for it?” Obviously you can always find room for another fly rod, or more fly tying stuff, but things like furniture were out of the question.
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Hey dwc, your last sentences’ answer is….it’s all relative (I think)! Less is more. I truly believe that. But, it’s not easy, and human nature is inclined to “fat” in all things in my 2 cents. We’ve been starved, beaten and eaten for too many thousands of years to live on a collective dimes edge is my guess. Enjoy what you have, and when you no longer need it, give it away if you can! As much as we groan about the guilt we face as a consumerist society, look back a couple generations and ask yourself if we’re not collectively better off? Heck yeah we have problems, and they may indeed end us all, but so might have the Plague, the Flu of 1918, Smallpox and any number of things that existence throws at us. Humanity is, I think in its early 20’s. We may all get drunk, crash and die, so to speak in an orgy of selfishness, or maybe yet, more of us will live and carry on some sense of wisdom. Maybe what brings us all here and some answer to your question is the joy of letting it all go? Well, if I misinterpreted the post and got up on my pedestal a bit high, next guy up, feel free to knock me off:D
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R2 wrote: My boys seem to be happy with my too much. And that’s great cause “I gave that to one of the boys now I can buy this”.
Doesn’t fool my wife though…..:D
Dem wimmin’s be smarter dan we tink sometimes…:D
haha! you got me thinkin’ about what he said – how to reduce a pile to a pocketful. Yeah, them wimmins:lol: Get a deevorce and watch it all get reduced real quick!
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Good stuff one and all!
I’ll pass on another divorce, though. Done that once and volunteered to set the old gal up in a new place with “stuff” — I had extras. I came out on top on that one…dont’ want to chance that to fate again!
Too late shmart and too soon old, a PA German saying…
Might live in TN now but the roots go deep!
I did learn that the saying, the one who dies with the most toys wins! is totally false… and without heirs of my own, anyone want all the “stuff” I got when I croak???
Model trains; reloading; fly tying, weapons; camping, stuff of a younger man’s abilities than these old decrepit bones! 🙄
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My life, and my posessions, are pretty darn simple compared to the average American lifestyle. However, do I own some things that I don’t strictly “need?” Of course I do. Then again, I don’t recall ever taking the vows of a monk, nor have I found any need to.
As others have said, everyone makes their own decisions, and if you’ve chosen to simplify your hunting by picking up a trad bow, then I think you’re on a good path. Beyond that, fretting about what other people own, or don’t own, and making judgments based on that, seems the realm of old ninnies sitting around drinking tea with nothing better to worry about.
I’d rather enjoy life, and everything it has to offer – including the craftsmanship of others.
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Drinking tea makes me get up even MORE at night…I’ll pass…
😯
Too many choices to draw lines in any medium. we’re bound together by a desire to unify with simpler things, not simplistic… lets not confuse those two!
We can’t afford to divide and conquer!
a house divided against itself will fall:evil:
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Paleo, stay on the soapbox. That what this thread is started for. Disagreements welcome in this one, as they should respectfully be on all. Thanks dwc
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Well now, I never even looked at the survival gear thread ’cause I couldn’t care less. I think we spend way too much time worrying about surviving instead of planning on thriving.
I figure I’ll survive by my wits alone 🙄 They aren’t so heavy a load.
But now, I’ll have to go back and read that thread to see what happened (like a rubbernecker). I have a feeling, Dave, that you have shown your usual mellow wisdom again.
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Doc Nock wrote: I choose what weapon to hunt with. I choose what way to hunt. I choose where to go and how to get my critter out if lucky. I am fastidious about handling my game, to the point I will not go where I am unsure I can care for the meat, even though success often eludes me for years at a time… to waste a death (TO ME) would be sacrilege.
alas, nobody, but NOBODY makes those decisions for me and until such time that freedom is lost, I like to “live and let live and folks find their own path…” I’ll encourage… even comment but will share why I would suggest a different approach, then let the hearer make their own choice.
Very well said!
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That’s a good question. 😆
I am, perhaps, at times, guilty of being overly ready for catastophe. I spent 6 years doing maritime search and rescue in places like the Bering sea, then helped run a hiking group here in the Northwest. The six years in the Coast Guard conditioned me to do constant risk assessment. Leading trips where folks would show up in November wearing all cotton clothing carrying only a sandwich in a laptop case, was an eye opener.
I don’t think I’m so much afraid of getting hurt or killed, as I’m afraid of being hurt or killed because I did something STUPID. I’ve watched poor equipment and bad decision making kill people. We routinely loose a couple people a year around here who go out in cold, rainy weather in all cotton clothing for example.
So I try to hit that balance between being prepared and still having some fun. Part of that is assessing conditions. Last year during elk season, we had some atrocious weather move in, so me and my bud just didn’t go. That hurt, as the season is short.
Most of the time that people get stuck out in the woods, it’s because they 1) got lost or 2) suffered a mechanical injury. I’m reluctant to say this out loud, but I’ve never gotten lost.
I love the minimalist “the more I know the less I carry” approach, but it’s that mechanical injury part that gives me pause. I can make a bomber debris shelter, but it takes quite a while, and would take even longer with a tib/fib fracture.
So I stick to the ten essentials, but scale it up and down depending on weather, conditions, and activity. In the summer, my kit is pretty light. In November, when it’s often 40 degrees with heavy rain and winds, I carry more.
I am a little bummed with our current paradigm in popular culture that wilderness is the place where we go to engage in a grim struggle for survival. All the various teevee shows and such make it sound like if you are going on a nature hike you need to be ready for an ordeal.
I’ve mostly quit another, outdoor related forum because there are a thousand guys there writing a million threads on the minutia of gear, and treating every trip into the woods like it’s a life or death struggle. I’d try to engage people there with how COOL it is to be in the woods, and how much peace I find there, and got crickets chirping.
I think part of that is because folks have such boring lives. There’s something in us that wants a challenge, particularly un-initiated males who work in offices and such. There’s a difference between being comfortable and being happy, and I think sometimes people try to find a challenge just to shake off the ennui.
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Great post, Wose.
And I couldn’t agree more about the current state of “every venture into the outdoors being a matter of dramatic survival” syndrome.
In addition to traditional bows, I’m also into traditional knives – I love learning about the history and culture that different knife designs originated from. I was watching a documentary on the Saami people (northern Scandanavia) the other day, and I couldn’t help but reflect on the simplicity of the knives they used for virtually every essential task, even though their daily lives, in a very harsh climate, were/are far more about “survival” on a regular basis than your average modern-day “outdoors survivalist” who seems to be convinced that they are risking their lives every time they go on a day hike if they aren’t carrying a massive military knife/saw/pry bar combo and a pack full of survival gear.
At the same time, I also feel that their is a bit of a false dichotomy created in thinking that it breaks down to either being about the “gear” or being about the “experience.” As with most black-and-white assessments, there is usually a very moderate middle-ground which isn’t either/or. In other words, I believe it’s entirely possible to carry a modicum of proper gear, smartly chosen, and not have it negatively detract from “the experience” whatsoever. But alas, if human history tells us anything, it’s that our brains seldom seem to be able to resist the allure of binary thinking – it makes things so easy. 😉
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Wose, thanks for your comments. Where I spend almost all of my woods time, I can walk out within minutes. That’s the way it is in NE PA. But I do find it interesting to hear the views of those who are out there, way out there. I’m definitely in the “want to be home with family” crew. And I’m with you on using your head over packing something to make up for that. One of the things I carry is a compass, as most do. It’s not that I necessarily have to orienteer my way out, but I know if I’m turned around in the fog all I have to do is keep on a straight line in a general direction and I’ll hit a road.
I didn’t meant this thread to go into a discussion about who is allowed to carry what, as that is certainly personal choice. I appreciate you all chiming in with your personal views on what’s important and why. Thanks, dwc
Smithhammer, comments are well taken. The experience can be enjoyed and so can the gear, but.. I know, as a photographer, and as a cyclist (more in my past) that while we do things for the experience the gear can take on a life of its own. What started out as a wish for a ride on a nice fall day becomes about titanium rims and clocking cadence. If you look at Pulitzer Prize photos you’ll see that almost all of them are taken with a lens of relatively normal focal length, because it’s not about the gear it’s about the moment, the feeling. That said, the photography business is so much about the gear. It’s good to take stock now and then to see what’s in our packs and pockets. The decision to carry and enjoy is our own. I think the point is, if you carry it, enjoy it (the item in the pack), just as you enjoy your knives and your bows. Thanks, dwc
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You two hit on another thing that I’ve scratched my head over… EXTREME this and that!
People making “flying suits” and jumping off cliffs to sail around like birds; doing things that are just asking for catastrophe. One policeman friend of mine, along with some others of my friends in related law enforcement like bunny cops, talk about the “JUICE” a lot!
Perhaps Wose hit it with his people being in a bubble so to speak, and their very souls crave some risk taking?
I know the aging process, has made me very aware that things I took forgranted as “do-able” now …aren’t! Some days, getting up satisfies my personal risk quotient! :cry::oops:
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dwcphoto wrote: Wose, thanks for your comments. Where I spend almost all of my woods time, I can walk out within minutes. That’s the way it is in NE PA. But I do find it interesting to hear the views of those who are out there, way out there. I’m definitely in the “want to be home with family” crew. And I’m with you on using your head over packing something to make up for that. One of the things I carry is a compass, as most do. It’s not that I necessarily have to orienteer my way out, but I know if I’m turned around in the fog all I have to do is keep on a straight line in a general direction and I’ll hit a road.
I didn’t meant this thread to go into a discussion about who is allowed to carry what, as that is certainly personal choice. I appreciate you all chiming in with your personal views on what’s important and why. Thanks, dwc
Dave,
Your post reminded me of a situation. I got into one of those GPS things… thought it might be nice to find a prior placed stand in the dark without those hideous bright eyes littering the woods.
So I take it where I knew the terrain. Sho nuff, it tried to tell me where my truck was parked and if I’d have followed that danged thing, it would have had me walking off a steep cliff 400′ into the Susquehanna River.
I re-calibrated it 2x and it still did it… under leaft story or open… so I gave it away!
I have come to not trust technology as a substitute to good maps, compass and awareness, but as was pointed out, mechanical body failures are things that can reduce us to being very vulnerable, even in 30* weather without SOME minor preparation.
Now you move from your NE location, Dave, and head due West a few hours and them be some bigger woods and while not high mountains anymore, they still be steep and rugged. You so much as twist an ankle up there around Lycoming Co, you might not get out to a road for a while… or get turned around in fog.
You stay safe!
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Doc, I hunted up in the hills around Renovo and it’s not high, but it’s dang rugged. There are plenty of ravines to get turned around in, but if you know where you are, one compass bearing can get to back to a road, even if it’s a longer hike. thanks, dwc
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Yup. In that area (hunted there in my early 20s) there are a running TON of logging roads…but you’d better know which way to go and if you’re crawling, it might be a long ways out! 😀
Most folks think of PA as “built up” but they say it’s still 75% forested!
Even a drive out PA 76 will show you a LOT of rugged, green country! let alone drive out 80! Rt 6 will give you heebie geebies if you pass a gas station due to price!
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Doc, since you’re older than me:D:D:D:D:D:D
Not always is enuff stuff enuff stuff you know. 😉
Thinking of something in relation to the title of this thread, I’m sure y’all have been on an excursion with someone who had ‘no stuff’ and expected you to provide.
There are some people born that way.:roll::roll:
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Not until anon, Ralphie, boy, not till anon.:roll:
And yes, I’ve been in that situation… and since it’s taught to be more “blessed to give then receive” I was obliged to give them what showed up thinking I’d carried theirs and mine, the toe of me boot!
You pack it in or you do without… kinda like pack it in, carry it out, but with a few more hunger pangs on the prior!
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dwcphoto wrote:
Smithhammer, comments are well taken. The experience can be enjoyed and so can the gear, but.. I know, as a photographer, and as a cyclist (more in my past) that while we do things for the experience the gear can take on a life of its own. What started out as a wish for a ride on a nice fall day becomes about titanium rims and clocking cadence…..
Absolutely, and I totally agree. It can be a slippery slope and its easy to lose sight of why you’re actually doing something when you’re trying to keep up with the latest gear technologies. Many outdoor sports have become dominated by this continual pressure to keep updating all your gear to the ‘latest and greatest.’ But we’re traditional bowhunters, which means that on some level, we’ve all made a decision to get off that train, to some extent, by the very nature of the thing. Do we still continue experimenting with different things, trying this arrow material vs. that one, or this bow design vs. another? Of course – but I’m fairly confident that has characterized archery since the beginning. And really, when I look at the prevalence of “gear-headed” culture – I wouldn’t put traditional bowhunters on the list of those contributing to the phenomenon, by any means.
Of course, the example from the opposite extreme of the spectrum would be the person who heads out into wild country entirely focused on wanting to have a ” wild experience,” but lacking the skills, and the equipment necessary to execute those skills, for that environment. And the consequences in these cases are often more catastrophic than simply a loss of perspective.
As in just about everything I find, there’s an ample middle ground. But even friendly debates of this nature tend to offer up the extremes as the examples to make their point. A healthy blend of skills, preparation and ability to appreciate the experience seems like a completely achievable approach, and one which I think is still fairly easy to find in our little sub-culture. In fact, we may be one of the better cultures to still find it in, these days.
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I really liked several points you made, Bruce, one, about traditionalists first and second one was the issue of those without the skill who NEED the gear if they’re to survive in wild places.
What type elitist would I be to admonish or prevent someone with perhaps a largely urban background from experiencing the wilderness of say, your state or MT or WY because they’d never been taught or lacked the “OUTBOUND” trailing because of finances? I’d not like being that person.
If they can rent gear so they can make up (in part) for their lack of experience and skill, can they not also become part of the critical mass so necessary to preserve those wild places? Getting them “OUT THERE” to experience the wonders we all hold so dear is important. Getting them BACK home is imperative if they’re to join with our preservation efforts, Yes?
I also think the first point is powerful! When I started, there were only sticks. My arms grew unknown to me and my pretty AMF Wing RC stacked horribly when I started shooting that last late summer… I took it to the shop, and they worked hard to talk me into a Jennings T2 compound…ugly thing it was, but they had no knowledge to help me just find a longer draw stick…28″ was IT on the shelf I guess…:(
Thus started that slope and every year, it was a new bow THINGGY to make up for laying off shooting till mid summer.
Once I made the transition back to the simpler values and ways, I gave up 20+ yards or more of distance I could shoot in hunting situations. I made that choice openly and knowingly. It was part of the transition to traditional archery… Was I so different?
as I aged, I gave up draw weight to stay accurate after sitting all day immobile. Each sacrifice was met with another level of personal choice and self discipline.
Things that are “too technical” may be tried and set aside…
Gear emphasis might be dominating other outdoor pursuits and be of some concern, but again, if it gets people OUT THERE who then can develop a deeper bond and appreciation of our beloved natural world, they may be there to help us preserve!
But we as traditional archers have already forgone many of the modern conveniences and success made easy routes. Gear rants becomes preaching to the choir of sorts!
As life takes more and more time, free time is reduced. Only a few choose to embrace that which takes more time to perfect the abilities and impose self limits on their conquests and successes while embracing those limitations.
Those who do not, might yet do so…but have to be led and shown the path, not brow beat about the head and shoulders.
May we all redouble our appreciation of the intricate, ever-unfolding and sometimes complexities of the simple stick and string, as we learn ways and materials that may be already known by ancient ones, but in the process, become a more integrated part of the natural scene we play in…And then LEAD others, not berate them for alternate choices.
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Good philosophies, Doc & Smithhammer. Thanks, dwc
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