The right arrow ( carbon or alluminium) for a Samick Sage, 62" 35 lbs??

[Alejandro Zubiaurre]

#131215

Hi , I am new in the forum so , My name is Alejandro ( friends call me Alejo) and Im a traditional archer.

Recently I purchased a Samick Sage, 62″, 35 lbs at 28 inches, standard.

I pull 29,5 inches of draw an actually y use Easton Gamegetter 500, in 31″, 3 x 4″ feathers and a 100 grs points w/inserts.

The fact is that : at 50 yards is all ok but at 60 and go on 80 yards is very inaccurate besause, I think, the heavy the arrow poull down it and , of couse miss the target or 3D silouette. One friend off mine offer me carbon shafts…in 500 spine but at close rage no one in the center of the target…ohhhh. So what do you thing about this??? wrong SPINE….or what??

Sorry for my english ..is not my native language. I hope do better next time.

Alejo

 

[Raymond Coffman]

#131228

Hola Alejo

Welcome to the forums —

These days I shoot mostly “instinctive”, and I havn’t shot past 30yds in yrs. Last time I released an arrow at a 80yd target was in college. So can’t give any advice on the long range questions.

Are you actually drawing 29.5 ?

According to the 3 rivers* arrow spine chart, it looks like you are near the break Over point between spines.  You might want to try a 600 spine carbon shaft. That might shoot better in your bow.

Of course – shooting at the longer ranges will magnify any mistakes in form, causing arrows to go astray.  I know it definitely would hinder my accuracy at the ranges you mentioned

Scout

* 3 rivers is an archery shop that advertises in tradbow.

[Alejandro Zubiaurre]

#131613

Hy Raymond and thanks a lot  for your time and your info about carbon arrows.

Yes pal, I´m 29,5 inches draw and yes I´m in the brake over point of spines….bad for me. But y have to púrchase a 600 spine carbon arrows and made some released at 50 an so on yards andto the alluminium arrows. I put a 175 and 200 grains points to a 500 spin carbon arrows and at closer distances goes well. So I have to try that configuration at longer distances. I send to you the results of that. Is interesting to try differents configurstions…so…we see what happens to it.

Best regards. Alejo

 

[Raymond Coffman]

#131620

Alejo

You bet – happy to help

Sounds like you are on the right track, getting your arrows tuned to the bow. Trying different spine and adjusting point weight and length to get them shooting well.

Get a copy of TJ Conrads Traditional Bowhunters Handbook it is a great guide, and I find it very helpful.

Let us know how it goes

Where do you live?

Scout

[Alejandro Zubiaurre]

#131634

Hi Scout, yes pal I do it. Ok I try to get a copy of that handbook of Conrad.

I live in Buenos Aires, Argentina and, sorry my friend for my english, is not my native language but y try to learn more.

This is a photo of the first shotting test. 3 easton gamegetter 500, cut at 30″, 100grains points, 4″ RED shield feathers…..distances 60, 70 and 80 yards. You will see the 3 arrows. you cant see the fethers of the second one but you see the arrow,  each one at the different range,  in the floor…not the 4 on the left…perfectly right in the center way…but all of these shortly in range because they drop off at the final end of trayectory. Is not bad, of course, but they dont arrive at the target….ufff…So, my friend, I will try another arrows and y will  post how it goes.

[Alejandro Zubiaurre]

#131635

Have a nice day Scout and thanks a lot for all.

Alejo.

[Ptaylor]

#131646

Hi Alejandro. From my experience a 35# recurve-center shot bow should shoot a full length 1816 aluminum shaft pretty well. for comparison to carbon arrows, a 1916 aluminum shaft would be equal to a 600 spine carbon. So 1816s are even weaker than the 600 spine carbons you tried.

Spine is going to affect your arrow flight. But if you’re only issue is the arrows are dropping low before hitting the target…well then just aim higher…haha!

[Alejandro Zubiaurre]

#131649

Hi, Ptaylor…ok I understand…but I try the  3Rivers archery Spine calculator and…seems to not working the 1816 in full length..see the pic. Both , the dinamic spin and the bow spin are not equals.

The 1916 cuted at 29″..seems better.

And the 2016….cutted at 30.5″…looks good…

Yes pal I try …”well then just aim higher…haha!”

Thanks a lot Ptaylor

[Alejandro Zubiaurre]

#131650

[Alejandro Zubiaurre]

#131651

[Ptaylor]

#131658

I’m not sure what to make of the computer spine calculator. I’ve never used them prior to shooting an arrow from a bow. I have figured out which arrow flies well from a specific bow, then plugged that data into the spine calculator and sometimes it came out close but sometimes not. I prefer real world testing of arrows to figure out what works best. The folks at 3Rivers know what they’re doing, so maybe I’m using it wrong.

I worked at an archery shop and set up, tested, sold, explained how to use dozens of recurves. Most of the customers were new or young people, so we interacted with bows in range of 15-40 pounds mostly. Here’s a general guide for the arrows we set up with each bow package (modern recurve bow, centershot, takedowns):

20-30# bow got 1716s

30-35# bow got 1816s

40-45# bow got 1916s, aka .600

45-55# bow got 2016s, aka .500

That’s all measured @28″, so as you know you pull 29.5″ and that could bump a 35# bow up to using 1916s.

I’d say if you have an arrow set up that flies well, then stick with it. Remember, spine mainly affects an arrow in the horizontal plane, not so much the trajectory, especially shooting close. Have fun!

[Raymond Coffman]

#131661

Hola Alejo

P taylor did a great job on spine info for you. I have not used the spine calculator either. Would have to study it and then get back with any thoughts on the best way to use it.  As p taylor said in closing once you find a arrow that flies well – use it.

At the ranges involved(60 -80 yds), I don’t think you will get an arrow, even playing with different weights, to fly significantly flatter than another. With any arrow, you will have to adjust your hold/ aim to hit the longer targets. This is especially true with a lighter weight bow.

Maybe one of the tournament archers could weigh in and give some advice for shooting/ tackle at the longer ranges. I don’t know if Jason Westbrock checks in here anymore or not? He just did a nice article on buck fever recently.

Can you hunt in Argentina with a bow? I have a number of friends who gun hunted there in the past. They all said they enjoyed the country and the people immensely. I have it on my places to go list.

 

Scout

[Alejandro Zubiaurre]

#131718

If Ptaylor, I also used your system so far. Try which arrow was better in my arc, but this time it occurred to me to use the spin calculator of 3Rivers archery and that made me have many doubts. Thank you very much for your work in the types of bow, it is very correct and I appreciate your effort. In fact, the arrows that best fly are those of spine 600, that is, 1916 and those that follow would be those of spin 500, that is, 2016 but of total length. I thank all those who participate in this debate, I think, it makes us grow more as archers and as friends. I appreciate the effort of all of you because here, in Argentina, it is difficult to get material related to archery and more with traditional archery.
Many of you, Ptaylor, and I will do more tests and I will comment on them. Greetings to you

[Alejandro Zubiaurre]

#131719

Hello Scout, if it is true the work that Ptaylor did is very good, excellent I would say. I always competed, until two years ago, with compound bows, but now I passes to the veterans category, in I.F.A.A. and change the type of bow to compete. Now I compete as bow hunter recurve, veteran category, that is to say at the maximum distance, 80 yards.  I buy my Samick Sage, an excellent bow for the price and good performance, simple to maintain and comfortable to pull. My brace is 29.5 “and that’s the problem, I’m right in the transition zone between the two spin, so I have to play a lot with the weight of the tip and the length of the arrow and will try to use short feathers to maximize speed. The other competitors use carbon arrows Easton Axis, Easton Speedlight, Gold Tip Traditional, which give them good results at long distance but not so good at short distances. Carbon arrows bounce a lot in the rest of the traditional bow, which does not happen with the aluminum ones.
Yes Scout, in Argentina you can hunt with bow, there is a good variety of animals to hunt from boars to deer. Notify me when you decide to come, it would be very interesting to share a hunt with a traditional bowhunter friend. Greetings, Scout and good arrows (so we say). Alejo.Redfoxhunter

[Raymond Coffman]

#131737

Hola Alejo

It sounds like you have been shooting in the matches well, and for some time to achieve a veteran rating . Congratulations.

Varying tip weight and length of arrow should get you tuned up, especially in the transition zone.

Most of the serious target bows I have seen, use an elevated target rest. Have you tried one of these on your Samick Sage ? Might alleviate the bouncing problem with some of the arrows you mentioned.

If I ever get to Argentina I will definitely try to get together with you. Thanks for the invite. If you ever get to New Mexico I would be happy to visit with you likewise.

Good arrows

Scout

 

[Alejandro Zubiaurre]

#131746

Hello Scout … Yes the idea of putting a rest and a plunger is in my plans, but first I want to finish the tests without the rest. Eventually I will have to place it to avoid the bounce of the arrow in the bow and try to get better results.
Thank you very much for all the help you have  provided to me, for me it is invaluable and  your and the other menbers friendship and good predisposition is even more so.
Surely we will see you some day either in New Mexico or here in Argentina. A big hug and see you. Thank you. Alejo

[Alejandro Zubiaurre]

#131825

Hi Scout..here Me against…ajajaja…and , pal I do the modification you suggested. I find in my tackle archery box, a Bear rest..that it was from another bow and I put it to the Samick, I re-made the nocking point on the string and I took it to my school to try, previously I made some shots in the back of my house to see what was happening and … Ohhhh … incredible. .no, could give credit to what had happened. All the carbon arrows flew perfectly well. Then I did the test at 20 yards in my club-school and … they also behaved in the same way … INCREDIBLE. Now I have to finish understanding what happened. I have an idea of ​​how the spin of the arrow was corrected with the rest, as you suggested to me. I am so happy and I send you photos of comparison of the  ones done to 10 yards and  to 20 yards. Use to compare Easton Tribute 1916 cut to 30 inches with 100 grains  points and Easton Powerflight 500 total length with points also of 100 grains and all with feathers of 4 “Gateway..very resistant, by the way.I want to share the photos because this experience it can serve other archers and I believe, without fear of making mistakes, that this is the way of the forum and I am very happy about that.Thanks a lot Scout…Im so happy. Best regards.  Alejo

[Raymond Coffman]

#131794

Hola Alejo

You bet. Glad I could help, or at least give some positive reinforcement.

Let us know how it finishes – send some pics of the final set up when you get those arrows grouping center at 80 !

Good arrows

Scout

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