Today discouraged at first, encouraged later

[Troy Breeding]

#3924

The weather cleared today allowing me to continue working on my hunting arrows.

Before doing anything to the shafts I deside I’d better see if they still shot like the did the other day.

First few shots were just as they were the other day. Impacting in the dot, but still tail left kick.

Now it was time to see what happens when I change point weight.

To start with I took acouple of heavy weight points I had made and put them on. Now, these points weigh 365grs. thats 50 grs. more than what I had on.

After taking the two shots I could easily see this was the wrong way to go. It’s really amazing how much such a small amout can change things. The shafts hit almost 8″ to the right. Afew more shot showed the same results.

Now it’s time to see what happens with lighter points. This time I used 285gr points. Results show POI to be back to center with way less tail kick.

Since that worked so well I desided to try a 250 point.

After installing the 250 points and afew shots I an easily tell that the 315 points were right on the upper end of the line for max point weight. The 250 points shot as close to clean as I could have ask for had I been wanting to use a broadhead that weight.

Guess this means it time to start trimming the shafts.

First cut is 1/8″. After several shots with the 315 points I really couldn’t see much difference. Back to the saw.

Cut another 1/8″. Now I’m starting to see a difference. After shooting 10 times I can see this is helping.

Back to the saw for another 1/8″ cut. Several shots later I’m really seeing a difference.

I kept cutting and shooting with better improvements each time until I had removed 3/4″. Hard to believe the shafts were hitting their mark before cutting. Anyway, now I have a shaft that only has a very slight tail kick and is right on the mark out to 20yds. At 25yds they are on average 1″ to the right. At 30yds the average is slightly more. Between 2″-3″.

For some this would be great. For me I feel they can still be a tad better so it back to the saw. This time I’m only going to cut off the thickness of the blade.

After replacing the nocks and taking the first two shot me thinks me has it right. The first shaft looked like a fletched arrow. The second shaft had such a tinny kick I almost missed it. After several more shots I’m still seeing the same results. One shaft will fly clean, the other has the tiny kick.

I’t time to head to the fletchers and install the fletching. I’ll let everyone know what happens later.

Troy

[Troy Breeding]

#25214

After fletching had time to setup I did alot of shooting. I’m still not quite happy with everything. One arrow shoots fine, the other still has that slight kick. I turned the nock to the next feather and it seemed to straighten up somewhat. I’m going to do alittle more testing. I’m going back to the spine tester and make sure the shaft spines the same all the way around. I’ve had shafts in the past that would have a stiff side. That may be the case with this shaft.

Troy

[Crystalshrimp]

#25301

Are you tuning every single arrow you shoot or do you shoot and tune 3 or so a then just make 4 more with the same specs and figure they will all fly perfectly. I was wondering, at what height to you have your string nock. Mine nock is at 1/2 inch and im quite sure that is way to high for a 670 grn arrow pushing 360 up front.

[Troy Breeding]

#25317

CS,

My string nock is no more than 3/8″” high. I’ve found that using arrows of this sort your better off level to ever so slightly tail high.

I started with two arrows on this setup. Never having used these arrows before I took the two lowest spine shafts for starters. Normally 340 shafts want shot for me. However, these being so light in GPI I thought I’d start with them, then I would always have stiffer shafts to go to should they not work.

Right now I’m not convinced these two are going to work. They started out fine, but seem to be going downhill with every adjustment. I had the same problem with my Beman 340’s.

If I were going to use these for tournament shooting and had all these shafts spined, weighed, and shown the same straightness I would work thru two arrows until I got them right and build the rest from those.

Since these are going to be my hunting arrows and the remaining 10 are the same I’ll still work acouple of them at a time until I have all ten shooting correct.

I can handle a zinger on targets, but when it comes to hunting shots I want to know that any arrow I pull out of my quiver will be correct.

Troy

[Ed Ashby]

#25861

Troy, these threads are a great idea. Wish I had though of it! Walking the reader through your own tuning step by step may be the very best way to get the finer aspects of tuning EFOC/UEFOC arrows across to everyone. You’re doing a terrific job.

ADMIN. —– I’m wondering if it might not be a good idea to put these threads of Troy’s together, once they are completed, into a single ‘EFOC/UEFOC tuning document’ in the ‘Library’. They would be a lot easier for folks to locate there than having to search for them among all the other threads, and would prevent having to repeatedly answer the same questions in the future.

As far as that goes, A ‘Saga of Tuning an EFOC/UEFOC Arrow’ by Troy would make a great TBM article too!

Ed

[Robin Conrads]

#25949

I would be happy to offer that to our members, but I couldn’t begin to pick and choose the information. If you and/or Troy can put it all together, I’ll do the easy part and find a home for it on the site. 😀

As for an article in the magazine, that would be Don Thomas’ call. I know you are aware of the process, but here is a link to the Submission Guidelines with Don’s contact information.

[David Coulter]

#26536

I think it’s a great idea to have this all put together in a place that’s easy to find. Great stuff, thanks! dwc

[David Coulter]

#26885

So, I was on easy street in the first parts of my tuning. The bare shaft flew far right and with a few cuts I had it going to the center line. So I cut another shaft, fletched it and went out with high expectations. Now I can’t seem to get either one to fly to the same place. Well, that’s a little exaggerated, but it’s not as consistent as I would like by any means. My aluminum arrow is flying just fine, so I don’t think it’s all me. Shooting with the bow vertically does feel a little strange, as I’m used to shooting somewhat canted now.
Taking a break and checking everything out to be sure what’s up, then give it another swing tomorrow.

[Troy Breeding]

#26905

David,

What kind of difference are you getting. One high, one low, or is it one hitting the mark one hitting wide left or right?

If it high and low, that indecated nocking point off. If it’s left and right then your still slightly off on tune. Once you get to the center with the bareshaft things can get pretty tricky.

Once I fletch my shafts I shoot with my normal stance and form. I only hold the bow vertical during bareshafting. Even though I used to shoot vertical I now cant my bow for some reason. I can shoot with the bow vertical but I have more confidence in my shot if I cant.

As I stated in an earlier post I’m not sure the two shafts I’m currently trying will cut the mustard. I often wonder if there is a point in a underspined shaft that will allow it to bareshaft, yet just not have enough backbone to handle it to the fullest.

Troy

[David Coulter]

#26916

Hi Troy,
The funny thing is the bare shaft usually shoot more center than the fletched arrow. I’ll try tomorrow with your suggestion to shoot straight up with the bare and canted with the fletched. I’ll also double check the length and weight of both before I get started.
One thing I did do was to open the nocks, which were very tight. Now they slip on the string and hang on their own weight, but not much more.
Off to photograph a jazz festival in Delaware Water Gap. Should be a fine day.
Best, dwc

[Troy Breeding]

#26934

David,

Me thinks you is really beganing to understand all this. Not too many shooters would even think of checking nock tightness.

I’ve come to understand that not all this bareshaft tuning isn’t written in stone. Not every trick will work for everyone. At times you will have to think outside the box and try afew things that havn’t been suggested.

Opening the nocks to be one of them. I have a bad habit of thinking that everyone should already know this kind of stuff.

Thumbs up dude!!!

Troy

[Troy Breeding]

#27140

Well, this morning after making my last post I stripped the shafts and headed out for futher assurance and if needed tuning. Not being totally happy with the way the they were shooting when fletched I needed to just double check everything.

Again during the shooting session the shafts hit their mark at 10, 15, 20, 25, and 30 yards. One shaft would fly clean while the other still had a ever so slight tail kick. Knowing they weren’t just right when fletched meant I didn’t have anything to loose by triming and shooting several more times.

So off to the saw I went. I trimed only a saw blades width, reinstalled the nocks and started shooting.

Can’t really see anything different. Back to the saw. I’m going to see how much it will take to push these two shafts to show stiff. It took alot of triming to bring them to clean, but it may only be a tiny bit to push them to stiff so it slow as we go, no big cuts.

More shooting, more cutting. This just doesn’t make since, but if they don’t shoot right in the end I’ll scrap them and start over.

All I know now is I’m getting down to the point that very much more in the line of cutting and I’ll only be able to use them for traget. Broadheads and my fingers make for a bad mix.

After the last shooting session I’m just starting to show a faint stiffness. Now I’ll fletch and see how they shoot.

Off to the fletchers….

Now, I’m gonna tell this one on myself. I think all of you will laugh at this because normally I’m pretty causious about what I do when fletching.

After fletching with three RW 3″ parabolic feathers ( gonna use these until I get everything right) and allowing time to setup it back to the bale.

Locked and loaded for the first shot.

Anchor, settle-in and release!!!!!

Something ain’t right. I’ve never had an arrow make that noise. Must have been a bad release.

Second shot, same thing. It almost sounds like one of our hummingbirds that likes to zip by in a hurry.

When I pull the arrows out of the target I take a better look at everything. Oh $#!#!!!!!

I fletched the silly things with right wing feathers, but I used the left wing fletcher…. You guessed it, brain F@%#..

Oh well, back to the fletchers…

After kicking myself in the rear I now have everything correct. Time to shoot again.

Two shots, four shots and several more show that one arrow is flying like a top, but the other still has a kick. I even try shooting from several different shooting stance. Knealing, leaning way over to the side, even climbed up on a set ladder to see if it made any difference. The only way I can get the kicking shaft to shoot clean is to short draw by over an inch. Fellows, I stumped….. I checked the spine on both shafts. I even checked the spine at 45% intervals on each shaft without seeing any differance in the two.

I’ve shot, trimed and shot more. I’ve repeated this so many times the two shafts are now only 29-15/16″ from nock groove to end of brass insert. The kick isn’t that bad, but it there and just enough I’d never put a broadhead on it.

Well looks like one of these will make the hunting arrow stack while the other is for target only….

Now it’s on to the other 10….

Troy

[Crystalshrimp]

#27567

Troy Breeding wrote: I fletched the silly things with right wing feathers, but I used the left wing fletcher…. You guessed it, brain F@%#..
Troy

man I would have blown a fuse after all that work and then. Dust yourself off and get back into the fight.

[Troy Breeding]

#27594

You pegged it dude. you can’t let a minor detail throw you around.

I’m not like some, I want give up until I expend all my possibilities. I’m also not one to think it’s supposed to be right on the first try. I’ve never used this brand of shaft and figured it would a bit of a challenge.

Troy

[Bully26]

#27598

Troy,
The archer that helps me and CS out sometimes has that problem. He will just mark his good flyers and move on. I guess when u own a shop u can do that.
I had one arrow that shot better after I pulled it through some hay bales and flattened down the fletching for some reason. I’m starting to think that shafts nor fletching are perfect then enter broadheads.
I’ve been told not to tune with broadheads but the way things are going that seems like the only next idea I can think of.
I’m going nucking futs with this tuning stuff. For now its good paper tune at 3yrds and 10yrds and how it sticks in a 3d. With all the factors its tough.
Them someone mentions nock tightness? Oh great!

[Bully26]

#27602

Oh yeah… form and release can also be an issue.
Why do we do this to ourselves?

[Troy Breeding]

#28094

Bully,

Ain’t tuning fun and exciting????:D

Like anything else, you think you have it figured out and then someone throws a wrench in the works. Don’t fight it, just use that wrench to help fix the problem. You can do alot with duct tape and wire, but at time all it really takes is the correct wrench.:lol::lol:

Troy

[Troy Breeding]

#26261

Pushing another one up.

Troy

[Author]

Posts