The Silent Arrow

[Stephen Graf]

#2694

My last post on turbulators dropped off the cliff in record time. So I hesitated to post this update. But it’s too hot to shoot, so you will have to bare it out.

Turbulator – I ended up using a 4 inch long strip of duct tape about 1/8 in wide. I tried placing the tape right at the leading edge of the fletch out to about 5/8 of an inch away. The most quiet position was between 1/4 and 3/8 inch out (leading edge of fletch to leading edge of tape). The tape holds up surprisingly well.

Fletching – I have been using 4 fletch with 70 deg / 110 deg orientation for several years now. But I learned that the 90 deg 4 fletch arrow is significantly more quiet than the other orientation. This tells me that there is a pressure differential between the unevenly spaced fletching causing the noise – and maybe other mischief.

So I have switched to the 90 deg fletching and I have gone back to 5 inch fletching. With this configuration and a turbulator wrapped about 3/8 inch (leading edge of tape to leading edge of fletch) out, my arrows are very quiet and fly really well. They seem to penetrate the target a tad better too.

I know some folks were tuning the turbulators to allow them to use less fletching. But I went the other way and did it to allow me to use more fletching. Because I need all the help I can get!

[katman]

#12026

What is the shape of the 5″ fletching? If I understand your post a 1/8″ wide and 4″ long piece of duct tape wrapped around the shaft as a turbulator, that would make a very large bump, more drag and weight. I had success with the smaller fletching stabilizing wide 2 blade broadheads when using the thin pinstripe turbulator and the 2.5″ x.5″ fletch 1/4″ in front of feather, 4@90, extremely quiet and stable flight. The advantage to the smaller fletching to me is it is less effected by water and quiet. I soaked the fletch in a bucket of water for 5 min pulled it out and shot the wide 2 blade out to 25 yds with good accuracy, did get me a bit wet at release. That smaller fletch refuses to lay down when wet without any waterproof treatment.

[Stephen Graf]

#13100

I will answer your questions if I understand them corectly:

Fletching – Shield cut

4″X1/8″ duct tape wrap – I experimented with a single wrap of tape (about an inch) all the way up to the 4 inches I settled on. The bump isn’t at all too big. What I found is that the larger I got with the “bump”, the quieter the arrow got. I even used an o-ring that was close to 1/8″ thick in front of the fletching. Truth be told, the 0-ring was the quietest arrow.

Fletch Length – I tested quietness of the 5 inch and 4 inch and 3 inch fletching with the 4 inch duct tape wrap. No difference between 5 and 4 inch. Ever so slight between 5 and 3 inch. I did notice that the arrow flight got worse with the shorter fletching if I did anything wrong (which I am apt to do). So on length, you must judge for yourself. For me, I keep absolute stable arrow flight and trade away some fletching length.

Wet Feathers – I shoot wild turkey feathers from local wild turkeys. I don’t have problems with them laying down in the rain. With that said, I rarely hunt in the rain if I can help it. So I can’t answer that. But I can recommend a product called “No Snow”. It is a water repellent that only has to be applied once to the feathers and really keeps them dry. I used it on store bought feathers and never had them lay down. In addition, when I shot the arrow through a deer, the feathers stayed clean of blood, and the arrow could simply be rinsed off and reused.

[katman]

#13215

Thanks, sounds like you put in the time to get an arrow you are confident in, good for you.

On first thought and I may be all wrong since I am not an engineer, you find the larger fletching more stable and quieter because the larger turbulator actually deflects air from the feather reducing not only noise but also stabilizing effect. I remember OL talking about breaking up the laminar flow with the turbulator and how little it takes. The one he describes actually increases the fletch ability to stabilize so less fletch is needed.

I used to use black magic tire wet for fletching and had good success with it.

I agree on not hunting in a hard rain, but a light shower and proper shot choices is OK with me.

[Mark Turton]

#13417

Hi Steve, I read a little of what Doc Ashby wrote about these but have not experimented myself, could you use a rubber ‘O’ ring and glue it into position or is the profile not sharp enough.

Mark.

[Stephen Graf]

#14190

Pothunter wrote: could you use a rubber ‘O’ ring and glue it into position or is the profile not sharp enough.
Mark.

Mark – Yes, I did use an 0-ring in the experiments (read earlier post) and I found that it was the most quiet arrow I tested, but not by much. I had no need to glue it down, as the friction of its squeeze on the shaft was enough to hold it in place.

The only negative is that if you shoot through a bale or target up to the 0-ring, it might get pulled off the arrow and stay in the target as you remove the arrow from the target.

I ended up using duct tape cause it is convenient, plentiful, and cheap.

I’m really looking forward to this season to see how the deer react to this arrow. Heck, I may shoot some blunts past a deer to see how they react to the noise…

[Stephen Graf]

#14196

katman wrote:
On first thought and I may be all wrong since I am not an engineer, you find the larger fletching more stable and quieter because the larger turbulator actually deflects air from the feather reducing not only noise but also stabilizing effect. I remember OL talking about breaking up the laminar flow with the turbulator and how little it takes. The one he describes actually increases the fletch ability to stabilize so less fletch is needed.

It would take wind tunnel tests to prove conclusively what the turbulator is doing. But it is a safe guess to say that it is tripping the air flow before it gets to the fletching. Since the feathers are not exposed to a transition from laminar to turbulent flow, there are probably fewer vortices created. Fewer vortices means more efficient fletching.

Exactly what happens really doesn’t matter. What does matter is that the turbulator improves the efficiency of the arrow and thus reduces its noise. Some people take advantage of this effect to reduce the length of their fletching. That’s fine.

For me, I decided to keep my 5 inch fletching and take advantage of an even better arrow than I had before. As Ashby would say, I want to maximize the arrow’s terminal performance…. as quietly as possible. 😀

[katman]

#14227

Steve, While your combo quieter I fail to see how you increased efficiency. 😀

[Mark Turton]

#15223

Steve, sorry I missed your earlier post, I do try to keep up but don’t turn on a computer at weekends. From memory Dr Ashby says something along the lines that the turbulator creates turbulence in the air, this then has a greater effect on the fletchings giving improved stability earlier. I guess the noise reduction is some how due to the way in which the air comes of the back of the fletching.

If my memory or interpretation is wrong I apologize, but it is something I will definitely try.

Mark.

[Stephen Graf]

#15370

katman wrote: Steve, While your combo quieter I fail to see how you increased efficiency. 😀

O.L. Adcock is credited with coming up with the turbulator. He reason for using it was to reduce the air friction on the arrow. His reasoning was proven correct as he won many shooting distance records with it.

Another way of looking at it is that noise is a form of energy. If the arrow is creating noise as it moves through the air, it is bleeding off velocity to convert it into noise. So less noise means more efficient transfer of initial energy and momentum to the terminal impact.

But really none of this matters. I was just hoping to share my experience with the turbulators and how impressive they are at reducing the sound of the arrow. It’s a low tech way to achieve a high tech result. It doesn’t cost a penny (if you have a role of tape laying around) and it’s way cool to hear the difference in your arrows 8)

Now I have to figure out if duct tape is available in any color but silver…

[Patrick]

#15538

Steve Graf wrote: Now I have to figure out if duct tape is available in any color but silver…

Heck yeah! It’s available in practically every color!

Thanks for letting us know about how this worked for ya. Good info!

[sapcut]

#15734

I am also using turbulators on my arrows in front of 4 inch nanner feathers. I am using an 1/8″ slice of arrow wrap material. Very cheap. You can make prolly 2 dozen turbulators with one wrap. I think it works fine.

I like the 4″ nanners instead of “small as I can go 4 fletch” feathers as Adcock and Ashby suggest. I have found that if you build your arrow that is flying perfectly with 2-3″ 4 feathers and turbulator you are leaving important FOC on the table.

For instance, if my arrow bareshafts and tunes perfectly with 2-3″ 4 fletch then I know I can add more weight to tip creating more FOC. Then the slightly larger 4″ nanners will stiffen the arrow just enough to allow for the increased FOC to tune perfectly. The feather weight increase might be a whopping 1-2 grains.

Then the difference in trajectory that the additional up front 50 grains USUALLY makes should be offset or flattened by the higher FOC.

I know that is “splitting hairs” but gotta get it right.

Richie

[MontanaFord]

#16071

Ok, this all sound good and fun, but I’m more of a visual person. Could somebody PLEASE!!!!????? post a picture of a turbulator so I can see what in the name of quiet arrows ya’ll are talking about???? LOL

I’d REALLY REALLY appreciate it!!!

Michael.

[sapcut]

#16103

This is the turbulator I tend to go with. It also doubles as open ring sights.
However if you’re not careful it can iduce what us aerodynamic scientists refer to as EFC or erratic flight characteristics.

[sapcut]

#16147

Below are the smaller versions of the above.

[MontanaFord]

#16246

Richie,

When you wrap your arrow, how many wraps around the shaft do you take with your material? How much of a raised spot does a person want? The thickness of a few sheets of paper? Or??

Thanks for the pictures, too.

Michael.

[sapcut]

#16249

I have only used one time around the arrow. I haven’t tried it with more but it will probably work better.

Although, I can’t remember the last time that I have heard my feathers in flight.

Richie

[Mark Turton]

#18901

Sapcut, have you considered using doughnuts:D

Mark.

[sapcut]

#18943

Actually for my elephant arrows I thought I would try a baseball bat doughnut to up the total grains a bit.:lol:

[MontanaFord]

#19356

Uh oh, looks like all seriousness just went out the window…LOL!!

Michael.

[tom-wisconsin]

#47587

I adjust the sound of my arrows by adjusting my hearing aids. Good hunting to all this year.

[Ireland]

#26462

Steve Graf wrote: My last post on turbulators dropped off the cliff in record time. So I hesitated to post this update. But it’s too hot to shoot, so you will have to bare it out.

Turbulator – I ended up using a 4 inch long strip of duct tape about 1/8 in wide. I tried placing the tape right at the leading edge of the fletch out to about 5/8 of an inch away. The most quiet position was between 1/4 and 3/8 inch out (leading edge of fletch to leading edge of tape). The tape holds up surprisingly well.

Fletching – I have been using 4 fletch with 70 deg / 110 deg orientation for several years now. But I learned that the 90 deg 4 fletch arrow is significantly more quiet than the other orientation. This tells me that there is a pressure differential between the unevenly spaced fletching causing the noise – and maybe other mischief.

So I have switched to the 90 deg fletching and I have gone back to 5 inch fletching. With this configuration and a turbulator wrapped about 3/8 inch (leading edge of tape to leading edge of fletch) out, my arrows are very quiet and fly really well. They seem to penetrate the target a tad better too.

I know some folks were tuning the turbulators to allow them to use less fletching. But I went the other way and did it to allow me to use more fletching. Because I need all the help I can get!

Steve,

Thank you so much for taking the time post the update above. I “missed it” the first time around. What a great idea and what a pleasure to find something that didn’t cost me hundreds of dollars to try. Can’t wait to go out and do some shooting with my new turbulator arrows!

Ireland

[Ed Ashby]

#26560

Steve, for years I used 75/105 four fletching but, just as you, found that 90 degree four fletching has less noise in flight. Also, the straight fletch is much quieter than helical fletching (and at the upper FOC levels, if your arrow is tuned, there’s absolutely no need whatsoever for the helical fletch).

I also find that an absolutely square cut at the feather’s back is quieter than any other profile I’ve tried; thus the absolute, right angle triangle shape of the A&A cut.

Here’s something you might try, just for interest. Set up some identical arrows with fletching of the same pattern and size, except for the shape of the fletching’s trailing edge. Try several trailing edge profiles; rounded, V-shaped; straight taper to the rear; shield cut and square cut. Now hide behind safe cover (such as around the edge of a building, or behind a really big tree) about 35 of 40 yards downrange and have someone shoot the arrows past your protected position and just listen to the difference in the sound as the arrow’s fly by. The difference in the audible sound level is astonishing.

The turbulator will increase pressure on any size (surface area) fletching, increasing the stabilizing effect. This will give the same effect as increasing fletching size (surface area).

Ed

[Stephen Graf]

#26750

Ireland wrote:
Steve,

Thank you so much for taking the time post the update above. I “missed it” the first time around. What a great idea and what a pleasure to find something that didn’t cost me hundreds of dollars to try. Can’t wait to go out and do some shooting with my new turbulator arrows!

Ireland

Your welcome! Although I can’t take credit for the turbulator, it was fun to find something to do that didn’t cost much, as you say…

So far no luck for me this year… But I have a friend that I have tutored over the last 3 years. He is using the arrows as described and has finally shot his first 2 deer with them this year 😛 He reports that the deer “didn’t jump like they did last year” So I think it is worth the effort…

[Stephen Graf]

#26752

Dr. Ed Ashby wrote:

Here’s something you might try, just for interest. Set up some identical arrows with fletching of the same pattern and size, except for the shape of the fletching’s trailing edge. Try several trailing edge profiles; rounded, V-shaped; straight taper to the rear; shield cut and square cut. … The difference in the audible sound level is astonishing.
Ed

Will do… after hunting season!!

[William Warren]

#29591

Hmmm, I wonder if some rod winding would work?

[rayborbon]

#30342

So do you think different arrow materials contribute to noise of the arrow? I’ve heard some guys make claims on this. I have never made a conclusion either way or cared to0 much. For example – I know a fellow who says the Port Orford Cedar shoot much quieter than the carbon.

[Patrick]

#30420

rayborbon wrote: So do you think different arrow materials contribute to noise of the arrow? I’ve heard some guys make claims on this. I have never made a conclusion either way or cared to0 much. For example – I know a fellow who says the Port Orford Cedar shoot much quieter than the carbon.

From my recent experience of changing to wood arrows, I’d say there’s no question about it. They are very noticeably quieter than the carbon arrows I was shooting, and the carbon arrows were heavier! Everyone noticed the difference. My thoughts are that the wood simply has more mass and wood, by its very nature, will absorb more energy when compared to either carbon or aluminum.

[MOUNTAINSLICKER]

#30870

A couple of questions on this interesting post. Would cresting paint act in the same way andor if tape was put at the leading bitter end of front of feathers would it work as well as holding ends better than a bump of glue?

[Ed Ashby]

#34791

mountainslicker wrote: Would cresting paint act in the same way andor if tape was put at the leading bitter end of front of feathers would it work as well as holding ends better than a bump of glue?

I THINK (haven’t tried it, so not certain) that a ring of creasting paint placed the same as turbulator would work IF THE THICKNESS of the paint were sufficient. It’s the abrupt ‘bump up’ and ‘drop down’ of the turbulator that creates the disruption in air flow; with the disrupted air flow increasing the pressure exerted on the fletching. If the cresting paint is just applied normally I think the tapering edges of the paint might not have the same effect though. You would probably need to tape off the area on each side before applying the paint. Removing the tape after the paint dried should then leave a ‘square edge’ to the cresting stripe. Sounds like all together too much work though.

Again, I’m not certain what effect using a tiny ‘tag’ of tape to secure the leading edge of each feather would have. Haven’t tried that either. Can’t see where it would do much more than the tiny dot of glue though. It certainly won’t replace the turbulator. You need that ‘ring’, with its stup-up and step-down, and it works best with just one narrow, single ring placed about 1/4″ forward of the fletching’s leading edge.

Ed

[David Petersen]

#34836

Ed — speaking of “step up and step down,” have you had the knee job done yet? Either way, how are you faring? Dave p

[Ed Ashby]

#35032

I’m still hanging in there. Next knee op is Nov. 4th.

Ed

[Stephen Graf]

#47959

I thought I’d give an update on my experience with the turbulators in front of deer…

I have a friend who has set his arrows up the same way I have, so we have double the data…

So far I have cast an arrow by 4 deer and seen no change in their behavior at the shot as compared to a non-turbulated arrow. My friend has done the same with 3 deer.

I was hoping to report that deer might not react so much to an arrow coming their way if it was more quiet. I cannot, Oh well.

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